Who's Patriotic Now?

[Andra130]

Andra is perfectly capable of defending herself/himself, but I read Andra's comment not as an attempt at a logical argument against criticism, but as an appeal to empathy. Instead of pointing fingers at the other side let's take a minute to examine whether we could live up to the ideals that we're requiring of others. And have we taken their circumstances, which may be different than our own, into account. If one honestly decides that one can and has, then of course one can criticize. Hell, one can criticize no matter what, as most of us show each day, including myself. But that's all that I thought Andra was saying.

Thanks Lilithu-

That was more or less the direction I was trying to take with my post.

As far as returning to the original issue, I don’t believe that the parties ever have “walked their talk”. After taking that into consideration we have to realize that it was those of us who are Americans that put them in that position so should we really be upset with them or with our selves (assuming of course that they were honest about their stances etc when we elected them).

As far as the girl who joined the military to escape poverty I can totally relate. I was in just about the same position but I hardly see it as selling my soul… after all, with out a military the U.S. and its liberties would not exist.



“For it is better that one man perish…”



And as far as “consciously slanted statistics” go…. well, they ALL could be construed that way. I do NOT claim to be an expert but I am majoring in Sociology and even having taken just a couple of stats classes and social research methods courses it seems apparent that statistics are fairly subjective regardless. One man’s truth is another man’s lie?? Just something to consider…

 

[Valjean]

Do you really think we'd be invaded by a despotic power if we disbanded our military, Andra?

There are countries in Europe that could practically be overrun by a Boy Scout troupe, that have existed for some time, and are not worried overmuch about being invaded.

I think most people would leave us alone if we did the same.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

There are countries in Europe that could practically be overrun by a Boy Scout troupe, that have existed for some time, and are not worried overmuch about being invaded.

Do you think that would continue to be the case if it weren't for the protection of America and NATO's large military?

 

[Valjean]

Perhaps we should cede our military to NATO or the UN and stop rattling our sabres at the rest of the world.

 

[lilithu]

Perhaps we should cede our military to NATO or the UN and stop rattling our sabres at the rest of the world.

I say this as someone who was absolutely and utterly opposed to the war in Iraq and who supports the idea of the UN in theory....

The UN has yet to prove the value of their existence. They are a clumsy bureauracracy. Their decisions are based on politics, not what is right. They act when they ought not and they do not act when they ought. In the course of history, they have done at least as much harm as good.

I still support the idea of a UN in theory. But I would not cede our power to defend ourselves or others to anyone.

 

[No*s]

Perhaps we should cede our military to NATO or the UN and stop rattling our sabres at the rest of the world.

So...to avoid the sabre-rattling, we cede our military to an organization that seems quite comfortable with genocide, and really doesn't do any good? I don't think I could do that. Mr. Bush may be quite comfortable with war, but the UN is worse IMO, and I wouldn't support submitting our military totally to it at any time.

 

[TheIdealist]

Perhaps we should cede our military to NATO or the UN and stop rattling our sabres at the rest of the world.- Seyorni

Perhaps you should go join nato or the UN. Go be away from your family in combat zone where your not even aloud to defend yourself or really help people. Dude you have know idea whats going on outside your box, You should rethink your thoughts there is alot more going on than you think.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Perhaps we should cede our military to NATO or the UN and stop rattling our sabres at the rest of the world.

Please answer the question.

 

[Druidus]

The UN is no more effective than the "League of Nations" was, if that. We are afraid to give severe repercussions, such as trade embargoes, to countries who deserve it. I too, support the UN, in theory, but certainly not in practice, the way it is now.

 

[Yerda]

Do you think that would continue to be the case if it weren't for the protection of America and NATO's large military?

Good point. I agree. Probably.