Who's Patriotic Now?

[Druidus]

RECOGNIZING THOSE WHO SERVED



It is interesting to note who is willing to put his life on the line for what he believes in...and who is not. This could be the last election where military service in Vietnam has any political currency.

But just for the record, it's worth noting who really served among the heavyweights in each of the major political parties. Be sure to check out the bottom of the list where the people who spend their time jabbering about military service, (the TV pundits) have their military credentials exposed. Read it and weep.


DEMOCRATS

Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as
an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor,WWII.
John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star
with Combat V Purple Hearts.
John Edwards: did not serve.
Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-1953.
Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve,1968-74.
Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII, receiving
the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs,
Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal.
Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple
Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne,
Purple Heart.
Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine
in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
Chuck Robb: Vietnam
Howell Heflin: Silver Star
George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but received 311.
Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal
with 18 Clusters.
Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved
by Raoul Wallenberg.
Wesley Clark: U.S. Army, 1966-2000, West Point, Vietnam,
Purple Heart, Silver Star. Retired 4-star general.
John Dingell: WWII vet
John Conyers: Army 1950-57, Korea



REPUBLICANS

Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
Tom Delay: did not serve.
House Whiip Roy Blunt: did not serve.
Bill Frist: did not serve.
Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
George Pataki: did not serve.
Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
Rick Santorum: did not serve.
Trent Lott: did not serve.
Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last
by marriage.
John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach
business.
Jeb Bush: did not serve.
Karl Rove: did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss: did not serve; "Bad knee." This is the man who
attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
Vin Weber: did not serve.
Richard Perle: did not serve.
Douglas Feith: did not serve.
Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
Richard Shelby: did not serve.
Jon Kyl: did not serve.
Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
Christopher Cox: did not serve.
Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as aviator and
flight instructor.
George W. Bush: six-year Nat'l Guard commitment(incomplete).
Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a
non-combat role making movies.
Gerald Ford: Navy, WWII
Phil Gramm: did not serve.
John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
Bob Dole: an honorable veteran.
Chuck Hagel: two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Jeff Sessions: Army Reserves, 1973-1986
JC Watts: did not serve.
Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
G.H.W. Bush: Pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese.
Tom Ridge: Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam.
Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
Clarence Thomas: did not serve


PUNDITS AND PREACHERS

Sean Hannity: did not serve.
Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
Michael Savage: did not serve.
George Will: did not serve.
Chris Matthews: did not serve.
Paul Gigot: did not serve.
Bill Bennett: did not serve.
Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
Bill Kristol: did not serve.
Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
Michael Medved: did not serve.

 

[Scott1]

Thanks Druidus for this.... as a veteran myself, the PUNDITS AND PREACHERS section makes me cringe.

Scott

 

[Sunstone]

In all likelihood, there is no form of life lower than a pundit, except on occassion a politician.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Read it and weep.

As they say: "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. So, a couple of questions:

• What period of time is spanned by those listed?
• Over that period of time, how many Democrats served in the Congress, the Senate, and the Presidency?
• How many of these did you not list?
• Why?
• Will you offer your personal guarantee that the list you offered is representative?
• If so, based on what information?
• If not, why would you submit a potentially misleading list?
• Over that period of time, how many Democrats served in the Congress, the Senate, and the Presidency?
• How many of these did you not list?
• Why?
• Will you offer your personal guarantee that the list you offered is representative?
• If so, based on what information?
• If not, why would you submit a potentially misleading list?
• Over that period of time, how so-called pundits and preachers were active?
• How many of these did you not list?
• Why?
• Will you offer your personal guarantee that the list you offered is representative?
• If so, based on what information?
• If not, why would you submit a potentially misleading list?

Thanks.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Even though I like all of them, I was thinking to add Jon Stewart, Michael Moore and Al Franken to the list of "Pundits." (I'm trying to teach myself to remember that if I followed them blindly, I'd be no less biased than those who rely soley on Bill O'Reilly for their news) Then I remembered that none of them has ever pretended to have actually known the horrors of war, seem to have nothing but respect for those that are having to fight it, and that at least Al Franken has gone over there to do comedy shows for the troops.

I think that if I were a Republican, I was be outraged at what this administration has done to the name.

 

[Druidus]

• [*]What period of time is spanned by those listed?
  [*]Over that period of time, how many Democrats served in the Congress, the Senate, and the Presidency?
  [*]How many of these did you not list?
  [*]Why?
  [*]Will you offer your personal guarantee that the list you offered is representative?
  [*]If so, based on what information?
  [*]If not, why would you submit a potentially misleading list?
  [*]Over that period of time, how many Democrats served in the Congress, the Senate, and the Presidency?
  [*]How many of these did you not list?
  [*]Why?
  [*]Will you offer your personal guarantee that the list you offered is representative?
  [*]If so, based on what information?

