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Who Was The Spirit Of Truth? And Who Was The Comforter?

hotep

hotep

Member
come on in,

stay for a while,

we got a problem

check it:


John 15:26

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.

John 14:16

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.






God will Be sending the Spirit of truth, who is that?

Who is This another Comforter spoken about?

Could there be Two Comforters or more?



If The Comforter is the Holy ghost,
than who is the spirit of truth?

Because if the Comforter is the Holy spirit,

than the Holy Ghost cant be the Spirit of Truth,
because that would mean that there are two Holy Ghost.


Question that you dont have to answer,
but should call you to reflect on,
at the same time if you think
you understand this please
share.





peace
 
DadBurnett

DadBurnett

Instigator
Your post brought up two questions in my mind ... you used the phrase "who was" and that implies perhaps something that once was but is no more ...
Secondly ... who says either was a "who?? I read "who' as perhaps referring to a personage ...

My answer to your questions ... what you (what the scripture refers to are simply aspects of God, not aseperate entities. Anyway, that's my perspective.
 
te_lanus

te_lanus

Alien Hybrid
for me they are two separate entities.

  1. The Comforter is as I see it God's Wife Asherah, because like a mom she takes care of you. according to my one Jewish friend the Comforter can be seen as a christianizing of the Shechinah - "Wheresoever they were exiled, the Shechinah went with them." Megillah 29a
  2. The Spirit of truth I see as the Holy Spirit that was poured on ALL men to lead them in ALL truth
 
hotep

hotep

Member
DadBurnett said:
Your post brought up two questions in my mind ... you used the phrase "who was" and that implies perhaps something that once was but is no more ...
Secondly ... who says either was a "who?? I read "who' as perhaps referring to a personage ...

My answer to your questions ... what you (what the scripture refers to are simply aspects of God, not aseperate entities. Anyway, that's my perspective.
Click to expand...



define entitles?

peace
 
Zhakir

Zhakir

Peace&Tolerance
hotep said:
come on in,

stay for a while,

we got a problem

check it:


John 15:26

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.

John 14:16

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.






God will Be sending the Spirit of truth, who is that?

Who is This another Comforter spoken about?

Could there be Two Comforters or more?



If The Comforter is the Holy ghost,
than who is the spirit of truth?

Because if the Comforter is the Holy spirit,

than the Holy Ghost cant be the Spirit of Truth,
because that would mean that there are two Holy Ghost.


Question that you dont have to answer,
but should call you to reflect on,
at the same time if you think
you understand this please
share.





peace
Click to expand...

"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.
Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).
John 16:12-14

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
 
Last edited:
Breathe

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
Salam!

Hmmm, I wonder if the mods might merge this thread with
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...et-muhammad-pbuh-prophesised.html#post1646068

Since they're basically similar things: "Muhammad prophesied in the Bible".

Councsellor/Comforter

Wikipedia.org Paraclete said:
paráklētos, "one who consoles, one who intercedes on our behalf, a comforter or an advocate").[1] It may reflect a translation of the Hebrew word מְנַחֵם‎ (mənaḥḥēm "comforter")
Click to expand...
If it was a case of Paraclete being a translation of Menahem - a king of Israel, then it would be interesting. Though, I'm not a fan of these kind of prophecies, they would lend more credibility.

John 14:16 is part of a verse, John 14:16-17 in context;
"16: And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor to be with you forever— 17: the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you."

If this was the case, how could Muhammad live "within" the disciples? Within Christianity the Holy Spirit is not Gabriel - and in my view it would be something akin to what a Muslim would describe as "Sakina" or "Shekhinah" - I like this view (since I try to reason the verses outside of the Trinity, I view the Holy Spirit as that). :D

As to John 25:26, this one appears less of a "spiritual" being, but it still it is described as the Spirit of Truth (befitting description of Sakina in my view :D) and "Whom I will send to you from the Father". Unless the descriptions used are metaphorical, it doesn't make sense.

