Who you vote for is indicative of what you may believe in

[Revoltingest]

And yet you can't even prove they exist.

To be fair, we can't prove anything regarding politics.

 

[Woberts]

To be fair, we can't prove anything regarding politics.

We're talking about a giant global conspiracy, probably run by Israel.
There's no evidence for this belief, nor will there ever be.

 

[Woberts]

Just accept the fact that if you didn't vote for Clinton you are morally corrupt.

You did actively vote against my civil rights, so yes. Yes you are.

 

[Revoltingest]

We're talking about a giant global conspiracy, probably run by Israel.
There's no evidence for this belief, nor will there ever be.

I know.
It's like....
The oligarchy
The military industrial complex
The patriarchy
The deep state
The atheist conspiracy (as though we're that smart or ambitious)
The anti-Christian conspiracy
The British Crown (I know one person who believes their queen is behind it all.)
I'm sure you can think of more.

 

[Revoltingest]

You did actively vote against my civil rights, so yes. Yes you are.

Well, everyone wants your civil rights curbed.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Dreamer.

Yep.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

The main problem with your objective, is that by bringing everyone up to our level, actually translates into reducing us to their level.

...That's not something I want for my children's children. It's not the ideals this country was founded on, which we ought to respect IMO.

Yes, the ideals the country was founded on.
The ORIGINAL settlers screwed up badly. Real badly.
If they had a ‘Trump’ leading their tribes, they could have built walls around the country to keep out those pesky Europeans.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Just accept the fact that if you didn't vote for Clinton you are morally corrupt.

I voted for Bernie, a real candidate and i'm voting for him again.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I know a few people who voted for Trump in the hope that his presidency would be a relatively mild shock to the system, getting people to pay more attention to politics and spur the American political framework further to the left rather than continue the unconscious rightward trend epitomized by HRC. I think sometimes it may have worked.

Unfortunately, voting for someone to "shock the system" did more harm than good. Sure it highlighted how anyone could run and be the president of the United States (of course if you have money and influence), but it also plays into the intelligence of the average U.S. citizen. What I learned from the last few years of Trump's presidency about my country is that a large portion of its citizens do not care that a politician has a questionable background filled with racism, sexism, and homophobia.

I believe if we as people lose our sense of empathy for the treatment of other human beings then who are we to demand to have a leader to uphold the constitution, yet we are willing to overlook injustices elsewhere and limit constitutional rights to others?

Trump called for the execution of the Central Park 5 even after they were exonerated.

Trump settled out of court for housing discrimination against African-Americans.

Trump has made Anti-Semitic remarks

Trump inappropriately grabbed women

Trump made inappropriate comments to McCain being captured insulting military P.O.W.

Trump endorsed the fringe theory of Obama's place of birth something no other president had to ever endure.

Using Obama as a litmus test, do you honestly think if Obama did exactly what I just mentioned, Obama would be universally liked? No. In fact it would exacerbate the white supremacists idea that it is dangerous to have people of color in office and the GOP would play that card both directly and indirectly. But because Trump shares the same pigmentation as 62% of the population of this country, and because he is wealthy, and "tells it like it is" it's okay.

 

[Revoltingest]

Unfortunately, voting for someone to "shock the system" did more harm than good. Sure it highlighted how anyone could run and be the president of the United States (of course if you have money and influence), but it also plays into the intelligence of the average U.S. citizen. What I learned from the last few years of Trump's presidency about my country is that a large portion of its citizens do not care that a politician has a questionable background filled with racism, sexism, and homophobia.

I believe if we as people lose our sense of empathy for the treatment of other human beings then who are we to demand to have a leader to uphold the constitution, yet we are willing to overlook injustices elsewhere and limit constitutional rights to others?

Trump called for the execution of the Central Park 5 even after they were exonerated.

Trump settled out of court for housing discrimination against African-Americans.

Trump has made Anti-Semitic remarks

Trump inappropriately grabbed women

Trump made inappropriate comments to McCain being captured insulting military P.O.W.

Trump endorsed the fringe theory of Obama's place of birth something no other president had to ever endure.

Using Obama as a litmus test, do you honestly think if Obama did exactly what I just mentioned, Obama would be universally liked? No. In fact it would exacerbate the white supremacists idea that it is dangerous to have people of color in office and the GOP would play that card both directly and indirectly. But because Trump shares the same pigmentation as 62% of the population of this country, and because he is wealthy, and "tells it like it is" it's okay.

