Who was Krishna in your tradition?

[Marcion]

Jim I do not see it that way, as Krishna has been mentioned in enough detail by the Writings to safely use the term Manifestation of God. After all Baha'u'llah tells us they are one and the same Spirit and Baha'u'llah is the return of that Spirit of Krishna.

These are some of the quotes (I like the 2nd one, it mentions Atheists) ;

1) "An Indian said to Abdu'l-Bahá: 'My aim in life is to transmit as far as in me lies the message of Krishna to the world.'

Abdu'l-Bahá said: The Message of Krishna is the message of love. All God's prophets have brought the message of love. None has ever thought that war and hate are good. Every one agrees in saying that love and kindness are best." Abdu'l-Baha : Paris Talks

2) "...The Jews await the Messiah, the Christians the return of Christ, the Moslems the Mahdi, the Buddhists the fifth Buddha, the Zoroastrians Shah Bahram, the Hindoos the reincarnation of Krishna, and the Atheists - a better social organization! Bahá'u'lláh represents all these, and thus destroys the rivalries and the enmities of the different religions; reconciles them in their primitive purity, and frees them from the corruption of dogmas and rites." Abdu'l-Baha : Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha Volume 1

3) "...He alone (Baha'u'llah) is meant by the prophecy attributed to Gautama Buddha Himself, that "a Buddha named Maitreye, the Buddha of universal fellowship" should, in the fullness of time, arise and reveal "His boundless glory." To Him the Bhagavad-Gita of the Hindus had referred as the "Most Great Spirit," the "Tenth Avatar," the "Immaculate Manifestation of Krishna." Shoghi Effendi : God Passes By Part 1

Saying that Krishna is a "manifestation of God" and that he had a "message of love" does not mean very much. Many special people (Maharishi's) were in their own way a special "manifestation of God" and taught (universal) love in their teachings.

However saying that Bahaullah is the "reincarnation or immaculate manifestation of Krishna says a lot about the Bahai faith. They really seem to have little idea about who Lord Krishna was or they would never say such things. Of course no Hindu even would ever say that Krishna would/will reincarnate. If you accept (which I don't) that Krishna was an incarnation or avatar of Vishnu, then you would expect a new avatar of Vishnu and not a reincarnation of Krishna. Deities do not reincarnate, they are no ordinary beings.

 

[Jim]

Of course no Hindu even would ever say that Krishna would/will reincarnate.

“According to Vedas, Dhanwanthari was one of the reincarnations of Krishna.”
http://indiavivid.com/worshiping-dhanwanthari-god-medicines/

 

[Marcion]

“According to Vedas, Dhanwanthari was one of the reincarnations of Krishna.”
http://indiavivid.com/worshiping-dhanwanthari-god-medicines/

Yes indeed, and Satya Sai Baba said that he was a reincarnation (or was it an avatar?) of Shiva and Shakti.

 

[Jim]

Yes indeed, and Satya Sai Baba said that he was a reincarnation (or was it an avatar?) of Shiva and Shakti.

Are you saying that none of them are Hindus?

 

[Marcion]

Are you saying that none of them are Hindus?

No, what I was implying is that the claims are so incredibly varied that one would be tempted to turn into an atheist.
As a person who does not believe in the usefulness of separate religions that comes quite close I guess.
I'm happy for you that you found your Bahaullah but for me he is no comparison whatsoever with Lord Krishna and I don't feel Bahaullah had the knowledge he needed to be able to suggest any such thing if indeed he did so.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The Purana's have a lot of mythology but the Mahabharata is much more historical.
And there is of course Namámi Krishnasundaram which will give you a historical perspective as well.
That will give you very much more information than any vague remarks about the meaning of Shrii Krishna from the Bahai people.
And don't forget to study Lord Shiva as well, He is as least as important a Teacher as Lord Krishna is.

And don't be tempted to cut down their Personalities into an imagined Abrahamic mold because that would seem more realistic to you because They far outshine all the saints and preceptors of the Abrahamic faiths. In fact They don't Themselves belong to any sect or faith because They belong to the whole of humanity.

How about the 10th Canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam for a reflecting on Lord Krishna?

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 10: The Summum Bonum - Srimad Bhagavatam Class

Are those part of the mythical Purana's?

Of course we have your preceptor...

