Why are “some atheists” so intolerant of religious believers?

[syo]

I don't see how that is possible since they have no God(gods) belief.

They want other people not to have belief in God too.

 

[Jedster]

They want other people not to have belief in God too.

So you mean that some atheists want theists not to believe.
Isn't that just like some theists want atheists to believe?

I see no problem there.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

That is sad because everyone has doubts or questions. I have seen that kind of attitude myself over the years. At first, it used to take me aback that "Christians" would act that way. Then I began to realize not all who profess to be believers really submitted their thoughts and actions to Christ and also that I had to stop looking at people to display perfect Christ-likeness and keep my focus on instead on Jesus alone . And to honest, though, I've not usually felt or expressed hate toward anyone, I have had to repent from my own self-centered attitudes.

I think a lot of it has to do with a lack of exposure to other perspectives. In my experience, exclusively Christian groups are extremely intolerant of people who don't share their view of life. I grew up in a very hardcore evangelical environment, and the mentality of the Christians was always an "us vs. them" mentality i.e. the holy believers vs. "the world." They associate with non-believers, but there is always an air of condescension toward them as if they cannot be part of the group.

The same phenomenon can occur (although in my experience to a lesser extent) with some secular groups, who look down their noses at religious folks.

 

[stvdv]

I did not do anything to them except try to be their friend

I just got a youtube today ... this clearly gives the answer to your OP

 

[David T]

In December 2017, I left a forum I had been posting on for about four years to come here because of a falling out with the atheist forum owner. I was here for about a year and then that atheist forum owner saw me posting on another forum in that forum group and invited me back to his forum. I went back in December 2018, reticently, and since then I have only been posting here on RF on a limited basis, because I do not have time for both forums. I am now very sorry I ever went back there and I hope I never make the same mistake again.

That forum pretends to be a forum for believers, ex-believers and nonbelievers but it is inhospitable for believers of any kind, particularly for believers of the Baha’i Faith. That is putting it mildly. We are discriminated against because the forum owner has a vendetta against my religion. Christians and Jews are tolerated as long as they do not talk too much about God or their religious beliefs. Mostly what they talk about on that forum are politics and social issues. So they really should not call themselves a “religious forum.”

My most recent academic background is in psychology, so I wonder why people think and do what they think and do. It seems rather obvious to me that if the atheists on that forum are hostile towards me it is because they are threatened in some way. Of course, they would never admit that. It is not as if I am a bit pushy about what I believe, and in fact I only discussed my beliefs if someone else posted to me about my beliefs. Then I responded and I got blamed for proselytizing. This is wholly unjust.

This last falling out was precipitated by the forum owner having a hissy fit for what he considered me mentioning my religion too much and then he put me on moderation. I sent him a private message that I will not post on his forum while on moderation because that is unjust, since I broke no forum rules, and I told him I was leaving his forum. Of course most of the atheists are glad I am gone. I am also glad I am gone because now I am back here and the atheists on this forum have been so different. They are mature adults, not little children acting out.

There is no reason why those atheists would act out that way unless they were afraid of what I have to say. They do not react to the other believers on that forum that way because they do not dare talk much about God or their religion, because they are too afraid of being insulted. But I never cared about being insulted; I stood right up to them, but I was always polite. And I never told them that they should believe in God, as I am very well aware of the reasons atheists do not believe in God and I respect those reasons. Why can’t we all just get along? Is that too much to ask?

Imagine that! I dare to talk about God and my religion on a “religious forum.”

The forum owner just wants to control everything I post, it is so obvious. Why can’t other people see this? It is psych 101 stuff. I know atheists are intelligent, but the atheists on that forum seem to wear blinders regarding the reasons for their fearless leader’s behaviors.

Finally, they call that forum a “free thinkers” forum and I find the very ironic, because nobody has changed the way they think since I went there five years ago. They are not free to think anything that contradicts their atheism and they don’t want to hear about it. Then they rank on believers and say we are not free to think because we have a religion. They say we are just “brainwashed believers.” It is comical that they cannot understand their own behavior, but it is also rather sad.

