Who Was Baha’u’llah, and How Can We Evaluate His Claims?

[Spirit of Light]

Careful with that irony, it burns.
As I have already explained to you multiple times, I completely understand what she (and you) believes, and why. I am simply pointing out the errors and contradictions in the arguments used to support those beliefs.
Hope this helped.

You are the one who should be careful

 

[Trailblazer]

No, it would settle this argument - the one about whether or not I made the claim that you insist I made, and that is illustrated in many places on this thread.

No, it would not settle it because you would deny everything I pointed out, argue and say I am wrong.

"I am not stupid" means this is not my first rodeo. I have been posting to atheists for nine years on various forums and most atheists employ similar tactics.

 

[KWED]

The answer could be that @Trailblazer do not understand everything Baha'u'llah teaching, and by that do not agree fully, it could also mean she struggle to understand why God gives her so much hardships throughout her life.

She said "I do not agree with everything Baha'u'llah wrote"
Not "I don't understand it" or "It makes no sense to me" - although both of those are reasonable conditions under which to question the validity of the original claims.

As a believer it take time even years to comprehend everything within the teaching.
Doubt is a part of being a human being.

If you are assuming that any problematic issue will necessarily be solved in favour of supporting belief, then any resolution is tainted by confirmation bias and question begging. It is not a rational approach.

 

[Trailblazer]

You keep claiming that Bahaullah was infallible, but you can't give a reason for claiming this other than Bahaullah himself claiming he as infallible.

Baha'u'llah did not claim to be infallible.
I added 2 + 4 and got 4.
There is no point explaining how I did the math. It is late here and I should not even still be up!

 

[Spirit of Light]

She said "I do not agree with everything Baha'u'llah wrote"
Not "I don't understand it" or "It makes no sense to me" - although both of those are reasonable conditions under which to question the validity of the original claims.

If you are assuming that any problematic issue will necessarily be solved in favour of supporting belief, then any resolution is tainted by confirmation bias and question begging. It is not a rational approach.

Spiritual practice isn't a clear cut road, its not 100% that we will find all the answers we seeking. There will always be new insight and understanding no matter how long we practice and believe. But faith make us stronger

 

[Trailblazer]

She said "I do not agree with everything Baha'u'llah wrote"
Not "I don't understand it" or "It makes no sense to me" - although both of those are reasonable conditions under which to question the validity of the original claims.

No, I did not say what you quoted above.
I said:
I do not have to agree or disagree, I can say "I don't know."
I do not necessarily disagree but I 'question' whether God is all-loving.

#1403 Trailblazer, Yesterday at 2:11 PM

 

[KWED]

It is God's word because Baha'u'llah speaks for God. That is the only way I can know God's will.

So, just blindly following dogma.
*flip*
Which you insist that you don't do
*flop*

Religion is based upon beliefs, not facts. Religious laws are not facts because facts can be proven. It is my personal opinion which is the same as my belief.

Is it a "fact" that a god exists and Bahaullah was his messenger, or just your "opinion"?

When it comes to matters of sexual behavior, modern society is morally bankrupt.

Why is it "morally bankrupt"?
Rational explanations please, not just "It goes against god's word".

Having sex only in marriage has many obvious and quantifiable social and personal benefits.
I could not even begin to list them all. Adultery, broken families, divorces are the result of sex out of wedlock...
86% of women who have abortions are unmarried women. The list goes on.

What you are describing is abusive, selfish and neglectful behaviour. That happens in marriages as well.
Did you know that 100% of divorced people used to be married?

Is a stable, committed, life-long, monogamous, loving relationship between two unmarried people "immoral".
Is two unmarried people meeting, clicking, having a one night-stand (using protection) never to meet again, with no lasting effect other than great memories, "immoral"?
If so, why?

 

[KWED]

@Trailblazer isn't lying at all.

Unfortunately, it seems like they might be.
They made a specific accusation about me.
I challenged it.
They claimed that there is lots of clear evidence all over the thread.
They repeated this but also repeatedly refuse to provide any evidence to support it.

So, the only reasonable conclusions are:
A) They are making it up, or
B) They are delusional.

However, now you have made a positive claim in support of them, perhaps you can show us where these posts are?
(Let me guess, it's not your responsibility to support your own claims?)

 

[KWED]

You are the one who should be careful

 

[KWED]

No, it would not settle it because you would deny everything I pointed out, argue and say I am wrong.

