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Who is to blame for not putting people back to work !!

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
- Congressional Republicans are far less significant in the Trump v Democrats standoff.

They dominate the Senate and approved the original budget agreed to by the democrats, and in the house of representatives voted with the democrats to support the original budget.

- I've no agenda for Trump personally.

You voted for him, and your posts reflect an agenda and a bias against the Democrats.

- I advocate policies & actions, ie, results.
- I don't care which side "wins" this battle, so long as we return to normal operation.

Based on your record and agenda you still blame the Democrats.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
They dominate the Senate and approved the original budget agreed to by the democrats, and in the house of representatives voted with the democrats to support the original budget.
No argument there.
But this standoff is between Trump & the Democrats.
I expect that if those 2 craft a solution, the Republicans will go along.
You voted for him, and your posts reflect an agenda and a bias against the Democrats.
I wonder about my leftish friends.
So many decry my bias (sometimes incorrectly).
Do you & they believe you are without bias?
We all have one.

You favor Dems, & oppose Trump, Republicans, & his voters.
I don't point out yours because it's obvious & irrelevant.
In this case, I'm biased toward settling the dispute.
I don't care which side claims a win.
Based on your record and agenda you still blame the Democrats.
Based upon your record, you should read more thoroughly.
(Remember that you once thought that I was a creationist, based upon my posts.)
(Btw, I'm a life long atheist, & consider evolution to be fact, not only a theory.)
I've been blaming Trump also.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Blaming the Democrats for this is like blaming a man's face from being in the way of a punch.

The reality is there was an agreement, but then the likes of President Coulter vetoed that and convinced you-know-who that he was being too small handed.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Haven't read the thread but I thought I should post something right away:

The President offered in exchange for a wall to extend staying in our country to hundreds of thousands of people whom he could not afford to evict from it anyway. Not much in the art of the deal Mr. Trump.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Blaming the Democrats for this is like blaming a man's face from being in the way of a punch.

The reality is there was an agreement, but then the likes of President Coulter vetoed that and convinced you-know-who that he was being too small handed.
The analogy breaks down when both sides are
punching bystanders (taxpayers & gov workers).
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
No argument there.
But this standoff is between Trump & the Democrats.
I expect that if those 2 craft a solution, the Republicans will go along.

Yes it takes two but you have not admitted that tRump demands a one way deal, his way or the highway no room for negotiations.

I wonder about my leftish friends.
So many decry my bias (sometimes incorrectly).
Do you & they believe you are without bias?
We all have one.

I very much admit my biases. I cannot speak for anyone else. I very much decry extreme biases, and a religious agenda of the core of his support as evangelical Christians, which is how he got elected

You favor Dems, & oppose Trump, Republicans, & his voters.
I don't point out yours because it's obvious & irrelevant.
In this case, I'm biased toward settling the dispute.
I don't care which side claims a win.

Your posts reflect you definitely do care. Your name calling and false generalizations reflect that.

Actually I like McCain, and I am more the middle of the road from a moderate politically active moderate Republican family with a previous Republican Congressman, my uncle.. No place for us now in the Republican Party. I am registered Independent.

Based upon your record, you should read more thoroughly.
(Remember that you once thought that I was a creationist, based upon my posts.)
(Btw, I'm a life long atheist, & consider evolution to be fact, not only a theory.)

It is possible we both have made unwarranted assumption of the other.


I've been blaming Trump also.

Not very often. In this post your leaning extreme right crowded with fundamentalist Christians.
 

TheresOnlyNow

The Mind Is Everything. U R What U Think
No, please, do not visit the man at his house. For Frank's Sake...

Anyway, an extended shutdown mostly effects Democrats, since they're most of the employed government workers. [/quote]Please provide proof of the bold part of your assertion .
 

TheresOnlyNow

The Mind Is Everything. U R What U Think
TIME 1/22/2019: These Are the 16 Democrats Who Opposed Ending the Shutdown

But not everyone was on board with the plan.

Sixteen senators who caucus with the Democrats and two Republicans voted against the plan to end the shutdown. Among Democrats, the defections were largely over concern that McConnell’s promise was not solid enough grounds.

(Sic)"...“I am deeply disappointed that today’s outcome fails to protect Dreamers. They deserve better from the elected leaders of the only country many of them have ever called home,” Gillibrand said after the vote. “I want to see the government re-open as much as anyone, but this bill fails to fix the moral issue we must solve. That’s why I voted against it.”"
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Yes it takes two but you have not admitted that tRump demands a one way deal, his way or the highway no room for negotiations.
There's nothing to admit....I'm not privy to their discussions.
I know only that both sides have made demands unacceptable to the other.
And I don't know which is just an initial bargaining position or which is non-negotiable.

Both sides are willing to do great damage to the country in order to win.
Is that something I should challenge you to admit?
I very much admit my biases. I cannot speak for anyone else. I very much decry extreme biases, and a religious agenda of the core of his support as evangelical Christians, which is how he got elected
He also won election because his opposition is a corrupt big government hawk.
One should be careful not to judge Trump's voters solely by what you dislike
about us. Many of us are very not Christian.
We tire of the same old same old presented to us....more wars, more taxes,
more regulation, more imperious politicians who imagine themselves royalty.
Trump was a loose cannon who offered the possibility of change for the better.
Your posts reflect you definitely do care. Your name calling and false generalizations reflect that.
What name calling offended you...is it that I regularly label Trump a "boor"?
But this is ironic, coming from the guy who spells Donald's last name as "tRump".