I understand that a lot of atheists are ex-believers who were hurt by Christianity but it is not fair to take that out on me. I did not do anything to them except try to be their friend. But they cannot be friends with a believer, all they can do is tell me I am wrong about what I believe. They say there is no God, no soul and no afterlife but they have no proof of that. I readily admit believers have no proof either, but there is evidence. By contrast, atheists have no evidence that there is no God, no soul and no afterlife, so they should just admit that, instead of insisting they know. I guess it makes them uncomfortable to have to think about these things, but if they are so sure they do not exist they would be able to just blow me off instead of getting antagonistic. This is psych 101 stuff.

I am interested in what the atheists on this forum have to say about this, but I am also open to hearing the opinions of believers.

Same reason southern Baptists and certain denominations can't stand Catholics. And we'll visa versa.stupidity thus believers and non believers have commonality.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

They want other people not to have belief in God too.

Some do. Most simply don't care-- so long as you don't attempt to force others to conform to what you believe they ought to do, based on what you believe your god told you?

Those sorts will not care in the slightest if you believe, or don't. I fill that category, even though it may seem that I don't.

In fact? Many here in RF, who argue on the side of non-theism, truly don't worry that much.

This place is deliberately set up for people to **communicate**. It has no Force Of Law, however, nothing herein can compel anyone to do anything.

The Sharing of Ideas is literally the only thing that sets humans apart from other animals, when you really get right down to it.

 

[IBdaMann]

Sure, they have an ideology but that could be attacked just like a religion can be attacked.

Not if you don't recognize it. If they claim to be atheists and you take that claim on face value then you won't be attacking their religious beliefs.

No, I think I made it very clear that I do not begrudge atheists, I only dislike certain behaviors of certain atheists,...

Check your wording right here. You did not write "I only dislike certain behaviors of dishonest Marxists claiming to be atheists..." You specifically wrote "I only dislike certain behaviors of certain atheists ..." You clearly have misdirected feelings against atheists because you have been fooled.

If they were REALLY atheists who did not believe in God, my religion would not bother them at all because I would not be a threat.

That's my point. They weren't atheists. They were Marxists of a competing religion. You should have fought back against their Global Warming faith that they will not easily reveal lest they leave themselves vulnerable to attack.

 

[IBdaMann]

You actually think people that are that naive?

Yes. The world is full of gullible people. The U.S. has its full compliment.

 

[ManSinha]

S5-V82. You will find that the people most hostile towards the believers are the Jews and the polytheists. And you will find that the nearest in affection towards the believers are those who say, “We are Christians.” That is because among them are priests and monks, and they are not arrogant.

Interesting that god would supposedly choose favorites - not the god I believe in - but that is another story

 

[sooda]

Interesting that god would supposedly choose favorites - not the god I believe in - but that is another story

He's quoting Muhammed, not God ..

 

[ManSinha]

He is quoting the Qu'ran which is supposedly the word of god - is it not?

 

[Milton Platt]

In December 2017, I left a forum I had been posting on for about four years to come here because of a falling out with the atheist forum owner. I was here for about a year and then that atheist forum owner saw me posting on another forum in that forum group and invited me back to his forum. I went back in December 2018, reticently, and since then I have only been posting here on RF on a limited basis, because I do not have time for both forums. I am now very sorry I ever went back there and I hope I never make the same mistake again.

That forum pretends to be a forum for believers, ex-believers and nonbelievers but it is inhospitable for believers of any kind, particularly for believers of the Baha’i Faith. That is putting it mildly. We are discriminated against because the forum owner has a vendetta against my religion. Christians and Jews are tolerated as long as they do not talk too much about God or their religious beliefs. Mostly what they talk about on that forum are politics and social issues. So they really should not call themselves a “religious forum.”

My most recent academic background is in psychology, so I wonder why people think and do what they think and do. It seems rather obvious to me that if the atheists on that forum are hostile towards me it is because they are threatened in some way. Of course, they would never admit that. It is not as if I am a bit pushy about what I believe, and in fact I only discussed my beliefs if someone else posted to me about my beliefs. Then I responded and I got blamed for proselytizing. This is wholly unjust.

This last falling out was precipitated by the forum owner having a hissy fit for what he considered me mentioning my religion too much and then he put me on moderation. I sent him a private message that I will not post on his forum while on moderation because that is unjust, since I broke no forum rules, and I told him I was leaving his forum. Of course most of the atheists are glad I am gone. I am also glad I am gone because now I am back here and the atheists on this forum have been so different. They are mature adults, not little children acting out.

