Who you vote for is indicative of what you may believe in

[Epic Beard Man]

This is somewhat a spinoff thread from the other two threads concerning the dangers of being a Trump voter and Trump hater. Me personally I do not hate Trump cause for one, I've never met the man but I hate what he stands for. I hate the fact that the man called for the execution of the central park 5 taking out an ad in the paper. When they were found to be not guilty he still never had taken down the ad. I hate the fact that the man was sued for housing discrimination, yet settled out of court (surely anyone who is not racist would find it highly offensive to be accused of discrimination as this label can indeed follow you throughout life). He has made other comments about blacks, Jews, women, the disabled, and yet this man found himself to be the U.S. president.

What I've learned since the Obama presidency is that race matters and we live in a highly racialized society where people are still not completely ready for a president of color. Sure Obama was the first, but he teeter-tottered between discussing black agendas and seriously engaging them. Other minority groups had their agendas met and he (Obama) engaged them. During his presidency America has taught me what you look like counts what's on the outside for example:

America has taught me that you cannot have a name like Barack Hussein Obama without being labeled a "Muslim" simply because your father was one, and because your name is of Arabic descent. I for one voted for Obama because he had progressive ideals for change. Prior to my graduating in 2009, many of us students were happy to have a president that leveled with us young students and inspired us to heavenly goals. He seemed down to earth, cool, articulate and a handsome fellow and for the other things Obama is known for he just so happened to be the first African-American to do this! I am a progressive by that very nature I vote on the basis of whether a president can exert ideals and enact policies to reflect the progress America is making in equalizing the United States. Was Obama perfect? No, not by a long shot. Obama was the establishment, but I understand that one can only hope that the next president will be true catalyst of change.

But then we come back to Trump........

What I never understood why anyone could vote for a man like Trump. No political experience, inarticulate, always the center of controversy, a television entertainer. He by definition is not even a model Christian who even said on live television that he does not need to even ask for God's forgiveness. Trump is a conglomerate of what presidential isn't, and the very nature of an individual who throws rocks and hides their hands. I've heard of those who voted for Trump overlooking his checkered past, but more so focusing on Hillary I believe the following article can articulate something similar:

"One financially well-off and influential individual I spoke to announced himself as a “Trumpster.” “As a Trumpster,” he said, “I felt he had the better plan for the country. Oh and I don’t care about his morals.” He went on to dismiss my questions about character and bigotry. I also overheard a couple discussing the election by the fire at a gorgeous Virginia hotel; their comments revealed they were firmly in the “I hate Hillary and would vote for anyone to keep the Clintons from getting into the White House again” camp. I have also read more about my fellow Americans who voted for Trump because you have suffered severe economic loss and feel unheard by our country and government."

In my mind and how I feel when Trump voters find Trump's racism as secondary to their own economic interest I find it sad and very telling about who they are. It is akin to Louis Farrakhan becoming president and with all his anti-white and anti-Semitic rhetoric that he exhibits that is like me coming on here singing his praises and overlooking his faults. I'm sure many of you would have created many threads on Farrakhan as a racist and paint him very negatively, and I think it is because you would be the marginalized group, white Americans or Caucasians regardless of European ancestry. But when it comes to people of color, many Trump voters make excuses on Trump's racist policies as something to the effect of "he is protecting this country" or one might say "oh that is his past!" Because you're not the targeted community you therefore find less of a connection and are less likely to relate to the marginalization of minorities. What makes it a problem for me is when Americans can overlook racism and can overlook a president who proclaims that there are good people among white nationalists who have centuries of history in this country which has perpetuated violence against tens of millions of black Americans, I have a big problem.

I wish Trump voters who do in fact overlook these things do some real soul searching......I offer the following solutions to Trump voters:

"So if you voted for Trump and you are not a racist, you have a lot of work to do for the common good, to reverse the vitriol that your candidate has fomented. To remain silent, or simply insist that you are not a racist, will not be enough if this country is going to continue to grow and thrive in this complex world. There is no such thing as passive anti-racism."


