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Why anti-theism is a joke.

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I remember a time when I learned a great deal about many religions from this site. Some religions I liked less the more I learned about them, and some I thought were fascinating.
But it seems as if for now a new crowd has the spotlight now, and this crowd seems to eager to criticize religion as a whole.
I've noticed many hear love to question religion and criticize it. And I will say some beliefs need questioned and criticized. One that sticks out like a sore thumb is a global flood. There simply is no evidence to suggest such a thing. Or the earth being six to ten thousand years old. It just is not so.
But what it wear that a God created the universe, and decided to leave it at that and see what happens? Or perhaps as Family Guy suggested (or joked rather) than God light a fart on fire to cause the big bang? How do we even really know the big bang happened?
You may say there is a such thing as peer review, but look at the horrors that has produced. Hitler had many who approved of his tactics. Da Vinci had very little support (from the scientific community) during his day. A small group of scientist who agreed produced the atomic bomb, while global climate scientist have been struggling for decades for people to see the urgency of their cries.
Sure religion has produced a few ******** who believe they are better than everyone else, but my next door neighbor believes he is better because he has a penis dangling between his legs. But at the same time some people pray to god and find in this mystical force to strength to achieve sobriety. One religion says man shall not wear that which pertains unto a woman, but yet another religion holds a very special place for transsexuals. One religion sacrificed people to appease gods that are more blood-thirsty than vampires, while another simply teaches that marijuana is a gift from god. And then the most active of the American Founding Fathers believed that God did not play an active role in the events of the universe.
So I ask, given that there are some religious views that are very ignorant of what we know (or at least think) to be true, and while some simply cannot be disproven, why attack religion as a whole? It really can't be proven a Deist who believes God does not play an active role is wrong, or an Agnostic who claims we simply cannot know is wrong, and when Stephen Hawking says science does not prove or disprove God, why the need to attack religion at all? Some people are vile people. They don't need religion. They have used race, money, nationality, blonde hair and blue eyes, or really any excuse they can find. And some will be good in the name of religion. Mother Teresa doubted, but would we know of of her many good deeds had it not been for religion? For some people their God, even if imaginary, is the only source of comfort they have at the end of the day.
As a person, I say religion may do some harm. But in all reality what is 100% free from this? Even marijuana, which many embrace as a harmless drug, is ultimately responsible for various things from nasty allergic reactions to death over drug deals gone wrong.
As an observer I see that religion has done some wrongs, it has done some goods, but today most people just claim (here in America at least) to be Christian and it seems to have a very minimal impact (unless you're looking at Texas.)
As a psychology student I say yes there is some harm. But rather than religion as a whole specifics must be mentioned first, as I know a Priest that simply would not condemn a single soul to Hell (he openly welcomes gays to his church, and he even invited me, as Luciferian and transsexual to diner with his family and made no mentions of God or Salvation), and I know some who condemn anyone who looks at them wrong. There are examples of pastors who believe America is God's country and English is his chosen language, and those who believe we all children of God and in Heaven we will all just simply know what each other is saying.
So instead of criticizing religion, which is a very broad term and no mater how much you wish it could cannot be disproven entirely, why not focus on the real problem which is people? People can be mean, vile, hateful, and vengeful. And people will use anything they can to justify their negativity. It can be religion, or it can be race, wealth, resources, power, nationality, religion, or something very trivial like music or video game preference.
People can be good, people can be bad. We don't have to search long or hard to find instances in which drugs, race, sexual orientation, gender identity, wealth, nationality, or any "insert reason here" is used to justify bigotry, hate, intolerance, or at the same time love, compassion, and unity.
So instead of looking at only a very small sample under the microscope, why not broaden your horizens and look at everything us humans have to offer? I promise you will find different reasons, but similar ends for any cause you look for.

 

Chisti

Active Member

So instead of criticizing religion, which is a very broad term and no mater how much you wish it could cannot be disproven entirely, why not focus on the real problem which is people?

True, but people are conditioned by various factors, especially religion. So looking at people would necessarily mean looking at the religion which conditioned them - and shaped their behavior, ideas, and choices.
 

lunakilo

Well-Known Member
Since this is a religious forum I think it is only natural for people to come here to talk about religion, it would be strange for people to come here to talk about people.