There is no reason why those atheists would act out that way unless they were afraid of what I have to say. They do not react to the other believers on that forum that way because they do not dare talk much about God or their religion, because they are too afraid of being insulted. But I never cared about being insulted; I stood right up to them, but I was always polite. And I never told them that they should believe in God, as I am very well aware of the reasons atheists do not believe in God and I respect those reasons. Why can’t we all just get along? Is that too much to ask?

Imagine that! I dare to talk about God and my religion on a “religious forum.”

The forum owner just wants to control everything I post, it is so obvious. Why can’t other people see this? It is psych 101 stuff. I know atheists are intelligent, but the atheists on that forum seem to wear blinders regarding the reasons for their fearless leader’s behaviors.

Finally, they call that forum a “free thinkers” forum and I find the very ironic, because nobody has changed the way they think since I went there five years ago. They are not free to think anything that contradicts their atheism and they don’t want to hear about it. Then they rank on believers and say we are not free to think because we have a religion. They say we are just “brainwashed believers.” It is comical that they cannot understand their own behavior, but it is also rather sad.

I understand that a lot of atheists are ex-believers who were hurt by Christianity but it is not fair to take that out on me. I did not do anything to them except try to be their friend. But they cannot be friends with a believer, all they can do is tell me I am wrong about what I believe. They say there is no God, no soul and no afterlife but they have no proof of that. I readily admit believers have no proof either, but there is evidence. By contrast, atheists have no evidence that there is no God, no soul and no afterlife, so they should just admit that, instead of insisting they know. I guess it makes them uncomfortable to have to think about these things, but if they are so sure they do not exist they would be able to just blow me off instead of getting antagonistic. This is psych 101 stuff.

I am interested in what the atheists on this forum have to say about this, but I am also open to hearing the opinions of believers.

There are good people and bad people....irrespective of religious beliefs. Whether it can be considered fair or not, if that moderator owns the blog, he can do whatever he wishes within the confines of the law. If he displays an obvious lack of fairness, however, he will lose a lot of people who could have contributed to the conversation.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why did you choose to refer to atheism at all then? Why didn’t you ask about “some men”, “some internet users” or “some people”? It may well have been entirely subconscious, but you were clearly identifying this as an attack coming from a type of person rather than the identified individual (so much easier to do over the internet unfortunately). Ironically, that is part of the answer to your initial question. The person you’re complaining about probably has a very similar perception of the conversation as you do, just from the opposite direction.

I identified him as an atheist because it was important to the context of the OP, which was about that forum which it is primarily an atheist forum which pretends to be a forum for believers, ex-believers and nonbelievers but it is inhospitable for believers of any kind, particularly for believers of the Baha’i Faith.

Of course he has his own opinion of me, but he never talks about his own thoughts and feelings about the matter, he only talks about what he thinks mine are, as if he knows my thoughts and feelings and intentions. That is infuriating, but what is even more infuriating is that when I clearly state how I think and feel and what my intentions are he tells me I am wrong about myself, as if he knows me better than I know myself. I do not mind if he points out behavior he sees, but he cannot know the reason for that behavior, and unless it is against a forum rule, I don’t know what I should be critiqued constantly.

Notably, I am singled out as he does not do that to anyone else on the forum. Of course when called out on that he will say that is because nobody else acts like me, but what did I actually do wrong? I just responded to posts posted to me and if people asked me about my religion I responded. He just does not like my religion, he has even admitted to that. He does not mind Christianity or Judaism and rarely are Christians ever accused of proselytizing even when they do. Anyhow, I told him I do not think he will ever change how he thinks about me so it is best I not post there anymore. I do not care what the other posters think of me because they do not own the forum. I cannot post on a forum where the owner strikes out at me at the drop of a hat, with no warning.

I’m part of countless subgroups; we all are. I’m not talking about pretending that isn’t the case, only about treating people on their individual merits despitewed human beings and need to actively work to achieve these principles in our day-to-day lives. that fact. I’ve no doubt this is a Baha’I principle too but I expect you also recognise that we’re all flawed human beings and need to actively work to achieve these principles in our day-to-day lives

I certainly do not think of him as I do because he is an atheist. All my best friends in that forum group are atheists. It is because of the way he has singled me out and treated me over the years. For a long time he is nice to me and then he suddenly blows a gasket.