"If you are not a racist and you are a business leader who voted for Trump, you need to say I voted for Trump and I am against “othering” and excluding people. You need to double down on efforts to create a workplace that is open and fair where opportunity is equally given. You must set an example of inclusive behavior and a safe space for those to share different opinions. If you don’t, you will be operating in a diverse world without the power, relevance, financial success, and ingenuity that a talented and diverse workforce offers."

"If you are not a bigot and you are a parent who voted for Trump, you must sit your children down now. Don’t wait for them to ask. Tell them that they are not better than anyone else, and demand they show respect and kindness to others no matter what their background."

"If you are not a racist, and you are a writer, musician or artist who voted for Trump, you need to start creating work that calls out and denounces bigotry and separation and begins to heal the pain, confusion and despair that Americans regardless of political affiliation are experiencing right now. Art is about reflecting, reframing and rebirthing; we are in desperate need of the language of inclusion and a new vision for our nation."

"If you are not a racist and you are a pastor or a lay Christian who voted for Trump, we need you to pray for those who seem bent on destroying others and show the love of God to those on the other side. As I read 1 Corinthians 13:4-6: “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth...” This is the kind of love I mean."

"If you are not a racist, and you are a police officer who voted for Trump, you must be willing not to bear down on protesters when they are exercising their right to free assembly and speech. Try to see them as your sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, those whose lives you cherish and are sworn to protect and serve."

"So, if you are not a racist and you voted for Trump, you must be courageous enough to interrupt the bias and stand for the respect and the dignity of all humans whether you see that bias on social media, at your dinner table, your locker room, your company or your town meeting—whether it means speaking up to your family, your friends, your religious leaders or a stranger. You can interrupt this repugnant behavior in a way that I cannot. I know you voted for your own interest last week, but I pray you remember there is a larger interest at stake, one that connects and affects us all -the preservation of the common good. Your election of Trump has made that harder. So STAND UP, announce who you voted for and declare that you will not allow the bigotry to continue. This is your duty; this is your obligation, this is your work."

Then if you don't want to do the above then as a Trump voter you ought to exclaim proudly that you do in fact have racial prejudices....

If You Voted For Trump And You're Not A Racist, You Have A Lot Of Work To Do | HuffPost

 

[ChristineM]

I am not american but if i were i could not vote for a misogynist who openly admits unsolicited groping of women.

The rest only confirms my view of this man ( i use the word in its loosest possible sense)

 

[Revoltingest]

If You Voted For Trump And You're Not A Racist, You Have A Lot Of Work To Do | HuffPost

If you voted for Hillary, & you're not a corrupt incompetent war mongering sexist, you have a lot of work to do.

Notice:
The above post is designed to illustrate the folly of thinking that
your tribe is pure as the driven snow, while the other is evil incarnate.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am not american but if i were i could not vote for a misogynist who openly admits unsolicited groping of women.

The rest only confirms my view of this man ( i use the word in its loosest possible sense)

There is the age old question.....
There are only 2 candidates with any possibility of winning.
The election will be close, so one's vote has more power than usual.
Both candidates are unsavory, & hold views one abhors.
One's choices....
- Vote for the greater of 2 evils.
- Vote for the lesser of 2 evils.
- Vote third party or not at all, thereby having no influence on the outcome.
I can sympathize with the last 2 options, having practiced both.

Of course, there are complexities.
Some voters have different criteria, eg, single issue voters....
- Vote pro-choice.
- Vote pro-life.
- Never vote for the p***y grabber.
- It's time for a woman.
- Vote for one's party.
- Vote for one's religion.
But these aren't reasonable because they ignore the larger picture.

 

[ChristineM]

There is the age old question.....
There are only 2 candidates with any possibility of winning.
The election will be close, so one's vote has more power than usual.
Both candidates are unsavory, & hold views one abhors.
One's choices....
- Vote for the greater of 2 evils.
- Vote for the lesser of 2 evils.
- Vote third party or not at all, thereby having no influence on the outcome.
I can sympathize with the last 2 options, having practiced both.