What does your preference for Sanders say about you?
- He wants a socialist economy. (Make America Venezuela again?)
- He had sexual harassment problems with women in his campaign.
- He's supposed to be one of us commoners, but he owns 3 homes.
- Russians sought to boost his campaign in 2016.
- Bernie honeymooned in the USSR in 1988, perhaps making connections then.

So by your reasoning, your vote could mean defining
you as a misogynist socialist Russian sympathizer.


Ref....
3 Homes for Bernie! Sanders Reportedly Buys $600K Vermont Lake House
I Was Sexually Harassed on Bernie Sanders’s 2016 Campaign. I Will Not Be Weaponized or Dismissed.
Sanders silent on claim that Russians backed him in 2016

I preferred Bernie too, but I don't find the above criticisms significant
with respect to my vote. Other considerations are more important.
The same complexities appleid to my evaluation of Trump, btw.

 

[Duke_Leto]

What does your preference for Sanders say about you?
- He wants a socialist economy. (Make America Venezuela again?)

Blaming Venezuela's troubles on 'socialism' is uneducated at best. To what, out of curiosity, do you attribute its prior economic development after it nationalized its oil resources and instituted this 'socialist' economy?

For the record, neither Venezuela nor Sanders are socialist in any reasonable and modern definition of the word.

- He had sexual harassment problems with women in his campaign.

How ambiguous the passive voice can be. By 'had', you mean some of his staffers had.

- He's supposed to be one of us commoners, but he owns 3 homes.

Unfortunately true. One would hope his lifestyle isn't reflective of his politics.

- Russians sought to boost his campaign in 2016.

Just as ridiculous as the talk of Russia helping Trump's campaign.

- Bernie honeymooned in the USSR in 1988, perhaps making connections then.

...So?

I preferred Bernie too, but I don't find the above criticisms significant
with respect to my vote. Other considerations are more important.
The same complexities appleid to my evaluation of Trump, btw.

I'd be worried if you did find those criticisms significant.

 

[Duke_Leto]

Unfortunately, voting for someone to "shock the system" did more harm than good. Sure it highlighted how anyone could run and be the president of the United States (of course if you have money and influence), but it also plays into the intelligence of the average U.S. citizen. What I learned from the last few years of Trump's presidency about my country is that a large portion of its citizens do not care that a politician has a questionable background filled with racism, sexism, and homophobia.

I believe if we as people lose our sense of empathy for the treatment of other human beings then who are we to demand to have a leader to uphold the constitution, yet we are willing to overlook injustices elsewhere and limit constitutional rights to others?

Trump called for the execution of the Central Park 5 even after they were exonerated.

Trump settled out of court for housing discrimination against African-Americans.

Trump has made Anti-Semitic remarks

Trump inappropriately grabbed women

Trump made inappropriate comments to McCain being captured insulting military P.O.W.

Trump endorsed the fringe theory of Obama's place of birth something no other president had to ever endure.

Using Obama as a litmus test, do you honestly think if Obama did exactly what I just mentioned, Obama would be universally liked? No. In fact it would exacerbate the white supremacists idea that it is dangerous to have people of color in office and the GOP would play that card both directly and indirectly. But because Trump shares the same pigmentation as 62% of the population of this country, and because he is wealthy, and "tells it like it is" it's okay.

Respectfully, the points you listed referred to Trump's personal actions or rhetoric, not actions he made related to actual governmental work. Though I agree his election's unearthed a nasty underbelly to the country, I don't think these points are enough to definitively say Trump was the wrong choice -- he hasn't run the country into the ground, yet.

The real kicker is the crisis at the border. That's the main horror of his presidency.

 

[Revoltingest]

Blaming Venezuela's troubles on 'socialism' is uneducated at best.

Are you claiming superior education?

To what, out of curiosity, do you attribute its prior economic development after it nationalized its oil resources and instituted this 'socialist' economy?

I don't understand the question.
But I found a link which briefly explores their problems....
http://thefederalist.com/2018/05/09...lems-caused-socialism-not-falling-oil-prices/

For the record, neither Venezuela nor Sanders are socialist in any reasonable and modern definition of the word.
How ambiguous the passive voice can be. By 'had', you mean some of his staffers had.
Unfortunately true. One would hope his lifestyle isn't reflective of his politics.
Just as ridiculous as the talk of Russia helping Trump's campaign.
...So?
I'd be worried if you did find those criticisms significant.

