Who's teaching should a Christian focus on?

[Civil Shephard]

For the last few years I've been to many a church service and found that the teaching of Jesus take a back burner to all other portions of scripture. I've found this trend to be annoying frankly. It seems to me that folks are chasing after the latest pet doctine. So I find myself getting thoroughly judgemental during many services and late for the door at times.

But getting past the feeling of "who am I to think this way" I wish to pose a question of the presentation of Christ in most media and most churches. Studies show that "our most segregated hour" is still that way in most American churches. When I leave most congregations I feel as if the focus and presentation of the Gospel leaves the hungry and thirsty, hungry and thirsty. Where are Christians teaching the words of Christ?

When I've asked this of some of the places I've been very few have listened. I have proposed that a simple reading of the Sermon on the Mount would be superior to most of what is being said and preached in most Christian churches. And... well, who am I to be saying this to someone with a church who has a congregation of tithers?

Whose teaching should a Christian focus on? I think the answer is simple. The teachings of Christ. But why when I approach most Christians on this matter is there so much rebuttal?

 

[outhouse]

jesus is harder to follow and children and old people get lost quickly before a point can be made their minds are somewhere else.

I dont know they could be following the old KISS rule

 

[uu_sage]

Preach it, brother! We as the body of Christ should be focusing on Christ's teachings rather than the doctrines made up about him by men of the church. The reason they don't embody the religion of Jesus is because Jesus demands that people give up their complacency, their preconceived notions of who or what God is, their pet doctrines, their lack of compassion and forgiveness. They would have to change not only the narrow theology and do away with the domesticated God they would also have to change the culture of the church itself. They would have to clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned, seek the release of God's oppressed children and to welcome those of God's children whom the mainstream church has traditionally excluded. They would have to recognize the light of God within each person and see the face of Christ on each person. I assure you that if God were to come to Earth along with Jesus and to see the injustices committed in God's and Jesus's names, they would never stop puking. Jesus wouldn't be allowed to preach or be welcomed into many churches. If Jesus were invited into churches, he would be violently confronted or only allowed to preach the less controversial of his teachings. The most likely people to crucify him again are the fundamentalists and the evangelicals. Today's Pharisees- people who Jesus condemned because of their literalism, their exclusion of many of God's children from the kingdom of God, their insistence on go across the world to seek converts, their claim to honor the prophets but they don't embody their wisdom, their holier than thou attitudes, and their obsession of law but neglecting justice. They would crucify Jesus for the same reason that Rome and the religious elites condemned him- for preaching God's extravagant grace and inclusive love, and for resisting the ways of Empire. If one is going to defend the powerless and the oppressed like Jesus did, you're gonna have to pay with the price of their own life.

 

[Beta]

Whose teaching should a Christian focus on? I think the answer is simple. The teachings of Christ. But why when I approach most Christians on this matter is there so much rebuttal?

There is 'simplicity in Christ' and for most that is too simple. HE had more impact on people when they were less educated and humble in their approach to God. What is missing today is 'respect' for God.
Also people - speaking here of 'Christians' are fulfilling scripture whether in truth or in falsehood.
Jesus Himself said there would come some preaching a 'false Christs' and obviously they would be calling him LORD LORD but NOT DO what HE says Luke 6v46.
Afraid that traditional Christians are mainly ' in name only ' (nominal) and not ' in Deed ' which is the fulfillment of a TRUE Christian Jas.1v22-25.:yes:

 

[Beta]

jesus is harder to follow and children and old people get lost quickly before a point can be made their minds are somewhere else.

I dont know they could be following the old KISS rule

I agree with you about Jesus being hard to follow - but I most certainly would not limit it to children and old people - they are not the ones calling the shots / ruling society.
When Rev.12v9 was written no one was excluded from deception so let us look at who is doing the teaching and preaching, certainly not the very old or very young.
Be that as it may - the reason Jesus is hard to follow is because He is not given the authority by man that God his Father obviously bestowed on him Mat.28v18-20. We talk much about God but not enough about Jesus who is actually our Redeemer and Saviour.HE is the one to lead us to God and deserves all our attention.HE is neglected by the churches as our example where it matters most - IN OBEDIENCE Heb.5v8.Why ?
Because we see from the 10 Commandments that Obedience Honour
and Respect to God take priority , being the first 4.Unless they are observed FIRST none of the others will work correctly in our lives not even love to neighbour. We should not put anything or anyone BEFORE God .Heb.5v8,9 says Jesus had to learn obedience and so must we if we are true followers of Him.

