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Who's teaching should a Christian focus on?

Civil Shephard

Active Member
Ben Masada, thank you! I love Isaiahs words
Isaiah 2

2 In the last days
the mountain of the LORD’s temple will be established
as the highest of the mountains;
it will be exalted above the hills,
and all nations will stream to it.
3 Many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.”
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

I referenced that scripture in one of my recent posts and was thinking I should find it and read around it again. Isaiah is the OT prophet who inspired most of my early young faith in our Creator. The passage seems to speak of the 1000 year reign but I'm not sure.

What do you mean when you say
Zion, which is a synonym for the Jesus People
?
 

BigRed

Member
For the last few years I've been to many a church service and found that the teaching of Jesus take a back burner to all other portions of scripture. I've found this trend to be annoying frankly. It seems to me that folks are chasing after the latest pet doctine. So I find myself getting thoroughly judgemental during many services and late for the door at times.

But getting past the feeling of "who am I to think this way" I wish to pose a question of the presentation of Christ in most media and most churches. Studies show that "our most segregated hour" is still that way in most American churches. When I leave most congregations I feel as if the focus and presentation of the Gospel leaves the hungry and thirsty, hungry and thirsty. Where are Christians teaching the words of Christ?

When I've asked this of some of the places I've been very few have listened. I have proposed that a simple reading of the Sermon on the Mount would be superior to most of what is being said and preached in most Christian churches. And... well, who am I to be saying this to someone with a church who has a congregation of tithers?

Whose teaching should a Christian focus on? I think the answer is simple. The teachings of Christ. But why when I approach most Christians on this matter is there so much rebuttal?

IMO and from my experience, Christians follow Paul rather than following Jesus.
As you read the gospels you see that Jesus endorses "The Law". But Paul is anti-Law. Christians don't want to be burdened with the Law so they teach Paul.
Just my opinion.
BigRed
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Christians should focus much more on the teachings of the only Scriptures that Jesus considered the Word of God and leave the NT alone.
 
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Civil Shephard

Active Member
Christians should focus much more on the teachings of the only Scriptures that Jesus considered the Word of God and leave the NT alone.

Well... Jesus says his own words are spirit and life and will set men free from sin if they continue as disciples of and in his words. He says that the Queen of Sheba and the people of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Solomon and Jonah and yet one greater than them is preaching and folks in certain cities still would not repent. The NT and the OT both deserve to be studied and addressed without making bold generalizations that mislead folks into thinking they are singular entities that can be dismissed out of hand. Both books are collections of copies of the copies of the copies and contain the views and perspectives of many men and women who lived centuries apart. And yet one theme is without question the most important and that is that God created us in his image that we might find fellowship with him.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
The title of this thread is too puzzling. "Who's teaching should a Christian focus on," gives off a much different meaning from "Whose teaching should a Christian focus on." What is the intent of the author here, to call our attention to who is teaching what a Christian should focus on or whose teaching should a Christian focus on?
 
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Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Ben Masada, thank you! I love Isaiahs words


I referenced that scripture in one of my recent posts and was thinking I should find it and read around it again. Isaiah is the OT prophet who inspired most of my early young faith in our Creator. The passage seems to speak of the 1000 year reign but I'm not sure.

What do you mean when you say
?


So do I. Isaiah is my favorite of the Prophets. I don't think Isaiah is speaking of anything that pertains to the NT. And when I say, "Zion, which is a synonym for the Jewish People" that's exactly what I mean. A prophecy which would be fulfilled at the return of the Jewish People from exile in Babylon, when the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah in 31:31 would be established with the House of Israel and the House of Judah as one People, the Jewish People, whom the Gentiles would reach for by metaphorically grabbing at their garments and ask to join them for finally acknowledging that God is with us. (Zech. 8:23)
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Well... Jesus says his own words are spirit and life and will set men free from sin if they continue as disciples of and in his words. He says that the Queen of Sheba and the people of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Solomon and Jonah and yet one greater than them is preaching and folks in certain cities still would not repent. The NT and the OT both deserve to be studied and addressed without making bold generalizations that mislead folks into thinking they are singular entities that can be dismissed out of hand. Both books are collections of copies of the copies of the copies and contain the views and perspectives of many men and women who lived centuries apart. And yet one theme is without question the most important and that is that God created us in his image that we might find fellowship with him.


