Why are idols bad?

[Pegg]

Nah, I just gotta grow a thicker skin, that's all.

Now, what about the bible, Pegg? If I were draw on it as I draw on white paper, wouldn't that offend you? If I were to tear out pages and use them as toilet paper, wouldn't you find that highly offensive (not just because DON'T DO THAT TO BOOKS, BOOKS ARE IMPORTANT. Btw, I'd NEVER do that)? What if I were to use it to line my cat's litter tray or as mulch? You'd find that offensive, wouldn't you?

i dont view the actually book, paper and ink, as sacred. I take the message as what is sacred...so you can literally do what you wish to the book, it makes no difference to me. I actually do writing in my bible...i have a study bible with many parts highlighted and notations made in the margins and verses underlined.

Actually i remember placing a bible with an indian lady and she asked me how she should store the book. She though that it may need to be placed in a special casket, but i explained that the book is just a book....you can keep it on the kitchen table if you want to. It holds no magical powers and is not something you would need to pray with. The message within the bible is what is sacred.

As a Christian don't you believe the bible is sacred but your god has said 'take nothing before me'. If you are to worship nothing before god wouldn't it make sense that the bible, while the word of god, is only important if you do not know it? Once you know it, once you have accepted god's words and know the teachings, what good is it then? But it still has an important place in your household, you still run your fingers over it like it is something precious?

I wouldnt say i run my fingers over it like it is something precious, no. If i drop it on the ground, or accidentally tear a page, i dont feel the need to ask forgiveness. The most sacred act is to pray to God...reading his word is extremely important, but it does not override the act of prayer...you see, when we pray, we dont do it with physical things, prayer is the only completely spiritual activity we do because it is between yourself and God alone.

The same goes for the koran, guys. Both of these books are worshipped. I've seen it. I see it every day, done by every day Muslims and Christians. Doesn't anyone ever stop to think that a book can take the place of one those hated idols any day?

that is possible...its possible with any physical thing we have which is religious. But that is why we need to be very careful not to allow physical things to become the center of our worship. And i believe even Hinduism promotes the idea of not being attached to physical things.

if we want to attain to true spirituality, we must take the proper view of all physical things used in our worship...that goes for our buildings, our clothing, our religious relics etc.... they cannot bring us close to a spiritual God and if we need them to bring us close to a spiritual God, then we have not found the key to true spirituality. If you attend a kingdom hall of Jehovahs witnesses you will not find any religious icons or paraphernalia or images or incense or anything that remotely looks like a religious item. To worship God spiritually means to worship him without physical help.

 

[Pegg]

Aspects of God are worshiped as aspects. Not as God himself. Ganesha is an aspect, not actually God.

Interestingly, Ganesha is the son of Shiva. Shaivaits see Shiva as the Supreme Godhead. Ganesha is the son. So those who worship Ganesha are sort of like Christians who worship Jesus, the son.

lol, yeah i see what you mean

 

[Vinayaka]

I think much of it (the hatred (dislike) of idolatry) is probably a historical misunderstanding stemming from a Eurocentric superiourity complex. It wasn't just idolatry that was bad, but also food, clothing, the languages, and more. So in the waves of following the leader (Islamic invasions, etc) some 60 000 temples containing idols were destroyed. It comes from a basic 'We're smarter" complex.

But on this thread, I think Pegg has dome a good job of explaining the JW POV without just getting rude and nasty about it.

In the big picture, I don't see how style of expressing faith means much unless there a building of character towards humanity going along with it. Every person should come out of their church, mosque, synagogue, or temple each time a slightly better person.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Namaste

I do not understand the vehemence with which some religions talk about idols. What, exactly, about idols is bad? As a Hindu I use a murti (what Abrahamics would call an idol) in my worship. This 'idol' is not God but it represents God and the many forms God takes. How is this bad?

No one I know worships the actual idol; we worship the force that the idol embodies. Why these harsh injunctions against anyone who does this? Why is it considered bad?

There is a danger in confusing the map with the territory that many religions sought to avoid. They might also have been afraid of the objectification of their gods, since it is easier to fear a person than an object.

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Idol worship is condemned in the scriptures.

However, we must not consider the Deity Form (archa vigraha) as an ordinary metal object.

The Lord's incarnation as Deity (archa avatara) is a special manifestation of the Lord's mercy towards neophyte devotees. They are unable to perceive the Lord in His eternal abode, and therefore the Lord descends as the Deity form.

Deities are of two kinds:-

Prakasha Incarnation: These are sculptured. Later, through Vedic mantras, life force is installed in them, to accept various services of the devotees.

Swayam-prakasha Incarnation: These are self-manifested. They are not sculptured. The Lord, under the influence of the love of a particular devotee manifests Himself as a Deity to reciprocate loving exchanges.