 

[Civil Shephard]

Preach it, brother! We as the body of Christ should be focusing on Christ's teachings rather than the doctrines made up about him by men of the church. The reason they don't embody the religion of Jesus is because Jesus demands that people give up their complacency, their preconceived notions of who or what God is, their pet doctrines, their lack of compassion and forgiveness. They would have to change not only the narrow theology and do away with the domesticated God they would also have to change the culture of the church itself. They would have to clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned, seek the release of God's oppressed children and to welcome those of God's children whom the mainstream church has traditionally excluded. They would have to recognize the light of God within each person and see the face of Christ on each person. I assure you that if God were to come to Earth along with Jesus and to see the injustices committed in God's and Jesus's names, they would never stop puking. Jesus wouldn't be allowed to preach or be welcomed into many churches. If Jesus were invited into churches, he would be violently confronted or only allowed to preach the less controversial of his teachings. The most likely people to crucify him again are the fundamentalists and the evangelicals. Today's Pharisees- people who Jesus condemned because of their literalism, their exclusion of many of God's children from the kingdom of God, their insistence on go across the world to seek converts, their claim to honor the prophets but they don't embody their wisdom, their holier than thou attitudes, and their obsession of law but neglecting justice. They would crucify Jesus for the same reason that Rome and the religious elites condemned him- for preaching God's extravagant grace and inclusive love, and for resisting the ways of Empire. If one is going to defend the powerless and the oppressed like Jesus did, you're gonna have to pay with the price of their own life.

Thank you_u sage!

It has indeed been my experience that brothers who've actually sat and read the words of Jesus with me out loud together tend to be those in a service position that doesn't lend itself exclusively to teaching and preaching. It's one of those things though... I mean to say that there is the me of motives that always gives me pause. I don't want to fall to the temptation of "being right" in what I say since as beta points out 'deeds' and not words. And that is what is lacking in my presentation of what is perhaps revelation for change in American US churches.

Beta

You should have never given up the colonies... perhaps religion would be more private and personal and we Americans wouldn't have debated and medicated ourselves into spiritual corners of those who work for their salvation and those who get it for free.

Anywho...

Outhouse,

I learned KISS as a kindergartner going to my first church (AA meetings) with my alcoholic mother. I loved meetings more that church because everybody got a chance to talk about God in an AA meeting but in church one guy did all the talking... yup, AA was definately more fun for a 5 to 9 year old than church. And they always had cookies... ok, rabbit trail...

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Whose teaching should a Christian focus on? I think the answer is simple. The teachings of Christ. But why when I approach most Christians on this matter is there so much rebuttal?

I would agree one hundred percent.

The focus of most churches is on that church it self.
with a major on fund raising.

Old testament Bible thumping, still Pack them in, and terror and guilt keeps them paying up.

Most Church goers find it difficult to talk about Jesus to others. Or encourage the things he taught about Love, helping others, charity and living a simple life.
Jesus teachings have been over taken by right wing politics, who see such teaching as "socialist" and un-American. or in the case of the UK un-British.

 

[james2ko]

Whose teaching should a Christian focus on? I think the answer is simple. The teachings of Christ. But why when I approach most Christians on this matter is there so much rebuttal?

If you don't mind me asking, what are some of the specific rebuttals?

 

[blackout]

Whose teaching should a Christian focus on?

In My Opinion,
the 'Red Letter' Teachings attributed to Yaushua
as interpreted within Your Own Self,
through the reflection of your own eyes and ears,
under the "authority and teaching" of NO other man,
should be enough/sufficient...Word ... for THAT individual.

This attempt to "mass market"
"inheritance" (what is inherent)
only serves the "assembly line".

Only YOU know the kingdom of gOd in Your Midst.
It is YOUR experience.
It comes without warning
and cannot be observed by anyone else.
No one else can see Life
through Your Own eyes.
(be they New, or Old)

 

[Civil Shephard]

If you don't mind me asking, what are some of the specific rebuttals?

Well... the one that I find somewhat passive and yet perhaps valid is that Christians should be reading the Gospel on their own. The whole personal relationship thing where to preach or teach from the Gospels is taking on too much responsiblity as a teacher. It's the ole' "Brother Son Sister Moon" scenario where the barefooted saint quotes the Sermon on the Mount before the bishops in Rome and gets his dirty feet kissed by the Pope routine.

The other one is "As the Lord leads... and the Lords not leading me to the Gospels right now in my ministry. I'm teaching Paul or Daniel or Leviticus for the next six months or so and I'll be sure to quote Jesus here and there."

Some Christian folks I've met just plain ole believe when they open up a bible and start talking that the Lords using them or they wouldn't be so blessed as to be giving a bible study in the first place as all authority is granted by god. For my part I think they missed the one where the blind lead the blind...

