Who was Krishna in your tradition?

[Muffled]

I believe since he is often depicted as blue skinned that he may have been an alien.

 

[Jainarayan]

I believe since he is often depicted as blue skinned that he may have been an alien.

Most likely not. It's a convention of Indian art and mysticism.

https://isha.sadhguru.org/us/en/wisdom/article/why-is-krishna-blue
Can science explain blue skin of Lord Krishna?
http://www.wou.edu/wp/exhibits/files/2015/07/hinduism.pdf

There are many other links saying the same thing. Moreover, several deities are depicted as blue... Shiva (though he smears his body with ashes and appears white), Kali (actually, black), Rama, Vishnu, Kalki, Shani, and others. It's also an indication of the aura around them.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You were taking me literally. I was reflecting on why some Hindus would see themselves as superior to their Abrahamic cousins.

Hindus individually have their views. I was talking of the Hindu faith that many here talked about in their various practices.

I forgot to quote the italics. Thats what I wsa referring to when it comes to your association with Hinduism. Embracing Sanatana Dharma (I say hinduism since Im not personally familar with the word) and devoting yourself to other gods will greatly asisst your sampradaya sounds very close to considering yourself a hindu. As a monotheist, how do you reconcille krishna into your faith if you respect differences which means accepting their definition even when it contradicts yours?

Whether you believe it doesnt change the actual Hindu teaching.

It is an attitude I hope to never have along with Christianities narrative as why only Christians go to heaven and everyone else goes to hell.

Eh. Its their teaching. It has its place. i.e. I have mine.

You did mentioned they were flawed, though. So, I guess its alright.

The Baha'is have never been in a war. Baha'u'llah teaches it is better to be killed than kill.

My point is you said they are flawed because they have a bad history.

I am agnostic when it comes to reincarnation.

I don't consider myself part of the Hindu Faith. I am a Baha'i. As previously stated Hinduism is not a universal religion, the Baha'i Faith is.

Agnostic with reincarnation? How would a Hindu define it to which you understand the nature in order to have an opinion on it?

Kinda like my saying I am agnostic that god would send people to hell when I have to be a theist in order to make that opinion. But many atheist do anyway. Dont understand that.

Considering yourself Hindu or relating yourself to Hinduism is in your above post. Clarify how you dont consider yourself hindu, follow some practices, agnostic to reincarnation, and I remember monthsa go you saying you are hindu because other hindus have various beliefs.

Its not that its wrong for you. I just kinda wish you confirm that you said X cause its confusing when you defend yourself when Im just asking you said this and why.

America appears divided and confused at the moment. I wonder if that is relevant to our discussion?

The connection is america is divided but we still believe in individualism; so, my views about universalism stem from how my culture sees differing religions separate from their own. It has its pros and cons. No one looks at the pros though.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@adrian009 my other question I couldnt find an answer for. Why try to reconcile your faith with Hinduism when you say they are flawed and not universalist?

Why asociate with a flawed religion?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

@ adrian


The soul moves from material bodies, and can also move to the astral regions for a time as well ( as depicted by Sri Yukteshwar in Paramahamsa Yogananda's 'Autobiography of a Yogi'.

Total release from bondage results in Moksha or Nirvana.

What is your knowledge of Moksha or Nirvana? That being the result of the progress of the soul through all these stages of growth?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

My point is you said they are flawed because they have a bad history.

Apologize about the interupt, I would like to offer a quick thought on this aspect of violent history.

I personally think God gave us a great sign and a distinct break from the old laws to the new laws with the Messages of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

To consider this we can quote the Biblical Prophecy, knowing that Prophecy unfolds in Gods given time, not how we expect it to

Isaiah 2:4 "He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore"

In the time of the Bab the law of Holy War was being abolished, but the Bab made the Laws he gave dependant on the approval of Baha'u'llah, who was yet to be known and was the One the above Biblical Prophecy talked about. It was to Islam this law was to be first given. The Babi were in that transitional period,still under Islam Law and it is they that faced the rejection of the Babs Message and defended themselves under that Law. The Babi fought some epic battles against well trained forces that outnumbered them in the thousands. They were not defeated.

