Who's getting the shot?

[Heyo]

That's my problem, and I don't know why it's so controversial.

The problem is that we need consensus. Or, more precisely, an about 70% vaccination for herd immunity. And we don't even know that for a fact, just an estimate from other transmittable diseases.
As mandatory vaccinations are frowned upon in democracies and only further conspiracy theories, people must be convinced (or at least persuaded). Peer pressure is a good method to get consensus. You resist peer pressure (and reason, but that's not the question here) and are a risk as you could "infect" others with your opinion.
It isn't personal, you are just a statistic. What counts is to get the 70%.

 

[exchemist]

I said what I had to say to you. I'm sure you saw it before it was scrubbed.

No, actually. Doesn't seem as if I was missing much, though.

 

[exchemist]

All treatments "may" be unsafe in many ways. Many treatments are ineffective to one degree or another. My question is why does COVID vaccine have more "special criteria" of being effective than other treatments that have been around for years and used (say chemotherapy) and still have huge side affects?

It doesn't mean the vaccine is a placebo effect. It just means people are jumping up on high ends trying to get this shot where others say "hold on... wait a second..." as one would do for any other new treatment. I mean, when I got my surgery in 2003, the procedure was still considered "new" ten years or so. We didn't just go off of what scientist and doctors say. We (my parent and I) made our own decisions on the trustworthiness of a given surgery. It's a risk but I wouldn't down anyone who does not want to take that risk

Vaccine included.



I don't believe the vaccine will kill you. I think @Rival is more skeptical than many on RF and so am I. Skepticism is highly necessary for things like this. It's one thing to say "okay, let me try Aspirin instead of Advil this time since the doctors okayed it" and it's another to take something for a ideally deadly disease just as someone would get a new prescription from their doctors.

Do you think it's logical to be more skeptical over this because of the seriousness of it?

Taking the risk is one thing, but I do feel Rival has a point. I disagree that they are (edit-myths). In my opinion, just people are jumping ship for every number and person they see on the television screen. I mean, if I did that, gosh... Personally, I'd stick with what my doctors tell me since they know me more than a scientist who knows nothing about my health or any of that.

No, I don't. Far from it. The seriousness of the situation requires us all to put any scepticism we have to the test, by informing ourselves properly, to see whether or not it is justified. Just sitting back passively and saying we are "sceptical" is inexcusable in a situation like this.

Scepticism due to lack of information can be overcome by informing yourself. As follows:-

There is negligible risk from the vaccine. The trials show that abundantly. We also know from the trials that the vaccine stops you getting symptoms, in 70-90% of cases. This gives us excellent reasons to believe it will greatly reduce transmission in the population. Whereas if you don't get vaccinated, there is far from negligible risk from the virus, both to you and to others.

Those facts taken together make it both irrational and selfish not to get vaccinated. It really is that simple.

Scepticism based on false information, believed because it fits a preconceived prejudice, is something else of course. That is far more intractable.

 

[Thief]

if making report is still allowed
23 die in Norway after receiving Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine

 

[Thief]

So are you.

I recall it was you that insisted on citation

 

[exchemist]

if making report is still allowed
23 die in Norway after receiving Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine

Yes. These were all very frail people over 80 in nursing homes, near the end of life. The side effects of the Pfizer vaccine can apparently sometimes include fever and occasionally some nausea. So Norway is adjusting its advice for very frail and extremely old people.

My 93 yr old father, who is himself in a nursing home, had the Pfizer vaccine 2 weeks ago and reported no side effects at all. The UK has now vaccinated 3.5 million people, most of them over 80, and there have not been any reports of significant problems.

 

[Quagmire]

I recall it was you that insisted on citation

I'm not even going to bother to ask you what this has to do with anything.

 

[Jainarayan]

That's irrational, since (i) we know from the trials that it IS safe and (ii) none of the material you have cited as a reason not to take the vaccine says anything to the contrary

How extensive were the trials? Can you guarantee that I, or he, or they, or that person, that man, that child won’t have a negative reaction? You’re making sweeping pronouncements you can’t possibly know.

 

[Cooky]

I don't care what kind of drugs are in my body. So yeah, I'll probably get it if I'm not too lazy or drunk.