Of course, there are complexities.
Some voters have different criteria, eg, single issue voters....
- Vote pro-choice.
- Vote pro-life.
- Never vote for the p***y grabber.
- It's time for a woman.
- Vote for one's party.
- Vote for one's religion.
But these aren't reasonable because they ignore the larger picture.

The decider for me is 'Never vote for the p***y grabber.'

Of course if the opposition is no better for whatever reasons then i am afraid they would have to do without my vote.

Perhaps it would feel less like wasting a vote if opting for a 3rd option assuming policies were not too abhorrent to a left wing libertarian.

I guess if everyone thought like the 3rd option would be a contender

 

[Revoltingest]

The decider for me is 'Never vote for the p***y grabber.'

I go with...
Less likely to get us into war, but more likely to enhance liberty.

Of course if the opposition is no better for whatever reasons then i am afraid they would have to do without my vote.

Perhaps it would feel less like wasting a vote if opting for a 3rd option assuming policies were not too abhorrent to a left wing libertarian.

I guess if everyone thought like the 3rd option would be a contender

Long long ago, in a mindset far far away, I believed that always voting Libertarian
was worth it because eventually a majority will agree with me, & vote the same.
Ameristan would enter a golden age of peace & liberty.
Oh, the folly of youth. I've a different view of human nature now...more complex.

 

[ChristineM]

I go with...
Less likely to get us into war, but more likely to enhance liberty.

Long long ago, in a mindset far far away, I believed that always voting Libertarian
was worth it because eventually a majority will agree with me, & vote the same.
Ameristan would enter a golden age of peace & liberty.
Oh, the folly of youth. I've a different view of human nature now...more complex.

Libertarian ideals are as complex as other views, they just seem less complex to people jumping ship.

 

[Revoltingest]

Libertarian ideals are as complex as other views, they just seem less complex to people jumping ship.

The complexity lies in human tendencies...taking those into account
when designing political & economic systems to achieve one's goals.
If people were perfect, it would be easy. Even socialism could work.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

There is the age old question.....
There are only 2 candidates with any possibility of winning.
The election will be close, so one's vote has more power than usual.
Both candidates are unsavory, & hold views one abhors.
One's choices....
- Vote for the greater of 2 evils.
- Vote for the lesser of 2 evils.
- Vote third party or not at all, thereby having no influence on the outcome.
I can sympathize with the last 2 options, having practiced both.

Of course, there are complexities.
Some voters have different criteria, eg, single issue voters....
- Vote pro-choice.
- Vote pro-life.
- Never vote for the p***y grabber.
- It's time for a woman.
- Vote for one's party.
- Vote for one's religion.
But these aren't reasonable because they ignore the larger picture.

You can't tell me you're not a tunnel visioned single issue voter when literally all you have is supposition that Hillary would be more likely to involve us in more war. That's it.
Trump is corrupt, probably the most corrupt president we've had since Nixon. And his rhetoric puts multiple groups at risk.

 

[ChristineM]

The complexity lies in human tendencies...taking those into account
when designing political & economic systems to achieve one's goals.
If people were perfect, it would be easy. Even socialism could work.

Again, the tendencies may seem more difficult because to the changling those tendencies are alien. Maybe one moving the other way feels the same way

 

[Revoltingest]

You can't tell me you're not a tunnel visioned single issue voter when literally all you have is supposition that Hillary would be more likely to involve us in more war. That's it.

That misrepresents the more extensive views I often expressed
However, propensity to start needless deadly costly wars is an
important factor....to me, if not to you.

 

[Revoltingest]

Again, the tendencies may seem more difficult because to the changling those tendencies are alien. Maybe one moving the other way feels the same way

Human nature is pretty constant.
Culture is what changes....to some extent.

 

[ChristineM]

Human nature is pretty constant.
Culture is what changes....to some extent.