Just my $0.02.
Your views, guys? :)
 
Last edited:
Mr Cheese

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
saunders Gnostic Glossary states:

Paraclete; Parakleiton: (puraclete) “Comforter” or one who pleads a case for
another. This word is sometimes used for the Holy Spirit or for the Logos. (See
“1st Book of Jeu”) ”The followers of Valentinus say that Jesus is the
Paraclete, because he has come full of the Aeons, having come forth from the
whole. For Christ left behind Sophia, who had put him forth, and going into the
Pleroma, asked for help for Sophia, who was left outside; and Jesus was put
forth by the good will of the Aeons as a Paraclete for the Aeon which had
passed. In the type of the Paraclete, Paul became the Apostle of the
Resur­rection.” (Theodotus, source, Dr. Andrew Criddle.)

note:Paraclete - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Some people including Montanus in the mid 2nd century and Mani (210-276) claimed to be the promised paraclete of John 14:16.The leading authority on classical Greek ( Liddell, which is of course slightly different than biblical Koine Greek ) portrays the word Paraclete as an antonym for Diabolos, characterizing the former as a defender and the latter as an accuser. The ‘clete’ syllable derives from the same etymological origin as ‘ecclesia’ – the infinitive of which means “to call”. By the ‘ecclesia’, the church is called to assemble. Similarly, the Paraclete is “called” to the side of the one on trial.



​
Like purified clouds of water, she penetrated into them like a piercing lightning stroke.
She crept inside their insides and bound them all without their ever knowing.
When the First Man had ended his struggle the Father sent forth his Second Son.
He came and helped his brother out of the Abyss.
He built this whole world up out of the mixture
that had come into existence out of Light and Darkness.
All the Powers of the Abyss he spread out to the ten Heavens and to eight Earths,
he shut them up into this World and made it a dungeon for all the Powers of Darkness.
This World is also, however, a place of purification of the soul
which had been swallowed up in the Powers of Darkness.
The Sun and the Moon where set up and fixed in the heights, to purify the Soul.
They take the refined part daily upward to the heights but they destroy the deposit.
They convey it up and down.
This whole World stands firm for a Season,
since there is a great Building being erected outside the World.
At the Hour when the Architect shall complete it, the entire World shall be dissolved.
It shall be set afire, that the fire may melt it away.
All Life, the Remnants of Light in every Place
he shall gather to himself and form of it a Statue (Eidolon — image, likeness).
Even the Resolution of Death also, the whole of Darkness,
he shall gather in and make an image of itself along with the Archon.
In a moment the Living Spirit shall come.
It will succor to the Light,
but the Resolution of Death and the Darkness
lock away in the chamber that was built for it that it may lie in chains forever.
There is no other means save this means to bind the Enemy,
for he shall not be received into the Light because he is a stranger to it,
but he shall also not be left in his Land of darkness,
lest he may wage a greater war than the first.
A New Aeon shall be built in the place of this World, which shall be dissolved,
so that in it the Powers of Light may reign
since they have preformed and fulfilled the whole of the Father’s will.
They have overthrown the hateful one, they have defeated him forever.
This is the knowledge of Mani,
let us worship him and bless him.
Blessed is every man that may trust in him
for he shall live with the Righteous.
Honor and Victory to our Lord Mani, the Spirit of Truth,
that cometh from the Father and has revealed to us
the Beginning, the Middle, and the End.
Victory to the Soul of the Blessed Mary. Theona, Pshai, Jemnoute.
(Let us Worship the Spirit of the Paraclete–Manichean Writing)​


Mani’s mystical teachings have profoundly enriched the Nazorean Way. His name means the “Vessel of Life” and he came to be regarded by his Christian disciples as the Paraclete, by his Persian followers as the Zoroastrian redeemer Saoshyant, and by his Buddhist adherents as the Avatar Maitreya. He was a gifted writer, teacher, artist, physician, astrologer, musician and a miracle-worker. He personally illuminated and illustrated many of his original scriptures, and could draw a fine line on silk and then erase it by removing one thin thread.​