 

[angellous_evangellous]

There's simply more to Christian tradition than the Sermon on the Mount.

I'm partial to the Sermon, believe me, it contains what I consider to be the most authentic Jesus and his greatest accomplishment.

But the rest of the NT gives the Christian a rich assortment of teaching that calls us to meditate on the goodness of God and God's mission and method of redemption.

 

[blackout]

What IS there to even "teach" about the Sermon on the Mount?
really.

It's not exactly complicated reading.

If it resonates with you,
you will find it reflected in your Life.
(in one way, or another)

If not,
there are plenty of other things to read. and do...
and focus on.

 

[Civil Shephard]

Hey angellous_evangellous and Ultra Violet!

Thanks for bringing the counter-point. I suppose I'd have to go a bit deeper into the reason I feel as I do. Whats my motivation and all that...

You see... once I was at a mens retreat where I was called upon to do bible studies by a friend of mine who ran the joint. It was called a Christian Discipleship ranch and it was the kind of place where parole officers (including my old National Guard unit commander) would drop off parolees who agreed to go instead of immediately heading back to the streets and most likely back to jail.

So we had all these ministers who'd come in and they'd reference the Gospels while preaching from Moses and those references would fly right over the heads of 90% of the guys in the room. You know... the Gospel is preached best when it's read from to guys like this but I"ve also found that the Gospels when read out loud together fulfills something invaluable amoungst Christians. It's like sitting down to a good meal together and brings about a spiritual accountabilty of sorts amoungst friends in Christ. I highly recommend it... sit and read the Sermon on the Mount with a Christian friend you've had for years and something majical happens. I instituted a voluntary daily function at that ranch called Pray Read Pray and most of those who did them with me are the kind of friends who simply cannot hide in hypocracy as we so often do. It's like the loaves and fishes blessing where basketfuls are left over. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God and all that.

I think of it as the simplest of solution for bringing folks up from the other end of the bell shaped curve. However, for those amoungst the better more well read a communal sharing of Jesus words cannot be a bad thing. Back to basics I suppose. The last I checked with that ranch they now do something similar to the Pray Read Pray called an ABC where a chapter from the Gospels is read... but they've gotten away from the Gospels and again I find things get lost in translation without focusing on Christ words first especially for new believers. Afterall nothing turns the novice Christian away from self righteousness like the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[blackout]

Hey angellous_evangellous and Ultra Violet!

Thanks for bringing the counter-point. I suppose I'd have to go a bit deeper into the reason I feel as I do. Whats my motivation and all that...

You see... once I was at a mens retreat where I was called upon to do bible studies by a friend of mine who ran the joint. It was called a Christian Discipleship ranch and it was the kind of place where parole officers (including my old National Guard unit commander) would drop off parolees who agreed to go instead of immediately heading back to the streets and most likely back to jail.

So we had all these ministers who'd come in and they'd reference the Gospels while preaching from Moses and those references would fly right over the heads of 90% of the guys in the room. You know... the Gospel is preached best when it's read from to guys like this but I"ve also found that the Gospels when read out loud together fulfills something invaluable amoungst Christians. It's like sitting down to a good meal together and brings about a spiritual accountabilty of sorts amoungst friends in Christ. I highly recommend it... sit and read the Sermon on the Mount with a Christian friend you've had for years and something majical happens. I instituted a voluntary daily function at that ranch called Pray Read Pray and most of those who did them with me are the kind of friends who simply cannot hide in hypocracy as we so often do. It's like the loaves and fishes blessing where basketfuls are left over. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God and all that.

I think of it as the simplest of solution for bringing folks up from the other end of the bell shaped curve. However, for those amoungst the better more well read a communal sharing of Jesus words cannot be a bad thing. Back to basics I suppose. The last I checked with that ranch they now do something similar to the Pray Read Pray called an ABC where a chapter from the Gospels is read... but they've gotten away from the Gospels and again I find things get lost in translation without focusing on Christ words first especially for new believers. Afterall nothing turns the novice Christian away from self righteousness like the Sermon on the Mount.

So you don't really mean teaching...
you mean exposing. or introducing.

Also, and just to say,
People don't generally like 'preaching'.
Sharing, usually goes over better.

If 'it's' like a meal,
'it's' something you share (in equal company),
not something you preach.

(and just like a meal,
people have personal tastes for some things over others)

 

[Civil Shephard]

So you don't really mean teaching...
you mean exposing. or introducing.

Also, and just to say,
People don't generally like 'preaching'.
Sharing, usually goes over better.

If 'it's' like a meal,
'it's' something you share (in equal company),
not something you preach.

