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Who Satan Really Is

Yanni

Active Member
So who is Satan? Well, I've heard some say Satan is the "root of all evil." I've also heard people say Satan is a fallen angel who is the arch enemy of God. Let's stop and give it some thought. The only way Satan could become the arch enemy of God is if God created angles with free will. And, if God is the Almighty and Everlasting God, Creator and Sustainer of the entire universe, then doesn't He have the power to just destroy Satan just by saying Satan should cease to exist? Isn't God perfect? Well, Orthodox Judaism believes that God is perfect, and that angels do NOT have free will. (To side track, Jewish tradition believes that humans are even greater than angels, precisely because we have free will and the power to decide whether we serve God properly and earn eternal reward, or to disobey God and get punished. Angels don't have the ability to earn eternal reward, and they therefore only exist for their particular missions that God commands them to do. This is very difficult to explain, but angels are merely a representation of the Divine will). If that's the case, then who is Satan?
The answer to this question is easy to comprehend and beautiful for those who truly wish to believe it. Angels do not have free will. Angels perform certain tasks that God commands them to perform (we won't get into the details). Satan was also given a task (and he is one heck of a master at what he does). Satan's task is to test us humans with difficult passions, cravings, and pleasures that ultimately disconnect ourselves from God and spiritual strivings by giving in too much to this world. This world is not the only existence. After we die, we go to a much better place. But what we earn in that much better place depends on how we behaved in this world. The simple understanding of is that Satan's task is to try to make us sin. However, that is not entirely accurate. According to Orthodox Judaism, when Satan says "sin," he's really saying "DON'T sin and let me see you become great by passing my test." This is mind boggling! Everyone has assumed that Satan is evil. No. What Satan presents to us is evil; all he's doing is carrying out his mission in giving us humans the opportunities for real spiritual growth. Human beings have natural tendencies and cravings, just like animals. What really makes us great is when we transform ourselves from an animal being to a spiritual being; we transform our bodies into holy beings. It is precisely overcoming our natural tendencies and instead to do the will of God that gains us the eternal benefits that we all desire.
One may ask, "Well, if Satan is not the cause of all evil, then how come bad things happen in the world (like illness, crime, natural disasters, terrorism, etc.). How can God, Who is perfectly good, allow such things to happen?"
The answer is not easy, but God truly is the ultimate Source of all goodness. But when bad things happen, we tend to lose our faith for a slight moment. Why? Because we can't perceive God as being bad. It must be Satan is the one who did it. No. What we perceive (with our limited human intelligence) to be bad is really part of God's Master Plan for the world. Whatever happens to a person is for his/her ultimate benefit. Although we may not see the good now, sometime later, the goodness will be revealed, either later in life through some insight into past and present events, or when we leave this world and heaven tells us the goodness. If we view the events in our lives that way, that Satan is really (quietly) cheering us on to overcome his tests, then life becomes much more beautiful. The reason why God allows bad things to happen sometimes is not about Him being angry and a God Who likes to punish. God wants everyone to earn the most pleasurable thing imaginable: basking in His Glory in the World to Come. We can't understand what that means, but the Sages say that one moment in the World to Come is more pleasurable than all the pleasures ever since the creation of the world placed into a bottle. God wants us to enjoy that, but not if we aren't first cleansed of our sins.
I hope this has given you an insight into the role Satan plays in Orthodox Judaism, and I hope my explanations can help give meaning to those in search for it.
 
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HiddenDjinn

Well-Known Member
It's My Birthday!
Yanni,
Do yourself a favor, and read the DIR before posting. This has already been discussed, ad nauseum.
 

Zardoz

Wonderful Wizard
Premium Member
Thank you for the post. Yes, it's been discussed before, but I like this part:

...that Satan is really (quietly) cheering us on to overcome his tests,...