If you point to a post where I stay (as you claim I have) that "an opinion I agree with becomes fact", then I would have to admit I was wrong and concede your point.
That's how debate works!

"I am not stupid" means this is not my first rodeo. I have been posting to atheists for nine years on various forums and most atheists employ similar tactics.

What, like asking you to support your claims? I would hope they do!

 

[Spirit of Light]

Unfortunately, it seems like they might be.
They made a specific accusation about me.
I challenged it.
They claimed that there is lots of clear evidence all over the thread.
They repeated this but also repeatedly refuse to provide any evidence to support it.

So, the only reasonable conclusions are:
A) They are making it up, or
B) They are delusional.

However, now you have made a positive claim in support of them, perhaps you can show us where these posts are?
(Let me guess, it's not your responsibility to support your own claims?)

All i said was @Trailblazer isn't lying.
That is how I see it.
There can be time she has given answers that to her knowledge was given in good faith, but when she gained more wisdom was able to give a better answer.
Still its not lying.

 

[KWED]

Spiritual practice isn't a clear cut road, its not 100% that we will find all the answers we seeking. There will always be new insight and understanding no matter how long we practice and believe. But faith make us stronger

So again, you assume that any "new insight and understanding" with strengthen your faith, not weaken it.

As I said, "confirmation bias and question begging. It is not a rational approach."

Both of you seem blissfully unaware that you often argue against your own positions.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So again, you assume that any "new insight and understanding" with strengthen your faith, not weaken it.

As I said, "confirmation bias and question begging. It is not a rational approach."

Both of you seem blissfully unaware that you often argue against your own positions.

Yes, new insight strenghten my faith in God because I see God's message clearer

 

[KWED]

No, I did not say what you quoted above.
I said:
I do not have to agree or disagree, I can say "I don't know."
I do not necessarily disagree but I 'question' whether God is all-loving.

#1403 Trailblazer, Yesterday at 2:11 PM

Here we go again.
"I do not agree with or fully understand everything Baha'u'llah wrote"
#1376

This is what happens when you keep changing your position to suit the circumstances. You forget what you said previously.

 

[KWED]

All i said was @Trailblazer isn't lying.
That is how I see it.

But you must have based that position on something. What was it? Wishful thinking?

There can be time she has given answers that to her knowledge was given in good faith, but when she gained more wisdom was able to give a better answer.

She made a specific accusation about something I said. She has refused to provide and evidence to support that accusation, despite repeatedly claiming that the evidence is "everywhere on this thread".
That has nothing to do with "good faith" or "gaining wisdom".

Still its not lying.

On what do you base that claim? The only rational conclusions seem to be making it up or imagining it.

 

[KWED]

Yes, new insight strenghten my faith in God because I see God's message clearer

As I said, "confirmation bias and question begging. It is not a rational approach."

However, you seem happy with that approach - but it is highly ironic that you accuse me of "never understand or want to accept".

 

[Spirit of Light]

But you must have based that position on something. What was it? Wishful thinking?

She made a specific accusation about something I said. She has refused to provide and evidence to support that accusation, despite repeatedly claiming that the evidence is "everywhere on this thread".
That has nothing to do with "good faith" or "gaining wisdom".

On what do you base that claim? The only rational conclusions seem to be making it up or imagining it.

I base my view of @Trailblazer from what I have spoken with her my self.

Wisdom in spiritual practice comes from when we change our way of living toward what the teaching speak about, when we experience the teaching in our daily life.

 

[Spirit of Light]

As I said, "confirmation bias and question begging. It is not a rational approach."

However, you seem happy with that approach - but it is highly ironic that you accuse me of "never understand or want to accept".

You base your belief on scientific rationally. Spiritual lifestyle base understanding out from faith and understanding of the teaching

 

[KWED]

I base my view of @Trailblazer from what I have spoken with her my self.

That makes no sense.

Wisdom in spiritual practice comes from when we change our way of living toward what the teaching speak about, when we experience the teaching in our daily life.

Does that include making stuff up about other people in an attempt to score points in a debate?

 

[KWED]

You base your belief on scientific rationally.

Oxymoron. There is no "belief" in "scientific rationality". If a position is supported by evidence and rational argument, there is no need for faith.

Spiritual lifestyle base understanding out from faith and understanding of the teaching

What is a "spiritual lifestyle"?
Presumably your lifestyle is mostly "scientific rationality" regarding food, clothing, shelter, communication, travel, medicine, etc.
So, where does the "spiritual" element come in?