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Why are alcohol and tobacco ok but not other drugs ?

ronki23

Well-Known Member
The only mind altering substances I take are SSRI antidepressants and antipsychotics which have been prescribed by psychiatrists.

The notion that Marijuana is not addictive is absolute nonsense. If it wasn't addictive then a) why do people want it legalised and b) why do they listen to Bob Marley and put up posters in their room of drug addicts ?

The Beatles and the Rolling Stones were big users of drugs.

Lemmy Killmiester 'only' smoked cigarettes and drank whisky
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Culture and corporate propaganda. The alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceutical corps have an agenda to keep alternatives from the people and they buy off politicians. The paper industry would have a reason to keep hemp down, too. It's all about money.

I'm on an SNRI and I want off because the withdrawals (which they conveniently don't warn you about) are hellish. They don't really know what they're doing, honestly. Antidepressants weren't originally meant to be prescribed for longtime use but now they've made addicts out of millions, many of which can't get off them because their lives will be wrecked.
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
If it wasn't addictive then a) why do people want it legalised
Thats not an argument ir evidence, or suddenly every illegal thing people want legal is addictive.
why do they listen to Bob Marley and put up posters in their room of drug addicts ?
I know people who don't use cannabis whi like Bob Marley.
Lemmy Killmiester 'only' smoked cigarettes and drank whisky
He drank a quart of Jack (or some other whiskey) every day.
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Thats not an argument ir evidence, or suddenly every illegal thing people want legal is addictive.

I know people who don't use cannabis whi like Bob Marley.

He drank a quart of Jack (or some other whiskey) every day.

What I meant was that if they want it legalised then that means they want access to it, so they are addicted.

Awesome you know about Lemmy- more than me I'm not a huge Mötorhead fan but my tattooist is (he's not young- in his 50s) and lots of YouTube comments regarding Lemmy were that his voice came from. I assume the cardiac problems came from chain smoking ?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
What I meant was that if they want it legalised then that means they want access to it, so they are addicted.
Or they want medicine. Or they just want to get high. Wanting it legal to use it does not mean you are addicted. Where that the case, pot usage would likely go up where/when it becomes legal, but usage tends to go down.
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Or they want medicine. Or they just want to get high. Wanting it legal to use it does not mean you are addicted. Where that the case, pot usage would likely go up where/when it becomes legal, but usage tends to go down.

Oops! I read (on Wikipedia) that Lemmy also took acid and meth. So much for him dying from legal drugs

Christopher Hitchens on the other hand was a heavy smoker and whiskey drinker
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
What I meant was that if they want it legalised then that means they want access to it, so they are addicted.

Awesome you know about Lemmy- more than me I'm not a huge Mötorhead fan but my tattooist is (he's not young- in his 50s) and lots of YouTube comments regarding Lemmy were that his voice came from. I assume the cardiac problems came from chain smoking ?
No, they want it legalized for civil rights reasons and because marijuana is known to be helpful in treating various conditions and shows promise in treating more. I know I'd rather smoke a joint than drink alcohol or smoke tobacco. It would help with my mental health issues a lot, as well. It's legal in my state for medical use but it costs an arm and a leg to get a medical card that allows you to buy it from a dispensary, let alone actually buying the weed. Then there's restrictions on how much and how often you can buy it. It's ridiculous. No reason to have it be illegal.

Yeah, Lemmy's substance abuse is what ultimately killed him. He had cancer, lung problems and heart problems.
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
No, they want it legalized for civil rights reasons and because marijuana is known to be helpful in treating various conditions and shows promise in treating more. I know I'd rather smoke a joint than drink alcohol or smoke tobacco. It would help with my mental health issues a lot, as well. It's legal in my state for medical use but it costs an arm and a leg to get a medical card that allows you to buy it from a dispensary, let alone actually buying the weed. Then there's restrictions on how much and how often you can buy it. It's ridiculous. No reason to have it be illegal.

Yeah, Lemmy's substance abuse is what ultimately killed him. He had cancer, lung problems and heart problems.

I'm not a huge Mötorhead fan but it's cool how everyone knows about Lemmy.
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Or they want medicine. Or they just want to get high. Wanting it legal to use it does not mean you are addicted. Where that the case, pot usage would likely go up where/when it becomes legal, but usage tends to go down.