The Deity of Sri Radharaman manifested from one of Gopal Bhatta Goswami's salagram-silas on a full moon day of Vaisakha (April/May) in 1542.

Below is a self-manifest Deity of Supreme Lord - Sri Radha-Raman Deva.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

According to psychoanalyst Erich Fromm , idol worship is a symptom of self-alienation. It's like a person is taking an aspect of self and placing it in a cold dead thing call an idol and worshiping it.

 

[Desert Snake]

Friend DK,


Yes it is similar to what Jesus said:" Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
If they are conscious that everything in existence are all parts of that same consciousness including themselves who says such things cause they are deviated by SATAN [mind] to not follow the laws of the existence [garden of eden]

Where are you getting the idea that Satan means mind?

 

[Father Heathen]

Imagine if you sat to have your portrait painted and the end result looks nothing like you, imagine if it looked more like one of the pets you keep in a cage. Can you imagine being told that this is how the artist perceives you, this is what you look like to him and all the characteristics of the creature is said to be what you yourself are?

Ironic considering this is precisely what religion itself does. After all, does your bible not paint a picture from ancient goat herders' perspective?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

We have a form of idol worship here in the west.

It's called consumer capitalism.

You see idols are things, often shiny things that people are in awe of. We bow to them, spend all our time trying to appease these things, we give a good amount of our attention to these thing, we fling money and other offerings at these things.

 

[Tbone]

Namaste

I do not understand the vehemence with which some religions talk about idols. What, exactly, about idols is bad? As a Hindu I use a murti (what Abrahamics would call an idol) in my worship. This 'idol' is not God but it represents God and the many forms God takes. How is this bad?

No one I know worships the actual idol; we worship the force that the idol embodies. Why these harsh injunctions against anyone who does this? Why is it considered bad?

All idols are created and as such, point the worshiper away from the true creator God.
It's really very simple.

 

[Marble]

Don't you think that God is beyond being inside a mere idol?

Wouldn't it be more fitting to say that God is great and 'everywhere' (literally from a Hindu perspective) and just pray in the open without directing your prayer to a specific lifeless idol?

When God is everywhere, he is also inside of the idol.
When God is everything, he is the idol too.
Idols are focus points for concentration when doing prayer or meditation.

 

[Vinayaka]

According to psychoanalyst Erich Fromm , idol worship is a symptom of self-alienation. It's like a person is taking an aspect of self and placing it in a cold dead thing call an idol and worshiping it.

Psychoanalysts would be prone to say such a thing. There's lots of business in India ... 900 million self-alienated people just waiting for a psychoanalyst to come an cure us all of such mental disability ..

 

[Breathe]

All idols are created and as such, point the worshiper away from the true creator God.
It's really very simple.

How on earth do you come to that conclusion?

 

[Father Heathen]

All idols are created and as such, point the worshiper away from the true creator God.
It's really very simple.

This includes statues of jesus, right?

 

[F0uad]

I am sorry to say this but do not certain Christian community's do the same for example they have idol's and images of Jesus(p) in there churches and then pray in the name of Jesus(p)... towards Jesus(p).

Maybe i am confused but i am certain the Roman Catholics do use Idols as worship..

 

[F0uad]

When God is everywhere, he is also inside of the idol.
When God is everything, he is the idol too.
Idols are focus points for concentration when doing prayer or meditation.

Muslims do not belief ''God is everything'' its better to say everything comes from god.
In islam we cannot equal god with Idols or anything therefore we know to pray to a being that we cannot describe. As Pegg mentioned before the creation of a creator is always less then the creator.

 

[Madhuri]

According to psychoanalyst Erich Fromm , idol worship is a symptom of self-alienation. It's like a person is taking an aspect of self and placing it in a cold dead thing call an idol and worshiping it.

Shows how much he knows, lol.

 

[Madhuri]

All idols are created and as such, point the worshiper away from the true creator God.
It's really very simple.

Except that because the worshiper is not necessarily a complete idiot, then our form of worship does not point us away from God. I guess you have to be a part of it to know what I'm talking about.

 

[Madhuri]

Muslims do not belief ''God is everything'' its better to say everything comes from god.
In islam we cannot equal god with Idols or anything therefore we know to pray to a being that we cannot describe. As Pegg mentioned before the creation of a creator is always less then the creator.

The only difference is that the Hindu believes that God becomes present in Spirit within an physical object for the sake of his devotee. It is due to love and mercy that he does this for our sake. And hence the devotee who has this benefit experiences great love and relationship with the Lord in all areas of their life.

Again, you can only know this by experiencing it.

 

[Bob Dixon]

The Hindu concept of murti would, I think, not be translated well as "idol" for a Christian audience. Rather, a better translation is "icon".