Two points here, I would like to bring to your attention: The first is that there is an enormous difference between the NT and the Tanakh. While this was written by Jews, which for us, it doesn't matter who, since they were from among the Jewish People, the NT was written by Hellenist Gentiles former disciples of Paul who had a mind only on promoting the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

The second point is that God did not create us in His image, because God is Incorporeal, and there is no image in incorporeality. (Deut. 4:15-18) Therefore, the passage of Genesis 1:26 must not be interpreted on a literal manner but metaphorically as follows:

Personification of Attributes - Genesis 1:26

"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over... the whole earth."

The above passage of Genesis has been for years the trump card in the hands of Trinitarians to drop at the right time in the assumed thought that it will guarantee them to clean up the table, so to speak. Well, let them think again, because I have news. It's no longer that easy.

Elohim is incorporeal, and incorporeality reflects no image. But then again, how to harmonize the use of the pronouns in the plural form? The attributes of God, which are part of His essence, were impersonately involved in the formation of man.

Bear in mind that only in the creation of man was the statement issued: To make man at God's image. Since God has no visible image, and man does, it's only obvious that man's image would be according to God's attributes. Therefore, His attributes in a relative portion, were the active agent in the formation of man.

Now, it's imperative to focus on the pronouns used by the sacred writer, since the pronouns are anyways what Trinitarians use to think they have made their day. "Let US make MAN in OUR image and likeness. And let THEM have dominion over everything on earth."

Now, focus on the word MAN. It is in the singular form. Nevertheless, the purpose is for THEM to dominate the earth. If THEM were a reference to man, a clarification would be in order to explain the discrepancy in the Grammar. I mean, that it would be a reference to all men. This lack of clarification was not a lapse of the author, but intentional will to direct our minds to the attributes of God, which took part in the formation of man.

It's interesting and just convenient for Trinitarians to rapidly refer "us" and "our" to God Himself and hide any word of explanation on the plural pronoun "them," which could not be a reference to man. I hope they do not do this on purpose because it would be spiritual cruelty to hide the truth.

I hope we have settled this issue. Since "them" is not a reference to man but to the attributes of God, it's only obvious that "us" and "our" are not references to God Himself but to His attributes. Therefore, the Creator of the Universe is He Who has dominion over the whole of the Universe through man by way of His attributes.

Conclusion:

It's more than obvious that Israel could not uphold the banner of absolute Monotheism in God, and start the Scriptures with statements of plurality in God. The whole issue therefore, was personification of attributes.

Ben
 
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Civil Shephard

Active Member
Ben Masada

Well I'm sorry you feel like we stole your God from you... least we didn't join up with the Nazi's and get all stupid like we did with the middle crossing and all that cotton. I'm part white so sometimes I have to apologize to myself for all that cotton.

It's all too picky for me... yeah I've read and talked about this verse and that verse and interpretation till I was blue in the face and the only thing that come of it is another church split and the invention of viagra. But thank God for Bob Dole cause I thought I was the only one...

Anywho... you're gonna have to tone it down cause I've only got a 6th grade education. Who says when God said 'we' he wasn't talking like human royalty do in them movies and such?

Anywho #2... I think the image is I AM... or the awareness of being plain and simple. And I'm glad YOU ARE Ben. I AM and YOU ARE. Now please pass the friend chicken.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Ben Masada

Well I'm sorry you feel like we stole your God from you... least we didn't join up with the Nazi's and get all stupid like we did with the middle crossing and all that cotton. I'm part white so sometimes I have to apologize to myself for all that cotton.

It's all too picky for me... yeah I've read and talked about this verse and that verse and interpretation till I was blue in the face and the only thing that come of it is another church split and the invention of viagra. But thank God for Bob Dole cause I thought I was the only one...