Oops! I read (on Wikipedia) that Lemmy also took acid and meth. So much for him dying from legal drugs

Christopher Hitchens on the other hand was a heavy smoker and whiskey drinker

No, they want it legalized for civil rights reasons and because marijuana is known to be helpful in treating various conditions and shows promise in treating more. I know I'd rather smoke a joint than drink alcohol or smoke tobacco. It would help with my mental health issues a lot, as well. It's legal in my state for medical use but it costs an arm and a leg to get a medical card that allows you to buy it from a dispensary, let alone actually buying the weed. Then there's restrictions on how much and how often you can buy it. It's ridiculous. No reason to have it be illegal.

Yeah, Lemmy's substance abuse is what ultimately killed him. He had cancer, lung problems and heart problems.

Did George Harrison's cancer come from drug use ? What was Jimi Hendrix addicted to ? Elvis?
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
The only mind altering substances I take are SSRI antidepressants and antipsychotics which have been prescribed by psychiatrists.

The notion that Marijuana is not addictive is absolute nonsense. If it wasn't addictive then a) why do people want it legalised and b) why do they listen to Bob Marley and put up posters in their room of drug addicts ?

The Beatles and the Rolling Stones were big users of drugs.

Lemmy Killmiester 'only' smoked cigarettes and drank whisky
I’m actually starting to lean towards legalisation on a massive scale.
Hell there are religious ceremonies which directly use marijuana.
Not because I think drugs aren’t bad for people, but the war on them is certainly not doing anyone any favours.
Rehabilitation and taking away the criminal element is a concept I’m growing increasingly warm to lately.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Did George Harrison's cancer come from drug use ? What was Jimi Hendrix addicted to ? Elvis?
I don't know about Harrison as I don't follow the Beatles but Jimi Hendrix was a huge alcoholic who used a bunch of other drugs. He died from suffocating on his own vomit after mixing alcohol and barbiturates. (Never ever mix alcohol with another CNS depressive!)
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I’m actually starting to lean towards legalisation on a massive scale.
Hell there are religious ceremonies which directly use marijuana.
Not because I think drugs aren’t bad for people, but the war on them is certainly not doing anyone any favours.
Rehabilitation and taking away the criminal element is a concept I’m growing increasingly warm to lately.
Drug use is a health and civil rights issue. The government had no business making it a criminal issue. Weed was made illegal partially due to racism towards Mexicans and black people, as they were the main groups who used it in America. They made up a ton of lies to scare people about it when it's fairly harmless. It's much less harmful than many of the drugs that doctors throw at people.

I think all drugs should be legalized or at least decriminalized. That will kill the black market and the evil drug cartels (which also have crooked politicians in their pocket). It will allow addicts to get the help they need, too. We need to work on eradicating the stigma, as well. Many, many lives will be saved throughout the globe and Latin America could be stabilized and even become very rich if we allow them to cultivate things like weed and sell it legally. Especially the tribal people if they are allowed to cultivate the coca plant for traditional reasons. Also, ayahuasca, peyote, etc. It could lift tribal peoples out of poverty.

Obviously people aren't going to stop using these substances for obvious reasons so we should make it as safe as we can.
 
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SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Drug use is a health and civil rights issue. The government had no business making it a criminal issue. Weed was made illegal partially due to racism towards Mexicans and black people, as they were the main groups who used it in America. They made up a ton of lies to scare people about it when it's fairly harmless. It's much less harmful than many of the drugs that doctors throw at people.

I think all drugs should be legalized or at least decriminalized. That will kill the black market and the evil drug cartels (which also have crooked politicians in their pocket). It will allow addicts to get the help they need, too. We need to work on eradicating the stigma, as well. Many, many lives will be saved throughout the globe and Latin America could be stabilized and even become very rich if we allow them to cultivate things like weed and sell it legally. Especially the tribal people if they are allowed to cultivate the coca plant for traditional reasons. Also, ayahuasca, peyote, etc. It could lift tribal peoples out of poverty.