NAMÁMI KRŚŃA SUNDARAM – 1 | ÁNANDA MÁRGA - BHÁGAVATA DHARMA

PRECEPTOR – SHRII KRŚŃA | ÁNANDA MÁRGA - BHÁGAVATA DHARMA

PRECEPTOR – SHRII SHRII ÁNANDAMÚRTI | ÁNANDA MÁRGA - BHÁGAVATA DHARMA

who if he stands alongside the Lord Krishna and Lord Shiva could be the greatest preceptor of all!

 

[Vinayaka]

What Bahais think does not matter to us even in the least.

True, but for the evangelizers, although very few, trying to convert innocent villagers. We need to educate them to the dangers.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Terese @Aupmanyav @Marcion @Vinayaka @Jainarayan @CG Didymus @ameyAtmA @Satyamavejayanti

I haven't been able to find Krishna being called a "Manifestation of God" anywhere in Baha'i scriptures. Does anyone know where that's coming from? All I found Baha'i scriptures saying about Krishna is that he was "the cause of the illumination of the world of humanity." I also see Baha'u'llah being called "the reincarnation of Krishna," and "the Immaculate Manifestation of Krishna."

Manifestations of God | What Bahá’ís Believe
Founders of the great religions, among them Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, and—in more recent times—the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh.

These Figures are not simply ordinary people with a greater knowledge than others. Rather they are Manifestations of God,

Here is the best I can find: Hinduism and the Bahá'í Faith

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hindus. Does this make sense in your religions?

Hindus are awaiting the coming of the Kalki Avatar at the end of this present age, Kali Yuga. Bahá'ís believe that we are already at this time. We are at the end of the Kali Yuga and Bahá'u'lláh is the Kalki Avatar. This age in which we live is an age of the decline of righteousness.

 

[Marcion]

How about the 10th Canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam for a reflecting on Lord Krishna?

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 10: The Summum Bonum - Srimad Bhagavatam Class

Are those part of the mythical Purana's?

Bhagavata Purana - Wikipedia

The Puranic religion is a religion that came up during the collapse of Buddhism in India.
Everyone finds the preceptor that fits with their personal samskara's.

 

[Vinayaka]

Hindus. Does this make sense in your religions?

Hindus are awaiting the coming of the Kalki Avatar at the end of this present age, Kali Yuga. Bahá'ís believe that we are already at this time. We are at the end of the Kali Yuga and Bahá'u'lláh is the Kalki Avatar. This age in which we live is an age of the decline of righteousness.

No. Not at all. Firstly, only one sect believes in Kalki at all, and secondly those who do certainly wouldn't see one guy out of maybe 2000 claimants as being Kalki. It makes no sense whatsoever to Hindus that some Persian guy with no sense of dharma or of Hinduism would be. A pickpocket on the streets of Mumbai makes as much sense, if not more.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No. Not at all. Firstly, only one sect believes in Kalki at all, and secondly those who do certainly wouldn't see one guy out of maybe 2000 claimants as being Kalki. It makes no sense whatsoever to Hindus that some Persian guy with no sense of dharma or of Hinduism would be. A pickpocket on the streets of Mumbai makes as much sense, if not more.

Yeah. Was trying to find a section without the bahaullah mentioned. But it sounds like a lot of the incorporation of krishna and hindus god incorporation are taught as interpretations from bahai scripture. It reminds me of SGI where their head interprets the main scripture in light of their own philosophy and not the one actually written. But I cant tell because of the language. That, and I'm wondering if bahaullah wrote in king james bible language to appeal to others to become bahai. Id have to look it up myself. If it is like SGI it's hard to converse about the contradictions of their personal philosophy. But Im just guessing though the two seem sooo similar in approach it's harsh not to compare.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yeah. Was trying to find a section without the bahaullah mentioned. But it sounds like a lot of the incorporation of krishna and hindus god incorporation are taught as interpretations from bahai scripture. It reminds me of SGI where their head interprets the main scripture in light of their own philosophy and not the one actually written. But I cant tell because of the language. That, and I'm wondering if bahaullah wrote in king james bible language to appeal to others to become bahai. Id have to look it up myself. If it is like SGI it's hard to converse about the contradictions of their personal philosophy. But Im just guessing though the two seem sooo similar in approach it's harsh not to compare.

What's SGI?

 

[Aupmanyav]

True, but for the evangelizers, although very few, trying to convert innocent villagers. We need to educate them to the dangers.

Yeah, wolves in the garb of sheep.