The term Paraclete is another term Gnostics have a special meaning for because he (Jesus) has come full of the Aeons, having come forth from the whole. This makes Jesus the carrier of the Word from the Pleroma. Because this is what Gnostics mean by Paraclete it doesn’t matter what the Church thinks it is, as far as to Gnostic content.​

Mani and other Gnostics could have adopted the term to mean a number of things distorted by the Heresiologists, and anti-Gnostics. Some have meant paraclete to mean comforter. What the term conotes and denotes is largely gleaned from the context the term is placed. Both Comforter, or Paraclete imply a form of companionship between entities, and imply helping the other in the union. This is not that far from the concept of union with the Word.

N-P « Prayers and Reflections
 
hotep

hotep

Member
Odion said:
Salam!

Hmmm, I wonder if the mods might merge this thread with
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...et-muhammad-pbuh-prophesised.html#post1646068

Since they're basically similar things: "Muhammad prophesied in the Bible".

Councsellor/Comforter


If it was a case of Paraclete being a translation of Menahem - a king of Israel, then it would be interesting. Though, I'm not a fan of these kind of prophecies, they would lend more credibility.

John 14:16 is part of a verse, John 14:16-17 in context;
"16: And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor to be with you forever— 17: the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you."

If this was the case, how could Muhammad live "within" the disciples? Within Christianity the Holy Spirit is not Gabriel - and in my view it would be something akin to what a Muslim would describe as "Sakina" or "Shekhinah" - I like this view (since I try to reason the verses outside of the Trinity, I view the Holy Spirit as that). :D

As to John 25:26, this one appears less of a "spiritual" being, but it still it is described as the Spirit of Truth (befitting description of Sakina in my view :D) and "Whom I will send to you from the Father". Unless the descriptions used are metaphorical, it doesn't make sense.

Just my $0.02.
Your views, guys? :)
Click to expand...


you work on that part, and we will see from the answers, if they are truth base,
and scriptural, if we can bring the two subjects together as one.
 
F

Fatihah

Well-Known Member
hotep said:
come on in,

stay for a while,

we got a problem

check it:


John 15:26

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.

John 14:16

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.






God will Be sending the Spirit of truth, who is that?

Who is This another Comforter spoken about?

Could there be Two Comforters or more?



If The Comforter is the Holy ghost,
than who is the spirit of truth?

Because if the Comforter is the Holy spirit,

than the Holy Ghost cant be the Spirit of Truth,
because that would mean that there are two Holy Ghost.


Question that you dont have to answer,
but should call you to reflect on,
at the same time if you think
you understand this please
share.





peace
Click to expand...

Response: And call to mind when Jesus son of Mary, said, 'O children of Israel, surely, I am Allah's Messenger unto you, fulfuilling that which is before me of the prophecies of the Torah, giving glad tidings of a Messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad. And when he came to them with clear proofs, they said, 'This is manifest sorcery'".
(Ch.61:6 of the qur'an)

Ahmad is another name for "Muhammad"(pbuh). The comforter is none other than prophet Muhammad(pbuh).
 
hotep

hotep

Member
Fatihah said:
Response: And call to mind when Jesus son of Mary, said, 'O children of Israel, surely, I am Allah's Messenger unto you, fulfuilling that which is before me of the prophecies of the Torah, giving glad tidings of a Messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad. And when he came to them with clear proofs, they said, 'This is manifest sorcery'".
(Ch.61:6 of the qur'an)

Ahmad is another name for "Muhammad"(pbuh). The comforter is none other than prophet Muhammad(pbuh).
Click to expand...




yes sister.

so true.

but they wont see it that way,
so i will speak in a different
language.
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
hotep said:
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16
Click to expand...

Which comes BEFORE "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
hotep said:
why the differnt names for both if they were the same thing?

arent both words in the same language?


peace
Click to expand...

The Spirit of Truth is the same as the Holy Spirit.

Different names can be used to describe certain attributes.
 
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