(and just like a meal,
people have personal tastes for some things over others)

I'm afraid I do mean teaching... it's just that I feel Jesus teaches us best when he gets to do most if not all of the talking.

In these Pray Read Pray groups I found that everyone seemed a little um...I can't describe it really but many would come up to me later and say what a great bible study I'd given when all we had done was prayed and read a significant portion of Jesus words and prayed out. Now I do remember giving summarized prayers after the reads and trying to pray over the highlights of what we had just read but that's about it.

Now for my part I feel there is ample precedent is NT scripture for this practice but to date I've only found one group online who actually does anything like it. This teaching is not my own... it comes from him who sent me... if any mans will is to do Gods will he will find out if I speak from myself or for God. OK ok I'm paraphrasing and applying what Jesus said about himself but I remember it did fit well for those who opposed what I was trying to accomplish at the time.

Some folks seem to think I'm trying to take over their god given authority as pastors and teachers and prophets. And I think this forum and forums like this illustrate that most folks think of themselves as teachers of some form or another.

And yeah... some folks don't want to read the Gospels...they want to read Psalms or Numbers or Galatians and they wonder why I'd take all that away from them for every bit of 15 minutes. But if we really want to talk about personal preference I have to ask why some folks who are Christian simply do not want to read Jesus Teachings out loud with other Christians.

Anywho... It just seems funny to me to that when I make this simple suggestion that I usually get a debate and usually someone quotes Paul 'all scripture' verse to me. I feel as though I'm secretly trying to rule the world with a public reading of the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[outhouse]

why focus only on a small portion of the whole picture just because it is your personal prefference

 

[Civil Shephard]

why focus only on a small portion of the whole picture just because it is your personal prefference

Again... let me state that was not my purpose at all... but it was the first thing I was accused of. Ask most Christians to whom belongs the Kingdom of Heaven and they would be suprised if you told them that it is the poor and spirit and those who are persecuted for righteousness sake. A disciple learns from the master... but of course the whole bible is there to be read and studied. My only point is that the most familiar territory... the lens through which a Christian should understand all other scripture is through the teachings and accounts of the master himself.

 

[Valjean]

Christians have always cherry-picked the Bible for passages supporting their society's values du jour.
Rarely have Christ's actual teachings taken centre stage, though. People love war, strife and money too much for any of that.

 

[Beta]

What strikes me most is that traditional Christianity has got away from the teachings of Jesus Himself which should be our focus.It seems to me they prefer the teachings of Paul even though Scripture says he is hard to understand and is indeed misunderstood - whereas there is simplicity in Christ.
So why do more choose to follow Paul instead of their one and only Saviour Jesus Christ who was moved to utter the words recorded in Lk.6v46 that have not yet reached the ears of his supposed followers. People tend to read over scripture they'd rather ignore because it is challenging to their accepted comfort and long-standing beliefs.
Yet scripture says ' we are to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Saviour Jesus Christ '. HE is our teacher come from God ! :yes:

 

[Ben Masada]

Preach it, brother! We as the body of Christ should be focusing on Christ's teachings rather than the doctrines made up about him by men of the church. The reason they don't embody the religion of Jesus is because Jesus demands that people give up their complacency, their preconceived notions of who or what God is, their pet doctrines, their lack of compassion and forgiveness. They would have to change not only the narrow theology and do away with the domesticated God they would also have to change the culture of the church itself. They would have to clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned, seek the release of God's oppressed children and to welcome those of God's children whom the mainstream church has traditionally excluded. They would have to recognize the light of God within each person and see the face of Christ on each person. I assure you that if God were to come to Earth along with Jesus and to see the injustices committed in God's and Jesus's names, they would never stop puking. Jesus wouldn't be allowed to preach or be welcomed into many churches. If Jesus were invited into churches, he would be violently confronted or only allowed to preach the less controversial of his teachings. The most likely people to crucify him again are the fundamentalists and the evangelicals. Today's Pharisees- people who Jesus condemned because of their literalism, their exclusion of many of God's children from the kingdom of God, their insistence on go across the world to seek converts, their claim to honor the prophets but they don't embody their wisdom, their holier than thou attitudes, and their obsession of law but neglecting justice. They would crucify Jesus for the same reason that Rome and the religious elites condemned him- for preaching God's extravagant grace and inclusive love, and for resisting the ways of Empire. If one is going to defend the powerless and the oppressed like Jesus did, you're gonna have to pay with the price of their own life.

I think Christians should learn from Isaiah 2:2,3 and listen to the Jewish People. That's what Isaiah means when he said that if the nations want intructions in the Word of God, they should address Zion, which is a synonym for the Jesus People.