Note:
I don't care for your repeated dishonest claims about me.
But I'd have not even mentioned it, had you not invited me to make it personal.

You should try just responding to posts, & not attacking the poster.
Things are more peaceful when just discussing issues.
Actually I like McCain, and I am more the middle of the road from a moderate politically active moderate Republican family with a previous Republican Congressman, my uncle.. No place for us now in the Republican Party. I am registered Independent.
I'm from a family of Democrats.
I voted against McCain because he too was another big government hawk.
He was big on tax & spend, but on civil liberty.
It is possible we both have made unwarranted assumption of the other.
I assume that you believe what you post.
Is this unwarranted?
Not very often. In this post your leaning extreme right crowded with fundamentalist Christians.
Yes, I'm a typical Christian fundie in that I've always supported....
- Legal abortion without restriction
- Legal gay marriage
- Legal prostitution
- Transgender use of any bathroom they darn well please.
- Separation of church & state.
- Science in the classroom, not religion.
- Evolution is indisputable fact.
- Get their God off of our money, & out of the pledge.
- Stop the war on Islam.
- Stop the War On Drugs.
- Stop propping up Israel & its atrocities & theft.
- End tax subsidies for churches.
- End legal protections for sexually abusive clergy.
- End religious oaths in government.

If you believe that the above positions are fundamentalist
Christian, then perhaps you don't know them (or me) at all.
It can be confusing.
I find common ground with liberals & conservatives, fundies
& heathens, Democrats & Republicans, capitalists & socialists.
It all depends upon the issue or goal under discussion.
So about labeling....
If one must do it, thoughtfulness is necessary.
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Yes, I'm a typical Christian fundie in that I've always supported....
- Legal abortion without restriction
- Legal gay marriage
- Legal prostitution
- Transgender use of any bathroom they darn well please.
- Separation of church & state.
- Science in the classroom, not religion.
- Evolution is indisputable fact.
- Get their God off of our money, & out of the pledge.
- Stop the war on Islam.
- Stop the War On Drugs.
- Stop propping up Israel & its atrocities & theft.
- End tax subsidies for churches.
- End legal protections for sexually abusive clergy.
- End religious oaths in government.

If you believe that the above positions are fundamentalist
Christian, then perhaps you don't know them (or me) at all.
It can be confusing.
I find common ground with liberals & conservatives, fundies
& heathens, Democrats & Republicans, capitalists & socialists.
It all depends upon the issue or goal under discussion.
So about labeling....
If one must do it, thoughtfulness is necessary.

Contradiction here, President tRump did not support any of these beliefs, yet you voted for him. He also believes in big corporate and military government in his own image.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Contradiction here, President tRump did not support any of these beliefs, yet you voted for him. He also believes in big corporate and military government in his own image.
Odd...you objected to name calling.
But again you call him "tRump".
When is name calling OK....only when you do it?

Selecting a candidate to vote for means weighing various traits.
One favors some, & opposes others.
Whom did you vote for....did you agree with every trait, value & agenda?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Odd...you objected to name calling.
But again you call him "tRump".
When is name calling OK....only when you do it?

Your name calling was generalizing stereotype. Mine is for an individual, which I think is fully justified based on his behavior.

Selecting a candidate to vote for means weighing various traits.
One favors some, & opposes others.
Whom did you vote for....did you agree with every trait, value & agenda?

The problem is tRump campaign reflected an opposition to everything you opposed.

The block support of evangelical Christians for tRump is well documented, and won him him many states to win the electorial vote, but alas lost the popular vote by the largest margin in history of a president who won by electorial vote. This support reflects those that support him in the Congress, and ALL his cabinet. The evangelical Christian support was based on the pledge to select evangelical Christians who oppose abortion, and they got what they voted for.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Your name calling was generalizing stereotype. Mine is for an individual, which I think is fully justified based on his behavior.
Convenient.
The problem is tRump campaign reflected an opposition to everything you opposed.

The block support of evangelical Christians for tRump is well documented, and won him him many states to win the electorial vote, but alas lost the popular vote by the largest margin in history of a president who won by electorial vote. This support reflects those that support him in the Congress, and ALL his cabinet. The evangelical Christian support was based on the pledge to select evangelical Christians who oppose abortion, and they got what they voted for.
Look who's over-generalizing now.
Btw, his USSC justice nominations haven't been as anti-abortion as you predicted.

Hey, I listed what I advocate.
Do you disagree with any?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Convenient.

Look who's over-generalizing now.
Btw, his USSC justice nominations haven't been as anti-abortion as you predicted.

Hey, I listed what I advocate.
Do you disagree with any?

I believe they evangelical Christians and are.anti-abortion. How they vote when when the cases coming up will be interesting.

My opinion does not mean much, but tRump opposes your list.
 
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