Just to give you an idea of the discrimination, once for almost two years, he and his moderator created a special thread called “Baha’i” and that was the only place we could ever mention the Baha’i Faith, kind of like solitary confinement. It was just one thread that went on forever because we could not start any new threads. It was as if we had been quarantined. Really it was not “us” because I am the only Baha’i who posts there. There is one other Baha’i but all she does is chat and talk about politics and other subjects, rarely about religion.

At that time there were some very aggressive atheists on that forum so he said that is one reason we were put there, to protect us from those who did not want to read about Baha’ion other threads. But then what did they do? They came to that Baha’i thread and started posting there, after they has said they did not want to hear about or talk about Baha’i. Later, after those people left, he changed the rules and even said it was okay to post Baha’i writings, but I did not take advantage of that. I still only answered questions or mentioned it if it was closely related to a conversation.

My point is that I was always respectful of that forum owner and his rules, but I kept getting accused of breaking rules, namely the no proselytizing rule. Just talking about religion is considered proselytizing, but only if it is my religion. Christians can yak away all they want to as long as they do not outwardly preach or threaten people with hell.

 

[Trailblazer]

First, please allow me to express my sympathy. You are obviously a sensitive person, and feel hurt by what happened in that other forum. But as others have noted, you don't have to be there, and it seems like it's vexing you. You are welcome here by most posters.

Thanks. I am particularly hurt by this forum owner because he is not just another poster. I have known him many years and I feel like I have somewhat of a relationship with him, and from my point of view it was amiable, because I do not have any bad feelings towards him, until he starts falsely accusing me of posting things I did not post and having intent I do not have. That hurts. For some reason I kept getting drawn back there but I think I am finally gone for good. Certain attitudes are just not going to change and it just is not worth the time or trouble.Most of the atheists on that forum make fun of believers, in one way or another. The air of superiority is self-evident, so much different than here.The posters here are so much nicer, which is no doubt why everyone gets along better here. The other reason is probably because it is more democratic, as opposed to being a dictatorship run by one person.

I'm assuming that you mean religious beliefs. I continually judge people by their beliefs and bet that you do as well. I judged the tiki marchers at Charlottesville adversely for their bigotry. Somebody left a post on this thread mocking taking climate change seriously. Opinions like those tell me a lot about a person's character and / or how a person processes information.

I was speaking in general. Of course, there are individuals I do not respect, if they disrespect me and betray my trust. I try not to judge people but with some people it is difficult not to, especially if there is evidence of what they have done. I also do not respect certain groups such as white supremacists, because what they believe and practice stands in complete opposition to my beliefs.

Once again, I'm assuming that you mean an unfounded belief held by faith. Some beliefs are well supported. I'm expecting to go out in the car this afternoon, and I expect it to start when I turn the key in the ignition just like it has the last several hundred times it was tested.

Yes, I was talking about religious beliefs, but other beliefs we have ae also based upon faith. You have faith that your car will start or that your wife won’t cheat on you but you cannot prove it will always be the case so it is not a fact, it is a belief, a hope. Batteries and starters do go bad, as do spouses.

"Proven" and "true" are words I'm using less and less. If an idea has demonstrated its usefulness in reliably predicting and at times controlling outcomes, the idea is a keeper and is appropriate to add to one's fund of knowledge whether one considers that proof or not. Consider these terms:

Instrumentalism - belief that statements or theories may be used as tools for useful prediction without reference to their possible truth or falsity. Peirce and other pragmatists defended an instrumentalist account of modern science.

Empirical adequacy - A theory is empirically adequate, roughly, if all of what it says about observable aspects of the world (past, present, and future) can be confirmed

Fallibilism - the principle that propositions concerning empirical knowledge can be accepted even though they cannot be proved with certainty.

Some beliefs can be regarded as true if they can meet these criteria without troubling oneself with ideas like ultimate truth or absolute truth. Newton's work on celestial mechanics was improved upon by Laplace and Einstein, who demonstrated that Newton's work was incomplete, and for certain applications, inadequate. Nevertheless, Newton's equations can be used to send a probe to Pluto and expect them to rendezvous in a time and place anticipated by those equations. Is Newton's work true? It's surely useful, and that's what matters.