Anywho... you're gonna have to tone it down cause I've only got a 6th grade education. Who says when God said 'we' he wasn't talking like human royalty do in them movies and such?

Anywho #2... I think the image is I AM... or the awareness of being plain and simple. And I'm glad YOU ARE Ben. I AM and YOU ARE. Now please pass the friend chicken.


No, CS, when God said "we" He did not mean in terms of plurality of royalty. It would still be a literal interpretation. Metaphorically, "we" where it concerns God, is a reference to His attributes which in God are part of His essence. That which He is. Eternal as Gos is, while in man, the Divine attributes become accidents of matter and temporary as man is mortal.

The image is not I AM or YOU ARE. This is an identification that we have, which can be taken away, if not by anything else, by death. In God, He is what He is no matter what. According to Jesus himself, God is an Incorporeal Spirit; and the only way to relate to Him is spiritually. (John 4:24)
 

Civil Shephard

Active Member
Ben Masada

I started this thread and asked whose teaching a Christian should focus on. Now your first response was

I think Christians should learn from Isaiah 2:2,3 and listen to the Jewish People. That's what Isaiah means when he said that if the nations want intructions in the Word of God, they should address Zion, which is a synonym for the Jesus People.

Please note you said "Jesus People". Now at first I thought great! Here's a Messianic Jewish believer.

Well... I was wrong. I believe in the resurrection of the dead and in the eternal soul and spirit of each and every human being on the face of this earth or any other earth our common creator I AM may have created. I'm not about to become a Sadducee cause that would make me very prideful and Sad You See like the blindness you're preaching.

I started studying scripture in the bible to learn how to fight. I want truth and do not like error. But I believe many believe in error because it suits then better than truth... and the error I do live in isn't something I'm about to start preaching. By my words I will be justified and by my words I will be condemned and Jesus teachings are the only ones that set me free from sin when I chose willingly and gratefully to walk in them. Pride always blocks the loving Holy Spirit of our Creator and Savior I AM YESHUA. And I have enough pride to know that in my head there isn't room for anymore foolish notions about the nature of things to high for me to understand.

Now... would you like the soup or the fried chicken?
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
IMO and from my experience, Christians follow Paul rather than following Jesus.
As you read the gospels you see that Jesus endorses "The Law". But Paul is anti-Law. Christians don't want to be burdened with the Law so they teach Paul.
Just my opinion.
BigRed
You are absolutely right BR.
Trad.christianity has followed Paul - but in a misunderstood way. Scripture says he is difficult to understand because 'in truth' Paul is not 'anti-law' as people perceive him on surface. Paul's difficulties arise from not being clear on law. As we know Jesus fulfilled some laws through and by his death (ritual,sacrificial and works) which had been added to the spiritual Gal.3v19 .These were temporary laws until Christ only and these are the laws Paul's teaching was against but not the original spiritual law of the 10 Commandments which are holy and eternal Rom.7. (as Paul says himself).
In 1Cor.11v1 Paul says :' Be you followers of me even as I also follow Christ.' Paul never gave up the Commandments .
 
Ben Masada

I started this thread and asked whose teaching a Christian should focus on.

Now... would you like the soup or the fried chicken?


Who's teaching should a Christian be focused on. I think it depends on if the Christian sees the bible as the word of GOD or the words of Jesus. If the Christian sees Jesus as part of GOD, then it should be Jesus. (the soup)

If the Christian sees Jesus as the Messiah, then the bible is all equally the same and all of GODs Word is equal and it does not matter. (the fried chicken)

...and that would be fried chicken for me.
 

Civil Shephard

Active Member
Who's teaching should a Christian be focused on. I think it depends on if the Christian sees the bible as the word of GOD or the words of Jesus. If the Christian sees Jesus as part of GOD, then it should be Jesus. (the soup)

If the Christian sees Jesus as the Messiah, then the bible is all equally the same and all of GODs Word is equal and it does not matter. (the fried chicken)

...and that would be fried chicken for me.

It's a matter of focus.