If not, why would you submit a potentially misleading list?

I don't know. Would you care to refute them? I found it on another post and thought I'd post it here. I'd be glad to hear your refutations.

 

[lilithu]

Druidus, would you be able to tell me where this information came from? It's perfect for my new web site but I need to be able to back such claims up, or at least refer the responsibility to someone else. thanks! -lilith

 

[Sunstone]

It seems to me that it's a sign of the times so many people who shape public opinion about the use of our military, and/or make decisions about where our troops are deployed, should be people who were themselves never in the military. That's likely to be the case for many years into the future, because we have an all volunteer military nowadays.

 

[lilithu]

It seems to me that it's a sign of the times so many people who shape public opinion about the use of our military, and/or make decisions about where our troops are deployed, should be people who were themselves never in the military. That's likely to be the case for many years into the future, because we have an all volunteer military nowadays.

I'm not a "fan" of Michael Moore. I find his vitriol as distasteful as that of those on "the other side." But I do appreciate that he makes some good points, which then tend to get lost in the vitriol....

Anyway, as he showed in that last movie, the volunteer army is more voluntary for people from higher socio-economic classes and less so for people from lower. Yes, there is no one forcing anyone to enlist, but for kids where prospects are bleak, the military was sold as a way to pull oneself up. The end result is that richer people get to make the decisions about whether or not to go to war and the poorer people are the ones who die disproportionately. It's easier to decide to fight when your children and the children of the people you know are not at risk.

I'm not presenting this as a partisan argument, btw. Kerry is just as rich as Bush.

 

[Sunstone]

Kinda reminds me of the Roman Empire in the balmy days of its decline, Lilithu. Wasn't it true then that the Roman legions increasingly were manned by non-Roman foot soldiers? I think the result was the same: The people who made the decisions were increasingly people who did not do the actual fighting and dying.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'd be glad to hear your refutations.

Refute what? That plagiarizing a cherry-picked list to infer a point by innuendo is unconvincing and unethical?

 

[Druidus]

There was no author listed Deut. I don't know if it's cherry-picked. I didn't write it, so I cannot comment on it's factual basis. If you feel that it is a false list, then don't just try to portray the messenger as unethical, or conniving in his manner, get proof that it is.

innuendo

Dictionary.com says:

in·nu·en·do
n. pl. in·nu·en·does

1. An indirect or subtle, usually derogatory implication in expression; an insinuation.

I did not insinuate anything, and neither was the message indirect/subtle. I merely compared. There was no innuende.

unconvincing

If the list is true, then yes, it does happen to be true. If it's not, then yes, it is unconvincing. Prove the list wrong, if you believe it to be so.

unethical

I assume you mean that it is unethical to lie? I did not lie, I merely posted what was posted by another, and I cannot validate the list at all. I admit that. Can you invalidate the list?

I can say the Earth is round, but I cannot prove it (without an elaborate, although inexpensive, experiment). Should I never tell anyone the Earth is round if they ask for the shape of the Earth? I cannot prove that plants produce the effect of roots going down and stems going up because of heavy starch deposits, but many believe it to be true. Should I no longer tell anyone that? Until future evidence comes about to prove it wrong, that is all I have to go by. Perhaps you could assist me...

 

[Sunstone]

Druidus, could you provide us with a link to your source for the list?

 

[Druidus]

Indeed, here you are (I'd find the forum I found it on, but I don't want to dig through my history to find it):

http://www.georgiapeace.org/cheney.html (This one looks a bit more complete. The Republicans are a bit more rounded out now)

http://www.peaceaware.com/documents/who_served_in_the_military.htm

http://www.sunmt.org/sep30chron04.html

http://www.cortexity.com:8080/blog/2004/10/09.html

 

[Mr Spinkles]

This one looks a bit more complete. The Republicans are a bit more rounded out now

Somehow I got the impression that a more "complete" list would have that effect.

 

[lilithu]

Somehow I got the impression that a more "complete" list would have that effect.

Did you look at the more complete list? Still not looking too good for the Grand Ole Party - the party that claims to be more in tune with the military.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Here are the Senate's WWII Vets:

http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/resources/pdf/WW2vets.pdf

 

[Yerda]

The Republicans are a bit more rounded out now

That's why they're called 'Fat Cats'.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Did you look at the more complete list? Still not looking too good for the Grand Ole Party

- the party that claims to be more in tune with the military.

Yes, I looked at the list--did you? Still not looking too good for the Democratic Party--the party that claims to be more anti-war.

 

[lilithu]

Yes, I looked at the list--did you? Still not looking too good for the Democratic Party--the party that claims to be more anti-war.

Anti-war is not the same thing as anti-military or anti-service. No one knows better than a soldier the cost of war.