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Spice

StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Do you think there are any esoteric reasons for the stories?
I'm sure. IMO all of the Bible is written in code only to be deciphered by those who need to see the wisdom hidden.

I appreciated the stories of David best by reading the narrative non-fictions written by author Jill Eileen Smith in the series The Wives of King David. I also had a clearer understanding of Abraham from her series The Wives of the Patriarchs. And yes, for anyone reading this and wondering, she followed the sacred texts and her researched historical resources very closely. No conflicts found between the scriptures and her expanded narrative.
 

JustGeorge

Imperfect
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm sure. IMO all of the Bible is written in code only to be deciphered by those who need to see the wisdom hidden.

I appreciated the stories of David best by reading the narrative non-fictions written by author Jill Eileen Smith in the series The Wives of King David. I also had a clearer understanding of Abraham from her series The Wives of the Patriarchs. And yes, for anyone reading this and wondering, she followed the sacred texts and her researched historical resources very closely. No conflicts found between the scriptures and her expanded narrative.
Those sound interesting.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Yeah, but that sending her husband to the frontlines of the war so he could have her permanently was a bit much. Not to mention presenting Saul all those foreskins as proof of the enemy killed. You would think that would have been proof of those converted. :shrug:
Yep, he was a real piece of work.
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
I personally like King David and his story.

@Kathryn
Was King David prefect before the oil was pouring on him? How does oil communicate?

Vocabulary practice: (1) Perfect means no error. (2) Prefect means a person born in a situation to rule.

@GoodAttention
Has oil ever communicated in Hinduism similar to King David? Because how does oil communicate to people?
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
@Kathryn
Was King David prefect before the oil was pouring on him? How does oil communicate?

Vocabulary practice: (1) Perfect means no error. (2) Prefect means a person born in a situation to rule.

@GoodAttention
Has oil ever communicated in Hinduism similar to King David? Because how does oil communicate to people?
I personally believe that David was born to be a king.
 

GoodAttention

Well-Known Member
@GoodAttention
Has oil ever communicated in Hinduism similar to King David? Because how does oil communicate to people?

My opinion is that it is symbolic. King David becomes the embodiment of light.

To ancient people oil = light, since oil is "burned" to give light. Depending on the oil used there could be a significance?

Oil would also have value, so to then use it ceremonially by pouring over a person, instead of lamps, the reason would have to be great.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
This thread has an unusual frame-of-reference but I was reminded about Milarepa, Tibet's most famous "yogi" who used occult powers to punish a wrong doer, a spiritual nono, and then repented and became perfect after severe austerities.
 
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GoodAttention

Well-Known Member
I'm sure. IMO all of the Bible is written in code only to be deciphered by those who need to see the wisdom hidden.

yES.

I appreciated the stories of David best by reading the narrative non-fictions written by author Jill Eileen Smith in the series The Wives of King David. I also had a clearer understanding of Abraham from her series The Wives of the Patriarchs. And yes, for anyone reading this and wondering, she followed the sacred texts and her researched historical resources very closely. No conflicts found between the scriptures and her expanded narrative.

Behind every "great" man is an even greater woman who reminds him not to **** up.
 

Betho_br

Active Member
I personally like King David and his story.


David, a central figure in Israel's history, lived a life full of details that are often overlooked. One of the most iconic moments is his confrontation with Goliath. David chose five smooth stones from the brook (1 Samuel 17:40), though the exact reason for this choice isn't explicitly mentioned in the text. However, Goliath had four brothers (2 Samuel 21:15-22), which could have motivated David's selection of five stones, perhaps as preparation for facing the other giants.

When David stepped onto the battlefield, the nation of Israel was kneeling on the mountainside, unable to see the battle unfolding in the valley below (1 Samuel 17:3, 19-20). Even Goliath, upon seeing David, mistook his sling for a stick, saying, "Am I a dog, that you come to me with sticks?" (1 Samuel 17:43). After Goliath fell, what the people of Israel saw was a young man holding the giant’s head, and many might have assumed that he had won with Goliath’s sword. But in truth, it was the stone from David’s sling that brought the victory (1 Samuel 17:49-51).

Another significant episode was David's anointing by Samuel. God had rejected all of Jesse's other sons, and Samuel, after they all passed before him, said, "We will not sit down until he arrives" (1 Samuel 16:11). However, Samuel seemed to have sat down, as God corrected him, telling him that David, the youngest, was the chosen one: "Rise and anoint him; this is the one" (1 Samuel 16:12). This highlights a moment when Samuel initially overlooked David, but God affirmed His choice.

After this, David became a military leader at Saul's court (1 Samuel 18:5). However, he was very different from the other soldiers at the table. His merciful nature led to Saul’s growing jealousy and persecution, especially after an incident where David helped someone, possibly a Philistine. This resulted in false accusations, including being labeled a thief. David himself expresses this in Psalm 69:4: "Those who hate me without cause outnumber the hairs of my head; many are my enemies without reason. Those who seek to destroy me accuse me falsely; what I did not steal, I then have to restore."