You're inferring something different from what I intended.
I never said all of these criticisms were cromulent.
But they are nonetheless criticisms commonly heard about Bernie,
just as the poster (EBM) expressed commonly heard criticisms (not all
cromulent either) about Trump. Using his own rationale, I diagnosed
what this said about him. This was to illustrate the fallacy of his
diagnosing others based upon whom they voted for.

Note that I too was willing to vote for Bernie over Trump. This wasn't
because I agreed with him on much, but rather that I thought his net
effect in office would've been better than either Hillary or Donald.

 

[Revoltingest]

The real kicker is the crisis at the border. That's the main horror of his presidency.

Would you call the crisis an "emergency"?

 

[Duke_Leto]

Are you claiming superior education?

If you actually content Venezuela is an example of a socialist economy, sure -- socialism is not 'government control of business'.

I don't understand the question.
But I found a link which briefly explores their problems....
http://thefederalist.com/2018/05/09...lems-caused-socialism-not-falling-oil-prices/

What I'm saying is that no article of this type attributed Venezuela's prior economic success to 'socialism', but as soon as the economy crashed, it's 'socialism' causing its problems. In a similar vein the States' economic successes are attributed to capitalism, but not its failures -- and generally, in the event of a crash, magazines like that will attribute it to 'implementing socialist policies' or something similar.

You're inferring something different from what I intended.
I never said all of these criticisms were cromulent.
But they are nonetheless criticisms commonly heard about Bernie,
just as the poster (EBM) expressed commonly heard criticisms (not all
cromulent either) about Trump. Using his own rationale, I diagnosed
what this said about him. This was to illustrate the fallacy of his
diagnosing others based upon whom they voted for.

Apologies then. It seemed to me you were saying these were serious issues it was difficult to compromise on.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you actually content Venezuela is an example of a socialist economy, sure -- socialism is not 'government control of business'.

We can agree to disagree whether Venezuela is socialist.

What I'm saying is that no article of this type attributed Venezuela's prior economic success to 'socialism', but as soon as the economy crashed, it's 'socialism' causing its problems. In a similar vein the States' economic successes are attributed to capitalism, but not its failures -- and generally, in the event of a crash, magazines like that will attribute it to 'implementing socialist policies' or something similar.

Socialism tends to make economies inflexible when coping with change.
And you won't catch me saying that Ameristanian capitalism is perfect.
No system is. Some just function better than others.

Apologies then. It seemed to me you were saying these were serious issues it was difficult to compromise on.

I tried to be clear about that in the post to EBM, but I failed.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Respectfully, the points you listed referred to Trump's personal actions or rhetoric, not actions he made related to actual governmental work. Though I agree his election's unearthed a nasty underbelly to the country, I don't think these points are enough to definitively say Trump was the wrong choice -- he hasn't run the country into the ground, yet.

The real kicker is the crisis at the border. That's the main horror of his presidency.

So wait, it's not enough that in a leadership position such as being an authoritative figure for housing and being sued and having to settle out of court isn't enough? So basically what you're saying is "yeah he did some bad stuff but he didn't do it as a leader." You cannot compare business with the presidency. People forget that the president cannot run a country like a business because there are checks and balances. If one's past is not indicative of their future or who they have developed themselves to be then surely you my friend are blinded by ignorance.

The fact that you mentioned the border being "a crisis" is enough for me to end this temporary discussion because you're slopping up the same muck rhetoric Trump has his base eating.

 

[Revoltingest]

....surely you my friend are blinded by ignorance.

 

[Duke_Leto]

So wait, it's not enough that in a leadership position such as being an authoritative figure for housing and being sued and having to settle out of court isn't enough? So basically what you're saying is "yeah he did some bad stuff but he didn't do it as a leader." You cannot compare business with the presidency. People forget that the president cannot run a country like a business because there are checks and balances. If one's past is not indicative of their future or who they have developed themselves to be then surely you my friend are blinded by ignorance.

The fact that you mentioned the border being "a crisis" is enough for me to end this temporary discussion because you're slopping up the same muck rhetoric Trump has his base eating.

It's a crisis when children are being locked up in cages, yes. What's not a crisis is people crossing a line in the sand.