Then Baha'u'llah came and abrogated the Law of Holy war. From that day on, those Babi that had become Bahai and any Bahai since has put down the sword as per the above Prophecy and chose death over fighting.

The Nations that have not yet submitted to the wisdom of this new law, still battle.

The Prophecy will be fully realised.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I see Krishna how I see Krishna. Hindu's see Krishna how they see Krishna. I revere and worship Krishna. I see the path of connecting to others within Hinduism who feel the same on RF as extremely difficu

I'm confused. You said you arent trying to be Hindu but instead of worshiping krishna as you would personally you relate it to how you feel hindus do?

That's like my going into a Hindu temple, finding genshe, wash his statue, pour water over it with flowers, do my obligations, puja, and consider myself hindu. It may sound and look like it but there is a lot of mystics involves that without that "light" for lack of better words, I don't consider myself hindu.

Without the motivation to follow The Dharma and not any other teaching outside The Dharma, then I edit would not consider myself following the Hindu path. If I knew which sect I belong that would help a lot. Even more so under s Hindu guru though not many of us get that advantage.

But it's a whole lot more than what you posted. It's a religion (make it simple).

That and how do you follow krishna when you said you don't know much about him bahai scripture doesn't have much, and without the motivation etc to Practice hinduism mystics and all, I don't see how you're on the path. Maybe a syncretic?

But yes it would be difficult because you are trying to reconcile two worldviews into one. The Universalist Unitarian Church I went to didn't have that. The foundation was that of a community of different people on all sorts of paths. There was no mixing nor conformity under one thing. It unified all people together but not under one belief system. So, maybe there is different forms of universalism?

But you're confusing the heck out of me.

How and why conform to Hindu beliefs when they have flaws?

 

[Dawnofhope]

@adrian009 my other question I couldnt find an answer for. Why try to reconcile your faith with Hinduism when you say they are flawed and not universalist?

Why asociate with a flawed religion?

I'm trying to be as clear as I can be. I'm on RF to learn and Hinduism is one of the major world religions I wish to learn about.

I wonder if what you are really wanting to ask is am I learning about Hinduism so I can convert Hindus to the Baha'i Faith? That seems to have been the vibe from a few that have posted on this thread.

Marcion has repeated posted a quote from Shoghi Effendi back in 1936 emblazoned in red to warn everyone. He has even changed the wording of what Shoghi Effendi said.

Is that the question you would like me to answer?

All religions are flawed because human beings are flawed. Regardless there is a light from the Hindu religion that attracts me and inspires me to learn more.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What I can say is that I have come to understand as a Baha'i that Krishna gave a Message that inspires us to become better people, people of virtue and motivation to assist all people.

Thus this is what I would look for in what Krishna taught and try to live those teachings.

May peace and justice be upon all people.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm trying to be as clear as I can be. I'm on RF to learn and Hinduism is one of the major world religions I wish to learn about.

I wonder if what you are really wanting to ask is am I learning about Hinduism so I can convert Hindus to the Baha'i Faith? That seems to have been the vibe from a few that have posted on this thread.

Marcion has repeated posted a quote from Shoghi Effendi back in 1936 emblazoned in red to warn everyone. He has even changed the wording of what Shoghi Effendi said.

Is that the question you would like me to answer?

All religions are flawed because human beings are flawed. Regardless there is a light from the Hindu religion that attracts me and inspires me to learn more.

No. But thanks for asking for clarification.

Its just straight foward. You mentioned you are trying to practice Hinduism. I cant remember the term you used that you are trying to improve in. Its with the comment of Sanatana Dharma. You use hindu gods in your worship. So, you can kinda see why it sounds like that?

If all religions are flawed, yours is too?