During his exile, David sought refuge in Philistine territory, where he had to feign madness to survive (1 Samuel 21:10-15). When David finally became king, one of the darkest moments of his life occurred when he desired Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah, one of his loyal soldiers who was at war (2 Samuel 11:2-3). When David asked who the woman was, his servant responded, “She is Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite” (2 Samuel 11:3), emphasizing that she was already married. This response was unusual, as genealogies typically referred to a person’s father, not their spouse. The servant was clearly warning David, but he ignored the advice and committed adultery. The rest of the story, including Uriah’s death and the tragic consequences, are well-known (2 Samuel 11:14-17).

This narrative reveals both the greatness and the flaws of David, showing how he was a powerful man, yet vulnerable to mistakes and weaknesses, like any other human being.
 

mangalavara

नमस्कार
Premium Member
I am noting that most of the great lessons to be learned in religion and mythology are the results of somebody's **** up.

That’s a pretty good discovery or insight.

What are some screw ups that have had meaning to you?

One screw up that has meaning to me lately is the story of Hayagrīva, who is Viṣṇu as the Horse-Faced One.

As recorded in the Devī Bhāgavatam, Canto 1, Chapter 5, there was a time when Hari looked at his consort, Lakṣmī, and laughed. Lakṣmī figured that he laughed at her either because he saw something ugly in her face or that he found himself a second consort. Not at all liking the idea of being one of two consorts, Lakṣmī became angry and the Tamas Śakti entered her. So, Lakṣmī caused Hari’s head to be removed and fall into the ocean.

Meanwhile, there was a dānava, a type of asura known as Hayagrīva, the Horse-Faced One. He did tapas for a long time and it pleased Parāśakti. In response, she granted him whatever boon he wanted. The dānava asked her to make it to where the only thing that could kill him would be something with a horse face, a being that reflects the meaning of his own name. The boon was granted to him.

Then, that dānava, Hayagrīva, being practically immortal, wreaked havoc on the devas. They heard that he could only be killed by something with a horse face. So, Viśvakarmā, the craftsman of the devas, picked up his axe, chopped off the head of a horse, and attached the horse’s head to the headless Hari. After being requested by the devas to defeat the dānava, Hari went to him and killed him by force, for he was the only being who could do it. That is how Hari acquired the name Hayagrīva.

So, in this sacred story, who screwed up? Was it Hari? Was it Śrī? Was it perhaps the dānava? Regardless of who screwed up, the outcome was beneficial for the devas. All in all, it demonstrates the līlā and sovereignty of Parāśakti, the Mahāmāyā.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Who reminds great women not to **** up?
When it comes to great religious/spiritual figures there have been figures like Rabia of Basra, St. Teresa of Avila, Mirabai and many others. One of the best rebukes that I know of was Rabia's conversation with Hasan about the lack of value of cheap "miracles":
One day Hasan AlBasri saw Rabia near a lake. He threw his prayer rug on top of the water and said:​
"Rabia come! Let us pray two rakat here."​
She replied:​
"Hasan, when you are showing off your spiritual goods in the worldly market, it should be things which your fellow men cannot display."​
She then threw her prayer rug into the air and flew up onto it saying:​
"Come up here, Hasan, where people can see us."​
Then she said:​
"Hasan, what you did, fish can do, and what I did, flies can do. But the real business is outside these tricks. One must apply oneself to the real business."​
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I am noting that most of the great lessons to be learned in religion and mythology are the results of somebody's **** up.

For example, the Abrahamic religions wouldn't exist if Eve had chosen an appropriate fruit. The Mahabharata starts out with someone mistreating a puppy. We have dear Ganesh with his elephant's head because of Shiva losing his temper. King Arthur exists because his father tricked another guy's wife. Many religious figures are very flawed... yet loved anyways.

What are some screw ups that have had meaning to you?

(Note: Respectfully asking, if you think all religion is a screw up, and don't have anything productive to add, this isn't the thread for you.)

For myself at least, I look forward to my **** ups. This provides for me the greatest opportunity to learn. If everything goes right, then no learning is needed. It be interesting I think to go back and look at religion as a matter of self correction. Though I think perhaps religion has lost some of this inclination for self correction.

If you believe something to be the "truth", well the truth can't be corrected.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
For myself at least, I look forward to my **** ups. This provides for me the greatest opportunity to learn. If everything goes right, then no learning is needed. It be interesting I think to go back and look at religion as a matter of self correction. Though I think perhaps religion has lost some of this inclination for self correction.

If you believe something to be the "truth", well the truth can't be corrected.
People screw up. People learn by realizing they've screwed up and trying to correct it. Watch a young child learning something.
 
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