And I don't think that people attack religion in general. Many people here question or challenge religion, but that is a very different thing to an attack.

If you come here with no religion in your luggage then your first question is naturally about religion in general. You could have questions like: Why are people religious at all?. Does the concept of God make sence at all?
You are not very likely to have questions about particular religions.

And if you post a reply to a thread, you reply to it from your non-religious point of view.
Maybe that comes across as an attack, but it is (in genereal) not.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
why attack religion as a whole?

none of the educated attack religion as a whole here from what I see, those that even bash to hard are run out or put in the corner. educated or not.

Im probably the worse and with that said I direct my fight to and for the education of humanity.

I go after religion where religion crosses the line of reality in the name of faith against evidence.



there are positive aspects of religion, i dont fight that part at all. Would love everyone to keep there faith.

BUT you cannot state there are no negitive aspects of religions and that needs to be handled because its primitive thinking. as a whole humanity is moving forward, it doesnt need anything holding it back.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
I'm not anti-religion. If anything, I'm anti the type of mindset which elevates faith over reason - but, then again, I'm not really anti that either, as it's like being anti gravity or math. It's pointless to be anti something which simply is.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Anti-theism seems to be the new orthodoxy.

It isn't any more tolerant or any less dogmatic or self-righteous than any of it's predecessors.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
why not focus on the real problem which is people?

well thats what we are doing, you are stereotypically grouping us as the new crowd, not the other way around .

your real problem is hate not religion. You think we blindly hate the religious and its not so.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Also, most of the anti-religious people I've encountered tend to be people simply transitioning from religious to non-religious. It seems to be an emotional reaction against their previous situation. It seems a reasonable stage as far as human behavior goes, and most outgrow it after a time.
 

TheMainMan

New Member
I am not anti-religious in the way I think you mean, but I agree with the first thing Kilgore Trout said.
I have no issue whatever with people believing in God (or anything for that matter), I take issue when that belief starts to interfere with rational thought.

I have a very religious friend whom I get along fine with until religion or politics pop up. I have no issue when he says something along the lines of believing in god, however when his faith in the bible leads him to believe that Man fought the dinosaurs 6000 years ago (as his faith does), I start to get annoyed.

In response to the original topic, I am anti-religion only because one of the deepest feelings I have is that a 'cult' (for lack of a better word, I mean no insult) like a religion or even something else that stresses belief in something unprovable above all else is not healthy for the human psyche.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
In response to the original topic, I am anti-religion only because one of the deepest feelings I have is that a 'cult' (for lack of a better word, I mean no insult) like a religion or even something else that stresses belief in something unprovable above all else is not healthy for the human psyche.
That's not religion, it's a stereotype of religion. Which is the problem the OP complained of.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Anti-theism seems to be the new orthodoxy.

It isn't any more tolerant or any less dogmatic or self-righteous than any of it's predecessors.

I wanted to frubal your post but had to spread some around first, so i'm just posting to say i completely agree.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
Anti-theism seems to be the new orthodoxy.

It isn't any more tolerant or any less dogmatic or self-righteous than any of it's predecessors.
Aw, calm yerself.

A few indignant atheists with a grudge doesn't make a new orthodoxy. Like myself, the general feeling amongst the atheists I meet (online or not) is that religion is a personal matter.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Aw, calm yerself.

I'm calm. The worst I ever get over this is disgusted.

I'm especially disgusted by the blanket denial about all this I see among the people I'm talking about, but then again, that's typical orthodox thinking too. :rolleyes:

A few indignant atheists with a grudge doesn't make a new orthodoxy. Like myself, the general feeling amongst the atheists I meet (online or not) is that religion is a personal matter.

Who said anything about atheists? I said anti-theist. Strike an unacknowledged nerve did I?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
I "think"

a little anti-theism is normal and healthy, keeps religion from being stagnent.

maybe this new movement you notice is a natural reaction when a higher level of education meets religion.

your surely cannot deny there are negitive aspects of religion that have caused to many deaths, even in modern times no matter how indirectly religion could be attributed to.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
I "think"

a little anti-theism is normal and healthy, keeps religion from being stagnent.

maybe this new movement you notice is a natural reaction when a higher level of education meets religion.

your surely cannot deny there are negitive aspects of religion that have caused to many deaths, even in modern times no matter how indirectly religion could be attributed to.