Usually, we are following a religion because we know what is best for us. We know it isnt flawed because it helps us with our wellbeing. All religions have history; but, we dont considered our religion-our faith-our spirit/uality flawed because of our religions history. To many of us without that history, we wouldnt be here today. We dont separate it, we grow from it. Having no violent history doesnt make one religion better than another.

My question....since you have hindu deities, want to reconcile reincarnation into your faith (which takes brain hopping to change their view to yours, I understand), welcome to learn from them, but then maintain their religion is flawed because they have a violent history and misguided because they arent universalist,

but you still follow some of what you understand their teachings to be? Why?

Personally, I dont see your religion flawed. It is what it is. Just as Hinduism and Toaism etc. They have their place. I do see things I disagree with in all these religions. Disagreeing doesnt make them flawed.

Why be a part of or take parts of (however put) a flawed religion?

If I knew a religion is flawed, say the human sacrifice, Id never want to be a part of it. No matter how much I like it, sacrificing a human being isnt part of my gig.

Thats me. But trying to reconcile differences is something I dont understand. I mean, the idea of it, I disagree but I never talked about why and how people can do it. The syncretic religious here are still searching their faith so I dont really dont question their logic. I figure you can handle it?

 

[Dawnofhope]

@ adrian


The soul moves from material bodies, and can also move to the astral regions for a time as well ( as depicted by Sri Yukteshwar in Paramahamsa Yogananda's 'Autobiography of a Yogi'.

Total release from bondage results in Moksha or Nirvana.

I read Yogananda’s book many years ago and decided reincarnation was true on the strength of the testimony and character of the one writing. Now I am agnostic.

I’ve talked to a few people over the years who have done astral travel, had near death experiences and various mystical experiences most often from the use of hallucinations. I definitely believe there’s something in it but it’s not the path I aspire to.

I had two years of meditating morning and evening based on Dharmic meditative practices. The experience was never moksha but it lead me to nirvana of sorts and ultimately to the Baha’i Faith.

 

[Dawnofhope]

No. But thanks for asking for clarification.

Its just straight foward. You mentioned you are trying to practice Hinduism. I cant remember the term you used that you are trying to improve in. Its with the comment of Sanatana Dharma. You use hindu gods in your worship. So, you can kinda see why it sounds like that?

If all religions are flawed, yours is too?

Usually, we are following a religion because we know what is best for us. We know it isnt flawed because it helps us with our wellbeing. All religions have history; but, we dont considered our religion-our faith-our spirit/uality flawed because of our religions history. To many of us without that history, we wouldnt be here today. We dont separate it, we grow from it. Having no violent history doesnt make one religion better than another.

My question....since you have hindu deities, want to reconcile reincarnation into your faith (which takes brain hopping to change their view to yours, I understand), welcome to learn from them, but then maintain their religion is flawed because they have a violent history and misguided because they arent universalist,

but you still follow some of what you understand their teachings to be? Why?

Personally, I dont see your religion flawed. It is what it is. Just as Hinduism and Toaism etc. They have their place. I do see things I disagree with in all these religions. Disagreeing doesnt make them flawed.

Why be a part of or take parts of (however put) a flawed religion?

If I knew a religion is flawed, say the human sacrifice, Id never want to be a part of it. No matter how much I like it, sacrificing a human being isnt part of my gig.

Thats me. But trying to reconcile differences is something I dont understand. I mean, the idea of it, I disagree but I never talked about why and how people can do it. The syncretic religious here are still searching their faith so I dont really dont question their logic. I figure you can handle it?

I’ve been a Baha’i for nearly 30 years. I’m always learning. The journey never stops. We all learn from each other. There is no hierarchy or class distinction. Just brothers and sisters on a journey to become better people. There is no Baha’i or non-Baha’i, no Hindu or non-Hindu. None of us is perfect. We are all flawed.

You may well struggle to understand Bahá’u’lláh’s words as I did initially but then consider He spent two years in relative isolation in the mountains of Kurdistan and would often associate with Sufis.

