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Who's to blame for possible bad outcomes, the religion/ideology/belief system/etc. or people?
- Thread starter Smart_Guy
- Start date
This guy came up with 195 million in the last 1000 years, and I think he's being conservative. For example, the article says 20 million native americans, but I've heard figures as high as 100 million.
And of course one can make good arguments that a certain conflict wasn't "really" in the name of religion. Remember I said in my post I was going to generalize.
But - for the sake of argument - let's say it's more like 400 million not one billion. Does that really make religious violence acceptable?
Don't under play the fact that the option 'both' is leading .
I finally learned that.
It helped to get hard and callous.
Survival mechanism ya know.
Religion and both are not the same vote. End of Story.
I voted people because people invented religion.
One of the worst aspects of religion is teaching people to blindly obey human authority, even when it's obviously wrong. Whether it's an ancient prophet or a more contemporary human "interpreting" a prophet or Scripture or something, teaching people to obey humans claiming to speak for a "higher power" causes huge amounts of damage to the human situation.
Tom
One of the worst aspects of religion is teaching people to blindly obey human authority, even when it's obviously wrong. Whether it's an ancient prophet or a more contemporary human "interpreting" a prophet or Scripture or something, teaching people to obey humans claiming to speak for a "higher power" causes huge amounts of damage to the human situation.
Tom
If I were a Native American I'd be pissed at the way my ancestors
were treated by white eyes.
Oh, I AM part native American.
I hate you white people. You speak with forked tongue.
Now gimme money, food stamps, a free car, and NO taxes!
Hunting season and bag limits no longer apply to me.
I'ts MY land and MY game!
And YOU can pay me rent for where you live and work!
Build me a casino while you're at it so I can rip off you white
people big time all tax free!
were treated by white eyes.
Oh, I AM part native American.
I hate you white people. You speak with forked tongue.
Now gimme money, food stamps, a free car, and NO taxes!
Hunting season and bag limits no longer apply to me.
I'ts MY land and MY game!
And YOU can pay me rent for where you live and work!
Build me a casino while you're at it so I can rip off you white
people big time all tax free!
Did we invent religion or did religion invent us?
Probably we invented religion the priests learned quickly how easy
it was to get rich and get sex all for free.
For a loooooong time in Europe only a few could read.
Mostly priests so they could tell the peons anything.
The "Church" misled the masses for centuries.
Still doing it.
Probably we invented religion the priests learned quickly how easy
it was to get rich and get sex all for free.
For a loooooong time in Europe only a few could read.
Mostly priests so they could tell the peons anything.
The "Church" misled the masses for centuries.
Still doing it.
Do you have any idea how much of the continental USA would become Native territory if the government honored all the agreements we made with the First Nations? And compensated them for damages done after it was stolen, like mining and logging?
Tom
No I have no idea but I'd bet it's enough to break the bank.
I orta have a genetic test done to see how much Blackfoot
I have me.
Maybe I can get some taxpayer money?
I doubt it.
According to family rumor a great grandmother was full blood
Blackfoot.
There are likely a lot of American whites with Native American
genes some where along the line.
I orta have a genetic test done to see how much Blackfoot
I have me.
Maybe I can get some taxpayer money?
I doubt it.
According to family rumor a great grandmother was full blood
Blackfoot.
There are likely a lot of American whites with Native American
genes some where along the line.
Augustus
…
That list is comically bad. 1. Most of those cannot really be considered religious (even if we are generalising and being super-ultra-mega liberal with our categorisations) 2. Many of the numbers are vastly overstated
He's not being conservative, he is being irrationally exuberant.
Axelrod & Phillips' Encyclopedia of Wars estimates that 93% of wars and 98% of deaths have been non-religious in nature. Given that religion must have prevented some conflicts due to shared values, and the ideologies that would have replaced religion had it not existed would have caused some wars, religion seems to have a negligible effect on violence.
Of course there is some religious violence, but we are a violent species and like killing and warfare. It is at least plausible, although highly speculative and unprovable, that religion has had a net positive across history given the track record of the ideologies that replaced traditional religions. Regardless of this speculation, nationalism, resources and politics have caused far more wars and multiple times more deaths.
Although many people take it for granted, I'm not sure there is any rational reason to believe that religions have made us significantly more violent than we would otherwise have been. Violence is simply part of our nature and we easily find ways to justify violence against the other.
I think it does, overall. Because it commonly teaches people to put Faith in human authority. Once they have learned to let someone else do their thinking for them, it's easy to get them to go to war or oppress people or any of the many horrible things people do to each other.
Paraphrasing, "Good people do good things, bad people do bad things. But to get good people to do bad things takes Religion. "
Tom
I would love to know of societies in which children were not brought up indoctrinated in religion. Most religion is very tribal, very "us vs. them". So I don't really think we know to what degree "violence is a part of our nature". maybe, maybe not.
I'm going to complain about the question in the greatest tradition of the internet. "religion" is a very complex word. For example per wikipedia Religion is a cultural system of behaviors and practices, world views, sacred texts, holy places, ethics, and societal organisation that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has called "an order of existence"
Even the question of what is in the sacred texts is a complex question let alone how human beings are going to interpret them.
But what you're really asking is how we feel about Islam using a general question as the means. (How's that for assuming motive?)
But to keep my answer on topic with the OP, religion is like fire, all religions are like fire. They can cook food or burn the house down to use that analogy. And given the internet contradictions and paradoxes in religion, people can interpret them in any way they want. So my answer is that people are the problem.
Even the question of what is in the sacred texts is a complex question let alone how human beings are going to interpret them.
But what you're really asking is how we feel about Islam using a general question as the means. (How's that for assuming motive?)
But to keep my answer on topic with the OP, religion is like fire, all religions are like fire. They can cook food or burn the house down to use that analogy. And given the internet contradictions and paradoxes in religion, people can interpret them in any way they want. So my answer is that people are the problem.
Augustus
…
Or ideology, or politics or money or family or love or power or threat or pride or fear or...
Human society is very tribal and us v them, identity is a central component of existence and identity creates an us and a them. We evolved to be this way (as did the other animals we most closely resemble).
As to whether violence is part of out nature, there are few things in this world that are better supported by evidence.
Can I just say that your current tag line: "sunrise123 We are living in the end times.", doesn't encourage me to pay much attention to you.
BTW, there are a LOT of Christians in the U.S. who feel the same way as you apparently do. I choose to hold the idea that we should leave our planet a decent place for our children and grandchildren and so on. This religious fatalism seems like a huge problem to me, no?
Come on man, history is often a poor predictor. We did NOT evolve to live with nuclear power and electricity. We have to learn how to move past the savanna that we evolved to live on. We have to leave tribalism behind. It served us well 200,000 years ago. It no longer serves us well.
I blame people for their own actions.
I blame religions and other groups when they promote bad actions, as they are inciting others to make problems that wouldn't exist without the propaganda or constant encouragement.
Most organized religions have problems and some religions aren't so much a religion, but a culture. (Islam) I blame whoever deserves the blame...