But when Jesus said that one greater than Solomon and Jonah was here what did he mean? When Jesus said his teachings are the truth that set his disciples free from sin do you think he wanted his disciples to focus on Isaiahs words. If Solomon were writing on this thread would he say that we should read his father Davids Psalms more than we read the words of Jesus? Would Moses tell you to study the law and not spend so much time on the Gospel of John?

No... when Paul wrote all scripture was useful he was speaking to Timothy who had been raised in the Holy Scripture. I'm sure even Paul would rather a disciple focus on Jesus teaching first than have them go through in depth training in the psalms or the prophets or the law.

So once again... All I'm saying is that Christ teachings should be the focus and I have a very hard time believing that Paul, Moses, Elijah and Peter would disaggree with me.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
But but Civil, they can't do that, Jesus' teachings are too hard. Don't tell them they have to love those gays and Atheists and stuff. They can't do that. They gotta get out the evangelical message. God is going to destroy America because of the gays and peace loving Pagans.

They can't follow Jesus, it's just too hard :sad4:
 

Civil Shephard

Active Member
I would say Interpret Christ the way Origin did. He was the smartest of all the Church Fathers and Neoplatonism rocks.


Thanks... Origen makes for interesting reading. But I must say that I try not to interpret Christ teachings but to apply them and try understand how he said what he said not just what he said. "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me... for I am meek and lowly in heart" seems to me a sign that he presented himself in a way that was always gentle and kind even in rebuke.

Seems to me the beatitudes are being severely neglected.

Thank you for your post.
 

Civil Shephard

Active Member
But but Civil, they can't do that, Jesus' teachings are too hard. Don't tell them they have to love those gays and Atheists and stuff. They can't do that. They gotta get out the evangelical message. God is going to destroy America because of the gays and peace loving Pagans.

They can't follow Jesus, it's just too hard :sad4:

You know... I've writen some about the issue of homosexuality online and really didn't want to but at the time felt I must.

MyFoxChattanooga

Off topic to be sure but not for my aim in life.

I want to present Christ in the light of his mercy and not the prelude to his judgement. After all... I haven't walked on water lately...

To me... focusing on Christ teaching means applying what Christ said to understand what Paul meant... what Moses meant... what Elijah meant and what it means to love from a pure heart.
 
It's a matter of focus.

So once again... All I'm saying is that Christ teachings should be the focus and I have a very hard time believing that Paul, Moses, Elijah and Peter would disaggree with me.


IMO the Prophets and the Messiah would all say they are GODs teachings. So it is truly a matter of focus.
 

smokydot

Well-Known Member
For the last few years I've been to many a church service and found that the teaching of Jesus take a back burner to all other portions of scripture. I've found this trend to be annoying frankly. It seems to me that folks are chasing after the latest pet doctine. So I find myself getting thoroughly judgemental during many services and late for the door at times.
But getting past the feeling of "who am I to think this way" I wish to pose a question of the presentation of Christ in most media and most churches. Studies show that "our most segregated hour" is still that way in most American churches. When I leave most congregations I feel as if the focus and presentation of the Gospel leaves the hungry and thirsty, hungry and thirsty. Where are Christians teaching the words of Christ?
When I've asked this of some of the places I've been very few have listened. I have proposed that a simple reading of the Sermon on the Mount would be superior to most of what is being said and preached in most Christian churches. And... well, who am I to be saying this to someone with a church who has a congregation of tithers?
Whose teaching should a Christian focus on? I think the answer is simple. The teachings of Christ. But why when I approach most Christians on this matter is there so much rebuttal?
The whole NT is God-breathed revelation (2 Tim 3:16). . .it is one whole revelation, and all of it is to be preached, understood and obeyed.

Your question presents a false dichotomy. . .which has the possiblity of developing into a heresy.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
The whole NT is God-breathed revelation (2 Tim 3:16). . .it is one whole revelation, and all of it is to be preached, understood and obeyed.

Your question presents a false dichotomy. . .which has the possiblity of developing into a heresy.

(he was talking about the Old Testament)
 
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