Obviously people aren't going to stop using these substances for obvious reasons so we should make it as safe as we can.
See this is where I find myself becoming more sympathetic to the idea of legalisation.
I was always of the opinion that rehabilitation should have first priority when dealing with drug addicts. And I have long supported our free clean needle exchange, because it just seems more practical to me. People will use drugs, but that doesn’t mean we just should allow the issues that come with needle usage to go unchecked.
But I was a little tentative towards outright legalisation. But the more issues I see with the “war” the more I support the measure

I’m not sure why our government banned drugs, I’m sure it was our own versions of racism. But I think we need pragmatic solutions to drug use. Because like you said, people are always going to get high or drunk. We should ensure that such activities are as safe as possible with treatment being on hand at all times.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
See this is where I find myself becoming more sympathetic to the idea of legalisation.
I was always of the opinion that rehabilitation should have first priority when dealing with drug addicts. And I have long supported our free clean needle exchange, because it just seems more practical to me. People will use drugs, but that doesn’t mean we just should allow the issues that come with needle usage to go unchecked.
But I was a little tentative towards outright legalisation. But the more issues I see with the “war” the more I support the measure

I’m not sure why our government banned drugs, I’m sure it was our own versions of racism. But I think we need pragmatic solutions to drug use. Because like you said, people are always going to get high or drunk. We should ensure that such activities are as safe as possible with treatment being on hand at all times.
I recall a study that was done in Europe, I think it was, where medical professionals monitored the dosage of heroin and allowed them to inject under supervision, it greatly cut down on overdoses. What happens is that opioid users develop a tolerance to it and so start needing higher dosages of it to get high. But they don't know what their limits are, and these street drugs are often cut with other dangerous substances along with them not knowing the purity of the drug (dealers often lie or don't know themselves), so they end up accidentally overdosing and dying. They're not consciously trying to kill themselves.

But say if the heroin user was allowed to inject medical grade heroin under medical supervision with their doctor advising them - they would be much safer. It would be easier to wean them off of it, too, if they wish to stop using it. So lives would be saved right there. Even if they didn't want to stop (which should be a decision between them and their doctor), they would still be much safer.

The needle issue also effects me as a trans man. I can't get my insurance to pay for my injection supplies for testosterone because they think people will use the needles and syringes to inject illegal drugs. Go figure, as the needles used aren't for intravenous injection in the first place (they're far too large for that). So I either have to pay for it or ask my doctor to give me a supply for free. I have to ask my doctor on Tuesday for a supply when I speak to her on a phone appointment since I'm out of supplies and then the dumb pharmacy I use only gave me enough for 2 weeks, when I take my medication weekly. I have no income so can't be wasting what little money I do have on that. I've had to reuse needles thanks to my insurance and injecting with a dull needle is very painful.

I used to be straight edge (I was part of the hardcore punk scene, and still am) throughout my teens and thought that addicts were lowlifes. But I researched and came to realize how wrong I was. It is well-known that the "war on drugs" is a complete failure that has directly and indirectly caused millions of deaths over the decades. So we have to believe that our governments only carry it on for stupid and nefarious reasons.
 
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BSM1

What? Me worry?
I don't know about Harrison as I don't follow the Beatles but Jimi Hendrix was a huge alcoholic who used a bunch of other drugs. He died from suffocating on his own vomit after mixing alcohol and barbiturates. (Never ever mix alcohol with another CNS depressive!)

Not that I disagree with you, but I heard recently that there may be some interest in looking at Jimi's girl friend a little closer concerning some suspicious activity around his death. Also, the last I heard, ayahuasca is legal.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Part of this is cultural. Alcohol is forbidden to Muslims, for example.

Some people want to take drugs for the intoxication. They may become physically or psychologically dependent on it.

There are also medical uses for some drugs as well.

I have zero problems with any drug taken under medical supervision to deal with a problem.

I'm torn about recreational use. People can become physically or psychologically dependent on a drug to the point where it interferes with their lives. If any drug is too easily obtainable it can be harder for such people to get off the drug that's interfering with their lives. But on the other hand, having the drug illegal leads to all the problems that are obvious today.

But on the whole I think that destroying people's lives by making them criminals is a worse path.
 
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