That reminded me of my Rebbi teaching on the subject, he told us that Ha Satan actually is pleased when we overcome his challenges. Of all the angels, he knows us best, as that is required for proper performance of his task. The angels don't actually like Man very much, as we know. Strange that the angel who is hated most by man might also be the angel that has the most pity on man.

I myself have quite often tried to explain these very points in various threads, however I stopped when one Xian raised that old antisemitic accusation of Jews being 'in league' with Satan, and that was the reason why I was 'praising' Satan. Some things, there is no point in trying to explain to them. This is one of them I think, the so-called 'rebellion of angels' is too much part of their world view for them to even listen.

Shalom
 

Yanni

Active Member
Elmarna, I'm just curious. Does Muslim doctrine say that Satan is "against" God or that Satan works for God (similar to the way I described he does above)?
 

NeedingGnosisNow

super-human
I got into Gnosticism because I didn't agree with mainstream Christianity, but I'm starting to see that Judaism is awesome. I'm definitely going to have to do more research!
 

dantech

Well-Known Member
Satan is indeed the root of all evil. He is also an enemy to Israel as he is the one who pushes us towards our sins. However, he was indeed created by G-D with a purpose. So bottom line, he is following G-Ds will. To say that he doesn't want us to sin? That I am not too sure of and would like the source of it if you don't mind. I have read countless times in Midrashim and Gemarot that Mekoubalim who interacted with Satan would call him RASHA! Moshe Rabeinu even blinded him when he was sent to take his Neshama. I read that Moshe sent him away specifically asking for G-D to bury him and escort his neshama to Olam Haemet.

I also read of a "judgement day" in which Satan was laughing and was happy when G-D was judging the Neshama of the person that deceased because he was reliving all his sins and that made him happy...

So I am not sure as to say whether or not he is indeed Evil or not because of the reasons you mentioned. I would really like to know the source so I could read up on it please.
 

peepalala

New Member
Thank you for the post. Yes, it's been discussed before, but I like this part:



That reminded me of my Rebbi teaching on the subject, he told us that Ha Satan actually is pleased when we overcome his challenges. Of all the angels, he knows us best, as that is required for proper performance of his task. The angels don't actually like Man very much, as we know. Strange that the angel who is hated most by man might also be the angel that has the most pity on man.

I myself have quite often tried to explain these very points in various threads, however I stopped when one Xian raised that old antisemitic accusation of Jews being 'in league' with Satan, and that was the reason why I was 'praising' Satan. Some things, there is no point in trying to explain to them. This is one of them I think, the so-called 'rebellion of angels' is too much part of their world view for them to even listen.

Shalom
this part is really nice i too like this part of the post ,
 

CDWolfe

Progressive Deist
One may ask, "Well, if Satan is not the cause of all evil, then how come bad things happen in the world (like illness, crime, natural disasters, terrorism, etc.). How can God, Who is perfectly good, allow such things to happen?"
The answer is not easy...

Actually the answer is very easy, and you even went over it yourself. Bad things happen because human beings, who have FREE WILL, make the choice to do bad things, plain and simple. If God interferes, then it is no longer free will.
 

dantech

Well-Known Member
May I ask if you are the same person who posted this (posted elsewhere back in June 2011)?
Hmm possibly, but I don't think you're going to get an answer. I haven't seen Yanni write anything on here in quite a while. I think since 2011

The things the people answered on that forum....:facepalm:
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Actually the answer is very easy, and you even went over it yourself. Bad things happen because human beings, who have FREE WILL, make the choice to do bad things, plain and simple. If God interferes, then it is no longer free will.

10. Discuss Individual Religions Forums/Same Faith Debates/"Only Sections"
The DIR subforums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.

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Flankerl

Well-Known Member
10. Discuss Individual Religions Forums/Same Faith Debates/"Only Sections"
The DIR subforums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.

-For any DIR or discussion sub-forum that is colored blue, non-members of that area are limited only to respectful questions, and are not allowed to make any non-question posts.


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