Would you apply the same criteria to a religion that cannot be proven to be true? What if you could not prove a religion was from God but it is for the good of humanity?

I do not believe that any religion is the ultimate or absolute truth, because all of God’s Truth can never be revealed at any one time. Truth is revealed progressively over time, as humanity has the capacity to understand it and the need to know it. More Truth will always be revealed in the future as human capacity increases. Jesus could not tell of everything He knew and that is why He said He had many things to say but you cannot bear them now. Baha’u’llah revealed what humanity could not bear back in the days of Jesus, but He said that we were not ready to hear everything He knew. Thus history repeats itself.

 

[Trailblazer]

I am muslim, and I read daily some verses of the holly coran which tell us all about our life, and regarding faith we have this verse:

S5-V82. You will find that the people most hostile towards the believers are the Jews and the polytheists. And you will find that the nearest in affection towards the believers are those who say, “We are Christians.” That is because among them are priests and monks, and they are not arrogant.

I guess you mean that Jews and polytheists are the most hostile towards Muslims. Can you think of any reasons why polytheists and Jews would be hostile towards Muslims? Polytheists believe in more than or God, so they mightbe hostile towards Muslims, since Muslims believe in only One God, Allah. Jews might be hostile because they don’t believe that any more prophets came after the Torah was recorded, so they must believe that Muhammad was a false prophet. Christians do not believe that there were any Prophets after Jesus so most Christians I know believe that Muhammad was a false prophet.

Please discover this video with me:

Thanks, that was a good video. I wish Christians would watch it. If all Christians had that attitude they could change the world.

 

[ManSinha]

@Trailblazer

Let me tell you a story I read (presumably as part of the Jataka Tales) a long time ago

There were two (male) monks of a celibate order where they did not have any association of any kind with women
They were walking in the forest and came upon the bank of a river that was rising
On its shore was a woman weeping because her ill father was dying in his hut on the other side
She begged for their help in crossing the river

The second monk said - "I am not permitted to have any contact with women and so I cannot help you"
The first monk quietly hoisted her on his back and carried her over to where the grateful lady said goodbye and went her way

Several hours later the second monk asked the first how he could carry a woman on his back given the rules of the order

The first replied. - I carried her for a short time; it would appear that you are still carrying her

 

[Trailblazer]

I just got a youtube today ... this clearly gives the answer to your OP

Thanks. That was the perfect video for the occasion. It made me think about why I was on that forum and why I should not be anymore. I felt obligated to stay, but when the blowout happened I felt relieved that I did not have to stay anymore. Each time I leave, I wonder why I was even there. That should tell me something.

The best part was this: “God put people in your life for a reason, others are there for a season, and it is very important that you recognize when the season is over.” I think the season for me to be on that other forum is over. This forum was the new season for me and then I went back to that forum but now I am back here to stay, hopefully.

I could say so much more about that video, but it’s late. I plan to go over it again and write some things down, so I may be back with more comments.

 

[charlie sc]

I identified him as an atheist because it was important to the context of the OP, which was about that forum which it is primarily an atheist forum which pretends to be a forum for believers, ex-believers and nonbelievers but it is inhospitable for believers of any kind, particularly for believers of the Baha’i Faith.

Of course he has his own opinion of me, but he never talks about his own thoughts and feelings about the matter, he only talks about what he thinks mine are, as if he knows my thoughts and feelings and intentions. That is infuriating, but what is even more infuriating is that when I clearly state how I think and feel and what my intentions are he tells me I am wrong about myself, as if he knows me better than I know myself. I do not mind if he points out behavior he sees, but he cannot know the reason for that behavior, and unless it is against a forum rule, I don’t know what I should be critiqued constantly.

Notably, I am singled out as he does not do that to anyone else on the forum. Of course when called out on that he will say that is because nobody else acts like me, but what did I actually do wrong? I just responded to posts posted to me and if people asked me about my religion I responded. He just does not like my religion, he has even admitted to that. He does not mind Christianity or Judaism and rarely are Christians ever accused of proselytizing even when they do. Anyhow, I told him I do not think he will ever change how he thinks about me so it is best I not post there anymore. I do not care what the other posters think of me because they do not own the forum. I cannot post on a forum where the owner strikes out at me at the drop of a hat, with no warning.