 

[Stanyon]

Other minority groups had their agendas met and he (Obama) engaged them. During his presidency America has taught me what you look like counts what's on the outside for example:
View attachment 27069

On a scale of 0-5 zero 0 being none and 5 being highly offensive rate the photos below:

To address the O.P. I buy strawberry soft serve ice cream when I can because I like strawberry soft serve ice cream.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

That misrepresents the more extensive views I often expressed

Such as? Outside of that single issue everything I've seen you accuse Hillary of Trump is doubly guilty of.

However, propensity to start needless deadly costly wars is an
important factor....to me, if not to you.

It is to me too. Just not above all the other issues like normalized misogyny, normalized racism, dramatic increase in radical right domestic terrorism, stripping of LGBT rights including trans military and workplace discrimination as well as unnecessarily adding anti-lgbt members to his administration to preserve voting base, lack of insight or willing to research causing bumbled trade negotiations, poor allied relations, complete and utter lack of honesty, being reactive thin-skinned in the face of political criticism, not only halting disability policies but actively mocking disabled, removing yet more veteran support, no plan on Healthcare other than removing Obamacare, promoting anti-science education administration, putting tax money towards private schools instead of public schools, perpetuating birther conspiracy...
I could literally go on for pages. So far as I can tell no one against Trump has a single reason for being so. I certainly have more than one.

 

[Revoltingest]

Such as? Outside of that single issue everything I've seen you accuse Hillary of Trump is doubly guilty of.

Then you've not been reading many or entire posts.

It is to me too. Just not above all the other issues like normalized misogyny, normalized racism, dramatic increase in radical right domestic terrorism, stripping of LGBT rights including trans military and workplace discrimination as well as unnecessarily adding anti-lgbt members to his administration to preserve voting base, lack of insight or willing to research causing bumbled trade negotiations, poor allied relations, complete and utter lack of honesty, being reactive thin-skinned in the face of political criticism, not only halting disability policies but actively mocking disabled, removing yet more veteran support, no plan on Healthcare other than removing Obamacare, promoting anti-science education administration, putting tax money towards private schools instead of public schools, perpetuating birther conspiracy...
I could literally go on for pages. So far as I can tell no one against Trump has a single reason for being so. I certainly have more than one.

I don't plan to convince you that Trump
was the lesser of 2 evils in that election.
We're too far apart on the issues for that.
But I do ask you to not misrepresent my views.
I'll do my best to give you the same courtesy.

 

[Woberts]

I go with...
but more likely to enhance liberty.

You did a fine job of that, eh?

 

[Revoltingest]

You did a fine job of that, eh?

It's a work in progress.
But there has been some of that.
Supreme Court Limits Civil Asset Forfeiture, Rules Excessive Fines Apply To States
The First Step Act, Congress’s criminal justice reform bill, explained
DeVos to revamp Title IX guidance on sex assaults on college campus

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Then you've not been reading many or entire posts.

I don't plan to convince you that Trump
was the lesser of 2 evils in that election.
We're too far apart on the issues for that.
But I do ask you to not misrepresent my views.
I'll do my best to give you the same courtesy.

Mmhmm. You just got done with a nebulous 'they' argument against single-issue voting which seems to be misrepresenting pretty much everyone. All the while being unable to articulate exactly why Hillary is so much more of an evil except in one, single issue, based on supposition. But whatever, man.

 

[Revoltingest]

Mmhmm. You just got done with a nebulous 'they' argument against single-issue voting which seems to be misrepresenting pretty much everyone.

I tried to represent all the major views I could think of, including my own.
Note that I didn't attribute any to individuals.
So your mischievous accusation fails.

All the while being unable to articulate exactly why Hillary is so much more of an evil except in one, single issue, based on supposition. But whatever, man.

I've extensive given reasons for finding Trump the likely lesser of 2 evils.
To claim I cannot & have not is misrepresenting the truth, & my posting history.
I'm tolerant....I even allow that preferring Hillary can be reasonable.
We just disagree in our assessments.
But don't try to convince me that I don't hold all the views I hold.
That's just embarrassing for you.\
I say this because I care.