O CHILDREN OF MEN! Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created. Since We have created you all from one same substance it is incumbent on you to be even as one soul, to walk with the same feet, eat with the same mouth and dwell in the same land, that from your inmost being, by your deeds and actions, the signs of oneness and the essence of detachment may be made manifest. Such is My counsel to you, O concourse of light! Heed ye this counsel that ye may obtain the fruit of holiness from the tree of wondrous glory.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I’ve been a Baha’i for nearly 30 years. I’m always learning. The journey never stops. We all learn from each other. There is no hierarchy or class distinction. Just brothers and sisters on a journey to become better people. There is no Baha’i or non-Baha’i, no Hindu or non-Hindu. None of us is perfect. We are all flawed.

You may well struggle to understand Bahá’u’lláh’s words as I did initially but then consider He spent two years in relative isolation in the mountains of Kurdistan and would often associate with Sufis.

O CHILDREN OF MEN! Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created. Since We have created you all from one same substance it is incumbent on you to be even as one soul, to walk with the same feet, eat with the same mouth and dwell in the same land, that from your inmost being, by your deeds and actions, the signs of oneness and the essence of detachment may be made manifest. Such is My counsel to you, O concourse of light! Heed ye this counsel that ye may obtain the fruit of holiness from the tree of wondrous glory.

Um. Adrian. Its pretty straightforward.

Why do you want to practice a religion (believe in krishna, reconcille reincarnation in your faith, relate to hindus, etc) if their religion is flawed?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@adrian009

What is flawed about your faith?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Um. Adrian. Its pretty straightforward.

Why do you want to practice a religion (believe in krishna, reconcille reincarnation in your faith, relate to hindus, etc) if their religion is flawed?

I already believe in Krishna. I already practice a faith that has many elements of other religions including Hinduism. Ahisma is an example. Elements of the eightfold noble path (Buddhism) are in all genuine faiths including the Baha'i Faith and Hinduism. It is very straightforward as you say.

 

[Dawnofhope]

@adrian009

What is flawed about your faith?

Those that practice it including myself. We are called Baha'is.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I already believe in Krishna. I already practice a faith that has many elements of other religions including Hinduism. Ahisma is an example. Elements of the eightfold noble path (Buddhism) are in all genuine faiths including the Baha'i Faith and Hinduism. It is very straightforward as you say.

Why say it is flawed when you follow it and relate to it?

I mean, not being a universalist religion and having a bad history, as you mentioned, is pretty big to where Id assume that would influence how you see hinduism?

Can you see my confusion?

Kinda like my still practicing catholicism despite not liking human sacrifice. Belief in human sacrifice is a pretty strong element to the christian faith as is non-universalism to hinduism.

So...?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Those that practice it including myself. We are called Baha'is.

I know. Is your religion flawed regardless who follows it and who they are called?

 

[ajay0]

What is your knowledge of Moksha or Nirvana? That being the result of the progress of the soul through all these stages of growth?

Regards Tony

It is just hacking away the inessential.

The progress of the soul is nothing but the elimination of the egocentric/psychological impressions or vasanas/shankaras, that have accumulated to it in the course of lifetimes under the influence of desire in the form of cravings and aversions which prompt egocentric actions.

Complete elimination of these impressions through present moment awareness or total love or other spiritual exercises results in enlightenment or Nirvana.

 

[ajay0]

I read Yogananda’s book many years ago and decided reincarnation was true on the strength of the testimony and character of the one writing. Now I am agnostic.

I’ve talked to a few people over the years who have done astral travel, had near death experiences and various mystical experiences most often from the use of hallucinations. I definitely believe there’s something in it but it’s not the path I aspire to.

I had two years of meditating morning and evening based on Dharmic meditative practices. The experience was never moksha but it lead me to nirvana of sorts and ultimately to the Baha’i Faith.

Knowledge of reincarnation is not a prerequisite to enlightenment. It can be a helpful tool intellectually for understanding karma or the chain of 'cause and effect' and its influences through lifetimes.

You are in the bahai path due to past life influences which integrated all that you perceive now in the bahai. This is why you connect to it.