I certainly do not think of him as I do because he is an atheist. All my best friends in that forum group are atheists. It is because of the way he has singled me out and treated me over the years. For a long time he is nice to me and then he suddenly blows a gasket.

Just to give you an idea of the discrimination, once for almost two years, he and his moderator created a special thread called “Baha’i” and that was the only place we could ever mention the Baha’i Faith, kind of like solitary confinement. It was just one thread that went on forever because we could not start any new threads. It was as if we had been quarantined. Really it was not “us” because I am the only Baha’i who posts there. There is one other Baha’i but all she does is chat and talk about politics and other subjects, rarely about religion.

At that time there were some very aggressive atheists on that forum so he said that is one reason we were put there, to protect us from those who did not want to read about Baha’ion other threads. But then what did they do? They came to that Baha’i thread and started posting there, after they has said they did not want to hear about or talk about Baha’i. Later, after those people left, he changed the rules and even said it was okay to post Baha’i writings, but I did not take advantage of that. I still only answered questions or mentioned it if it was closely related to a conversation.

My point is that I was always respectful of that forum owner and his rules, but I kept getting accused of breaking rules, namely the no proselytizing rule. Just talking about religion is considered proselytizing, but only if it is my religion. Christians can yak away all they want to as long as they do not outwardly preach or threaten people with hell.

You seem to give an impression of a victim and the victim mentality. I have no doubt you are hurt, but I see no good reason you'd post your bad experience of a particular forum on the debate section, unless you're looking to defend your victimised mentality. Perhaps because you were hurt by someone who is an atheist, you'd want to get some sort of vendetta by converting other atheists to your cause and argue against them all the while blaming atheism in some way. If you really wanted closure or healing, I'd think a good thing to do is stop going on forums, speak to loved ones or speak on sections here more devoted to supporting others. This does not seem to be the case. You seem to blame those that have harmed you, but there's no way we can examine their side or if you really did the things they said. In my experience, it's never a good idea to side with one person over another without at least hearing their side first. Even then, sometimes it's best to stay neutral. This lack of evidence has been expressed by others in this thread as well.

So what exactly is your goal if you aren't generalising and want answers from atheists?

 

[HonestJoe]

I identified him as an atheist because it was important to the context of the OP, which was about that forum which it is primarily an atheist forum which pretends to be a forum for believers, ex-believers and nonbelievers but it is inhospitable for believers of any kind, particularly for believers of the Baha’i Faith.

You didn’t just identify him alone though, you specifically asked about “some atheists”. You’ve still not established why it is legitimate to extend his individual behaviour on to anyone else on the basis of his beliefs but not on the basis of any other characteristic he might have. You’re explicitly (if unintentionally) associating the bad behaviour with atheism rather than the simple if boring fact that some people just aren’t very nice.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

................ In my experience, exclusively Christian groups are extremely intolerant of people who don't share their view of life. I grew up in a very hardcore evangelical environment, and the mentality of the Christians was always an "us vs. them" mentality i.e. the holy believers vs. "the world." They associate with non-believers, but there is always an air of condescension toward them as if they cannot be part of the group...................

In my experience, is it exclusively Christian groups or rather 'so-called Christian groups' because we are informed that MANY would come 'in Jesus' name' but prove false as found at Matthew chapter 7.
'Christendom' (so-called Christian but mostly in name only) started to develop shortly after the first century ended.
False clergy dressed in sheep's clothing, so to speak, would fleece the Flock of God as per Acts 20:29-30.
So, it is possible, what many experience as supposed to be 'exclusively Christian' is really experiencing Christendom.
Genuine or 'wheat' Christians would be living by Jesus' New commandment to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has. In other words, to now love neighbor 'more' than self - as per John 13:34-35.
Such love of neighbor would have to include Not joining in with anyone's bad or immoral behavior.
Thus, such association would have to limited because as the old adage goes a rotten apple can spoil the whole bunch.
This does Not mean to be condescending to anyone, after all Jesus said not to judge, so one would Not want to judge by imputing a wrong or a bad motive to anyone.
I wonder, if everyone lived by the Golden Rule would there be an ' air of condescension ' toward anyone _____
Or rather, the lack of applying the Golden Rule is what has caused the condescension _____