 

[exchemist]

How extensive were the trials? Can you guarantee that I, or he, or they, or that person, that man, that child won’t have a negative reaction? You’re making sweeping pronouncements you can’t possibly know.

It is all public knowledge. The trials were very extensive, involving tens of thousands of people in multiple countries. And we have now administered 3.5 million doses in the UK. That also is public knowledge. And there has been nothing in the press about adverse reactions, apart from the usual few allergic responses one gets with any vaccine. So it's all going pretty well, I'm pleased to say. Nothing I have said is at all controversial - at least to people who know what they are talking about.

By the way, my estimate of the US deaths, which you told me was alarmist misinformation, has proved to be an underestimate. So your level of knowledge about this issue seems fairly poor.

 

[Jainarayan]

It is all public knowledge. The trials were very extensive, involving tens of thousands of people in multiple countries. And we have now administered 3.5 million doses in the UK. That also is public knowledge. And there has been nothing in the press about adverse reactions, apart from the usual few allergic responses one gets with any vaccine. So it's all going pretty well, I'm pleased to say. Nothing I have said is at all controversial - at least to people who know what they are talking about.

By the way, my estimate of the US deaths, which you told me was alarmist misinformation, has proved to be an underestimate. So your level of knowledge about this issue seems fairly poor

Oh, I see, it’s public knowledge. Uh huh. Tens of thousands... hmm. With a US population of over 330 million and allegedly one of the hardest hit countries. Yeah that’s extensive. What is your estimate of US deaths? The latest is 397,000. What’s your number? Let’s have sources for these assertions. Otherwise they just sound like gleanings and personal observations.

 

[exchemist]

Oh, I see, it’s public knowledge. Uh huh. Tens of thousands... hmm. With a US population of over 330 million and allegedly one of the hardest hit countries. Yeah that’s extensive. What is your estimate of US deaths? The latest is 397,000. What’s your number?

The population of the US has no bearing on the number needed to establish safety of a vaccine. Anyone who understands statistics would realise that.

I have made no further estimate of US deaths since the second wave is in full swing now, so people can see for themselves just by looking at the news. You are on for over half a million dead, according to the reports I have seen. But, if the figure you now quote is right, that suggests it will be considerably higher than half a million, perhaps more like 600-700 000, as the epidemic is nowhere near being got under control yet.

 

[Secret Chief]

I'm planning on enough refuseniks to move me up the queue or else fast-tracking myself to morbidly obese to move me up to a higher category.

 

[exchemist]

I'm planning on enough refuseniks to move me up the queue or else fast-tracking myself to morbidly obese to move me up to a higher category.

Yeah it is personally nice for us rational people to get vaccinated earlier, but the trouble is if we get too many refuseniks we won't reach herd immunity and that will mean none of us can get back to normal life.

 

[Secret Chief]

Yeah it is personally nice for us rational people to get vaccinated earlier, but the trouble is if we get too many refuseniks we won't reach herd immunity and that will mean none of us can get back to normal life.

Yeah, I just want enough to move me up but not so many to prevent immunity.
The govt seems to be working on the assumption of 70% uptake, which hopefully is high enough. The other 30% presumably going to be using a magic wand.

Currently working on my fall back plan of obesity.

 

[Cooky]

I don't see why anyone would be worried about this shot. It's not like they're injecting you with strontium-90 molecules.

 

[Jainarayan]

You are on for over half a million dead, according to the reports I have seen. But, if the figure you now quote is right, that suggests it will be considerably higher than half a million, perhaps more like 600-700 000, as the epidemic is nowhere near being got under control yet.

Ok, stop, just stop... projections that unless you provide your qualifications, you’re giving potentially false information and guesses based on reports you’ve seen. What reports? Citations?

https://www.google.com/search?q=us+...j0j7&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

[Cooky]

come on guys, March marks the 1 year anniversary of "covid"...

...Let's kill this ***** once and for all.

 

[Vinayaka]

Here's a link to a site that gives the statistics for doing surveys. For an error margin of less that 1%, a population of 300 million, you need a sample size of just over 9000 people.

Sample size calculator - CheckMarket

 

[Cooky]

If you don't get a shot, that means you love covid... Sitting in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g. first comes love, then comes marriage, then comes baby covid in a baby carriage. haha... Wimps.