 

[Marcion]

No. Not at all. Firstly, only one sect believes in Kalki at all, and secondly those who do certainly wouldn't see one guy out of maybe 2000 claimants as being Kalki. It makes no sense whatsoever to Hindus that some Persian guy with no sense of dharma or of Hinduism would be. A pickpocket on the streets of Mumbai makes as much sense, if not more.

The Bahai people though are taught that Bahaullah is the last main messenger of God. So given that they believe him to be that, they will also believe that the Hindus gradually twisted the real personality of Krishna (and Shiva) after thousands of years and that Bahaullah vision is the correct one. So what is truth in the land of make-belief?

Why does it have to be so complicated, why can't all those preceptors just agree on the explanation and hierarchy? Or is this kind of confusion just part of the game God plays with us?
People generally stick to the story of their own sect, perhaps also to avoid getting confused by the very different ideas and types of language.

Bahaullah's main goal seems noble, to unify a divided world. That is also what Anandamurti is doing but in a very different fashion.
One of the differences seems to be that Anandamurti is much more of a deeply rational philosopher who avoids 'religion speak' despite the spiritual nature of his philosophy. That's how an atheist or agnostic like myself could get attracted to his teachings (I know a few acharya's who started out as atheists). He unifies by avoiding religion and sticking to tantra-yoga and neo-humanism which may appeal to people from all-over.

Could I myself have become a Bahai if my girlfriend didn't happen to ask me to join her to that friday evening AMPS lecture at the university? I will never know now.
Anandamurti also quite drastically alters the images of Shiva and Krishna and seems to maintain that he is restoring the more original images after so many changes had taken place in the past (he explains in detail how it changed though, again that difference with Bahaullah). Of course he does not squeeze them into an Abrahamic mold but (back?) into a more Tantric-Yogic mold.

What I find a bit disappointing sometimes is that Anandamurti never gives any clues to the status of personalities like Jesus, Muhammed or Bahaullah, at least not in the lectures that were translated into English. He must have had his reasons.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What's SGI?

Yeah. Soka Gokai International
Soka Gakkai International - USA

It's an organization that promotes Buddhist teachings from a younger monk named Nichiren Shonin. They follow The Lotus Sutra by chanting Daimoku (Nam Myoho Renge Kyo) I devote myself to the Laws of karma.

Like when Bahai say about the sun and it's rays, SGI uses "changes poison into medicine".

It's more of a social change organization under a religious banner. It's an offshoot of Nichiren Shoshu sect who believes Nichiren, Buddhist founder, to be an incarnation of Shakyamuni Guatama himself. Like bahai to bahallah and HOJ, SGI members go straight to their organization president to intepret the laws and religious sayings of The Gosho, or letters Nichiren wrote while in prisioned (similar to bahai) about chanting Daimoku so we can be enlightened in this day.

The difference between the two is SGI members dont believe in god and they pray for better housing, good jobs, health. I don't think bahai is too much like that.

 

[syo]

Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu. a God

 

[Vinayaka]

Why does it have to be so complicated, why can't all those preceptors just agree on the explanation and hierarchy?

Not complicated at all, to me. solution to conflict is merely agreeing to disagree, amicably, without attempts to interfere with other's ways, without the superiority (more accurately inferiority) complex. Different strokes for different folks. This idea of having to agree on everything is just some fantasy, and totally unrealsitic.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@adrian009

Why does bahai (HOJ?) believe one interpretation of Krishna and not Hindu version?

Kinda like Muslims believe in their view of christ rather than accepting christian view.

 

[ajay0]

Hindus. Does this make sense in your religions?

Hindus are awaiting the coming of the Kalki Avatar at the end of this present age, Kali Yuga. Bahá'ís believe that we are already at this time. We are at the end of the Kali Yuga and Bahá'u'lláh is the Kalki Avatar. This age in which we live is an age of the decline of righteousness.

An enlightened master had stated that in this time, every enlightened sage is a Kalki, because they are destroying the old corrupt conditions and creating a new world.

So perhaps Bahaullah may be an Avatar like Sri Ramakrishna and Shirdi Sai Baba who performed the same task of unification of all religions.

But the Bahai religion does not seem that progressive to me due to discrimination against electing women leaders. The similarly monotheistic Prajapita Brahmakumaris, which is the only spiritual organisation in the world lead by female leaders, administrators , teachers and priests with centers all over the world, shows that such a measure is indeed regressive and not with the times.

The bahai religion was needed at a time, but perhaps it too have outlived its utility.