What's caused almost all these problems is/was a group of people looking for some excuse to elevate themselves above everyone else, even to the point of elevating their own wants, desires, and preferences above other people's rights . Religion has always been a way for self-serving people to slap a socially sanctioned emblem on their own narcissism.

What I'm saying is that now there's a new anti-religious orthodoxy emerging with the same mind-set:

Self-righteousness
Closed mindedness
Elective perception
A tendency towards mindlessly generalizing
A tendency to dictate what other people should believe
A tendency to alternately reject or accept ideas that they don't understand without question based almost completely on convenience
Contempt and hostility towards anyone who doesn't think the way they do
Complete disregard for the rights or feelings of any innocent bystanders based on an unexamined "if you aren't with us you're against us" attitude.

Seriously: there's no doubt in my mind that if some of the neuvo, anti-theist orthodoxy had been born in the Middle Ages they would have been wearing robes and hunting heretics.

It's the same game with a different set of slogans.

When it comes to the kind of people I'm talking about religion/anti-religion is just a cover for a lot of other, unacknowledged issues, most of which are grounded in personal insecurity. The slogans are more a matter of local fashion than personal conviction.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Were it not for religion, actually certain religious people, pushing their religious beliefs into secular matters I don't think any atheist or any other non-religious person would give a hoot about religion or those who profess one. Keep it to yourselves and I honestly doubt you'd hear an uninvited comment on your beliefs or what you do.

The upshot of which is, if some people are truly anti-religion then the religious only have themselves to blame. Keep your people under control and all will be fine.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Were it not for religion, actually certain religious people, pushing their religious beliefs into secular matters I don't think any atheist or any other non-religious person would give a hoot about religion or those who profess one. Keep it to yourselves and I honestly doubt you'd hear an uninvited comment on your beliefs or what you do.

The upshot of which is, if some people are truly anti-religion then the religious only have themselves to blame. Keep your people under control and all will be fine.

This is what I mean: you say "the religious" and "your people", as if they're all part of the same unified group, practicing the all same things in the same ways, and responsible for what every other person in this imaginary coalition does.

Like I said:

Elective perception
A tendency towards mindlessly generalizing
Contempt and hostility towards anyone who doesn't think the way they do
Complete disregard for the rights or feelings of any innocent bystanders based on an unexamined "if you aren't with us you're against us" attitude.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Yeah, don't really see it. A few non-religious people venting on the internet in response to living in a religion-oriented culture is hardly equivalent to hunting heretics in robes. However, I suppose nearly everybody has a tendency to overreact in regards to those who hold differing viewpoints from them. Another perfectly human response.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Yeah, don't really see it. A few non-religious people venting on the internet in response to living in a religion-oriented culture is hardly equivalent to hunting heretics in robes. However, I suppose nearly everybody has a tendency to overreact in regards to those who hold differing viewpoints from them. Another perfectly human response.

Didn't say it was equivalent, said the attitude was the same.

What was I saying about Elective perception?

Nice robe btw. :D
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
This is what I mean: you say "the religious" and "your people", as if they're all part of the same unified group, practicing the all same things in the same ways, and responsible for what every other person in this imaginary coalition does.
Sorry it came across that way. I assumed it would be quite apparent that if the shoe doesn't fit it can be safely disregarded. :shrug: And considering that in my opening remark I was careful to qualify the culprits by identifying them as "actually certain religious people" I didn't expect anyone here to have forgotten this point in just two sentences. My mistake in overestimating your reading comprehension. :sorry1: I'll recalibrate my Expectation scale for you.

Like I said:

Elective perception
A tendency towards mindlessly generalizing
Contempt and hostility towards anyone who doesn't think the way they do
Complete disregard for the rights or feelings of any innocent bystanders based on an unexamined "if you aren't with us you're against us" attitude.
And like I said:

Your prejudice is like the blazing sun, it blinds you to any other possibility. And, of course, your hyperbole here is noted and appended to my E-scale. That said, I think were good here.
icon14.gif
At least I am until you throw a toaster oven or whatever at me. :D

Take care.
 
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