Who Was Baha’u’llah, and How Can We Evaluate His Claims?

[Spirit of Light]

That makes no sense.

Does that include making stuff up about other people in an attempt to score points in a debate?

I am not here to score points or be liked. Only here to share my understanding of the topic in discussion or debate.

If you or others don't like my answers or my views that isn't something I worry about.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Oxymoron. There is no "belief" in "scientific rationality". If a position is supported by evidence and rational argument, there is no need for faith.

What is a "spiritual lifestyle"?
Presumably your lifestyle is mostly "scientific rationality" regarding food, clothing, shelter, communication, travel, medicine, etc.
So, where does the "spiritual" element come in?

The spiritual come from using the teachings from scriptures to find a better way of living according to what God ask of me. To change the way of thinking from only seeing physical world to see the existence outside of the physical realm.

 

[KWED]

If you or others don't like my answers or my views that isn't something I worry about.

Once again, your responses and comments, including repeated demands that we respect your views, suggests otherwise.

 

[KWED]

The spiritual come from using the teachings from scriptures

Which scriptures?

to find a better way of living according to what God ask of me.

God asks a lot of different stuff, depending on which scriptures you choose - and some of it is pretty unpleasant. But you have previously admitted that you cherry-pick scriptures to suit your desired outcome, so I guess that's one way of avoiding the unpleasantness.

To change the way of thinking from only seeing physical world to see the existence outside of the physical realm.

How do you know there is anything outside the physical realm? There is certainly no evidence for any of the supernatural claims of scriptures. What makes you think it isn't all just in yours and others imagination?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Once again, your responses and comments, including repeated demands that we respect your views, suggests otherwise.

Nope, I demand nothing.

 

[KWED]

Nope, I demand nothing.

Suggestion, expectation, request, hope, whatever. You still seem somewhat concerned by what others have to say about not only your beliefs, but the beliefs of others.

 

[Trailblazer]

By believing that some of god's word is wrong, you are negating the whole concept of an infallible god.

(I predict something along the lines of... "I don't think he's wrong, I just disagree with him")

I did not say that some of God's word is wrong...
I don't think He's wrong, I think I am wrong when I disagree with him.

 

[Trailblazer]

So, just blindly following dogma.
*flip*
Which you insist that you don't do
*flop*

I do not blindly follow dogma since I do not follow dogma at all....I follow the Writings of Baha'u'llah. The Writings of Baha'u'llah are not dogma, they are the Word of God.

Dogma is man-made rules, Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God, divine and human.

dogma: a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.
dogma definition - Google Search

Is it a "fact" that a god exists and Bahaullah was his messenger, or just your "opinion"?

It is a religious belief that God exists and Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God.
It is not a fact because it cannot be proven and facts can be proven.

fact
something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:
fact

Why is it "morally bankrupt"?
Rational explanations please, not just "It goes against god's word".

That is my opinion and it is also my religious belief.
No explanation I have would be rational to you so why would I waste my time?

What you are describing is abusive, selfish and neglectful behaviour. That happens in marriages as well.
Did you know that 100% of divorced people used to be married?

That is a red herring because we were not talking about what sometimes happens in marriage, we were talking about having sex outside of wedlock.

Adultery is sex out of wedlock and adultery is the cause of many divorces.

Is a stable, committed, life-long, monogamous, loving relationship between two unmarried people "immoral".
Is two unmarried people meeting, clicking, having a one night-stand (using protection) never to meet again, with no lasting effect other than great memories, "immoral"?
If so, why?

It is immoral in the sense that it does not conform to God's standards of morality.
I do not need any other reasons.

BTW, I held this same opinion before I became a Baha'i and started to believe in God.
Before I became a Baha'i and after that I never had sex out of wedlock even though I had many opportunities. I just knew it was wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

They made a specific accusation about me.
I challenged it.
They claimed that there is lots of clear evidence all over the thread.
They repeated this but also repeatedly refuse to provide any evidence to support it.

So, the only reasonable conclusions are:
A) They are making it up, or
B) They are delusional.

No, the reasonable explanation I gave is that I am in no way responsible to find the evidence and present it just because I said it was there.

I made no claim, I just made an observation. If anyone wants to know what I observed they can look for themselves.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you point to a post where I stay (as you claim I have) that "an opinion I agree with becomes fact", then I would have to admit I was wrong and concede your point.
That's how debate works!

But you would not admit you were wrong and concede my point. I know that you would deny it and argue and that is why I am not going to present the evidence.

 

[Trailblazer]

Here we go again.
"I do not agree with or fully understand everything Baha'u'llah wrote"
#1376

This is what happens when you keep changing your position to suit the circumstances. You forget what you said previously.

I do not CARE what I said previously. Every day is a new day. I do not live in the past.

I went around this block with another atheist on this forum for over a year. Like you, he could never understand that people say different things at different times because people think different things at different times.

Life is not static.

I am not changing my position to suit the circumstances, as if this is a game I am playing and trying to win. I am not trying to win a debate, I am only honestly presenting what I think at the time I present my thoughts.

People who are growing spiritually change their mind when they gain new insights. @Seeker of White Light understands this quite well.

 

[Trailblazer]

She made a specific accusation about something I said.

I made no accusation, I only made an observation.
This is not a court of law.

 

[Trailblazer]

Does that include making stuff up about other people in an attempt to score points in a debate?

Straw man. I am not making anything up or trying to score points.

 

[Trailblazer]

I am not here to score points or be liked. Only here to share my understanding of the topic in discussion or debate.

If you or others don't like my answers or my views that isn't something I worry about.

Ditto on that.

 

[Trailblazer]

Once again, your responses and comments, including repeated demands that we respect your views, suggests otherwise.

Straw man. @Seeker of White Light never made any demands that anyone respects his views.

Your repeated demands that we respect your views suggests that you are projecting.

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.

Psychological projection - Wikipedia

 

[Trailblazer]

But you have previously admitted that you cherry-pick scriptures to suit your desired outcome

No, that is not what @Seeker of White Light said, not unless you can quote him saying it.

As I recall, he said he reads scriptures from various religions and they all have something that helps him grow spiritually. He can correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Spirit of Light]

No, that is not what @Seeker of White Light said, not unless you can quote him saying it.

As I recall, he said he reads scriptures from various religions and they all have something that helps him grow spiritually. He can correct me if I am wrong.

@Trailblazer you are correct that I said every scripture can help a seeker and yes my growth has been due to many scriptures

 

[Trailblazer]

@Trailblazer you are correct that I said every scripture can help a seeker and yes my growth has been due to many scriptures

Thanks for clarifying that. I guess my memory is not half bad.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Thanks for clarifying that. I guess my memory is not half bad.

Even i don't use a name on my belief anymore, I know many Baha'is see me as close to their beliefs and faith i take that as a compliment

 

[Truthseeker]

So you admit you believe it is immoral and deserves condemnation. How does your wife feel about that?

You took my reply out of context, showing your disregard for the truth. Someone who has disregard for the truth will never recognize the truth. You don't care what the truth is, you just want to win. That blinds you. I feel sorry for you. I'm angry, too.

So you think people can be "cured" of homosexuality?
Is your wife "cured"?

Took this out of context, too. No, I don't think homosexuality is a choice, and can't be "cured".

Surely this is satire, yes?

Sorry, I had meant say he is not infallible in science and he said so himself. My mistake.

TBF, there isn't much point in you continuing if all you can present in support of your position are things like "Shoghi Effendi is infallible because Shoghi Effendi says he is".

It was a mistake in wording that I appeared to say that Shoghi Effendi was infallible in science.