Why are people Catholic?

[beerisit]

Ooh I used to work very hard at getting the job as altar boy for funerals and weddings, you always got a little something (money) from all sorts of people.........love it.

 

[4consideration]

Ok, anybody else here actually make up sins for Confession because it was time to go and you couldn't think of anything really wrong that you did...but you knew it wasn't OK to say "I have nothing to confess" -- so you just made up some innocuous ones.. then topped off the confession list with "I lied" to cover all the ones you just told in Confession?

No? Me neither.

 

[HerDotness]

Bet you had noooo idea, Beerisit, how many sweet little Catholic girls were lusting after...your job. I sooooo wanted to be an altar girl, but fat chance back then.

Yep, I should have included the Latin Mass on my fond memories list. There was nothing like it for giving a feeling of awe and mystique, even when you were geeky enough as I was to learn what the Latin meant so as not to need your missal.

But I still laugh about how veeeery carefully the nun directing the girls' choir I was in for a while instructed us in Latin pronunciation for the hymn, "O Sanctissima" which went "O, Sanctissima. O, Piissima." That it was pronounced, "pee-ISS-ee-mah" didn't help, and I think we added to her suffering for Jesus' sake by mostly stifling giggles as we tried to sing that with an acceptably straight face.

Dot is fine, thanks for asking.

 

[HerDotness]

Ok, anybody else here actually make up sins for Confession because it was time to go and you couldn't think of anything really wrong that you did...but you knew it wasn't OK to say "I have nothing to confess" -- so you just made up some innocuous ones.. then topped off the confession list with "I lied" to cover all the ones you just told in Confession?

No? Me neither.

Who, me?

 

[beerisit]

Bet you had noooo idea, Beerisit, how many sweet little Catholic girls were lusting after...your job. I sooooo wanted to be an altar girl, but fat chance back then.

Yep, I should have included the Latin Mass on my fond memories list. There was nothing like it for giving a feeling of awe and mystique, even when you were geeky enough as I was to learn what the Latin meant so as not to need your missal.

But I still laugh about how veeeery carefully the nun directing the girls' choir I was in for a while instructed us in Latin pronunciation for the hymn, "O Sanctissima" which went "O, Sanctissima. O, Piissima." That it was pronounced, "pee-ISS-ee-mah" didn't help, and I think we added to her suffering for Jesus' sake by mostly stifling giggles as we tried to sing that with an acceptably straight face.

Dot is fine, thanks for asking.

I am laughing out loud and have tears in my eyes. I kid you not.

 

[beerisit]

Ok, anybody else here actually make up sins for Confession because it was time to go and you couldn't think of anything really wrong that you did...but you knew it wasn't OK to say "I have nothing to confess" -- so you just made up some innocuous ones.. then topped off the confession list with "I lied" to cover all the ones you just told in Confession?

No? Me neither.

Only the bad kids did that.................I'm told

 

[HerDotness]

Only the bad kids did that.................I'm told

Oh, I have no doubt that you wouldn't know what doing that was like. Not an altar boy...no way.

:::: must put feet up, getting deep here ::::

 

[beerisit]

opcorn: anyone? It has been a blast from the past............as we used to say.

 

[4consideration]

The Angelus...I really loved hearing the bells ring it out...the feel of it, the vibrational quality was really something beautiful. (I went to a Catholic school grades 1-8. The church and bells were very near to the classrooms -- so you could really feel it -- and had to stop everything because it was really loud.)


Sometimes we went to Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve at St. Ben's Abbey. The sound and feel of the Gregorian chant by the Benedictine monks is a deeply moving and memorable experience.

 

[Kathryn]

I love Midnight Mass at Christmas and Easter Vigil too. The sounds, the scents, the sacredness - all so ancient and rich with meaning. Beautiful.

 

[HerDotness]

Now, if only all that beauty and sanctity weren't inextricably associated with doctrines that few people today think make any sense at all. And I'd better not get started, or y'all will see a rant the likes of which...well, both my parents would be churning up the soil atop their graves, they'd be spinning that hard.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In the New Testament, Paul speaks of "our father Isaac." Stephen refers to "our father Abraham." In fact, there are so many references to "fathers" (who are not biological fathers) in the NT that it's obvious the verse is not meant to be taken literally.

How so? Is it even obvious that Stephen or Paul were familiar with the quote? I think it's almost a given that they didn't read the Gospels in their current form, so I don't think it's reasonable to assume that they were familiar with the quote and decided to interpret it non-literally. I think it's more reasonable to assume that they didn't interpret it at all, since they probably didn't hear it.

And even if they were familiar with it, I don't see how you can necessarily assume that how Paul interpreted one of Jesus' sayings was necessarily how Jesus intended it. We're talking about two separate people.

Jesus is clearly chastising HYPOCRITICAL church leaders, and it is in this context that He says "Call no man Father." His words to the crowd and to His disciples are clearly intended to be heard, and to be provocative toward, the Pharisees, who were more concerned with titles and appearances than with the true meaning of humble service to the Lord and to His people.

So it was hyperbole? What other sayings of Jesus in the Gospels are hyperbole?

You say that Jesus was chastising hypocrites; okay, but it seems to me that Jesus was calling attention to the behaviours that he thought made them hypocrites. Wouldn't the same behaviours in others make them just as much hypocrites? ... and doesn't this just get us back to the idea that Jesus saying "don't do this" implies "don't do this"?

 

[beerisit]

The Angelus...I really loved hearing the bells ring it out...the feel of it, the vibrational quality was really something beautiful. (I went to a Catholic school grades 1-8. The church and bells were very near to the classrooms -- so you could really feel it -- and had to stop everything because it was really loud.)


Sometimes we went to Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve at St. Ben's Abbey. The sound and feel of the Gregorian chant by the Benedictine monks is a deeply moving and memorable experience.

We recently buried my mother, full Requiem Mass and when the smell of the incense hit me I was a child again, in the bowels of the basilica preparing the charcoal and incense, it was amazing.

 

[Kathryn]

So it was hyperbole? What other sayings of Jesus in the Gospels are hyperbole?

You say that Jesus was chastising hypocrites; okay, but it seems to me that Jesus was calling attention to the behaviours that he thought made them hypocrites. Wouldn't the same behaviours in others make them just as much hypocrites? ... and doesn't this just get us back to the idea that Jesus saying "don't do this" implies "don't do this"?

Just what exactly are you arguing? Here's what your original statement was:

I'm not saying it has to be interpreted literally, but if someone took the time to write it down, then presumably, they meant to communicate some sort of meaning with it... so what meaning was intended to be communicated?

The most obvious non-literal interpretation of that passage that makes sense to me would be something like "reject social hierarchies", which I think speaks against the Catholic Church, too.

I'm not saying it has to be interpreted literally

Me either.

but if someone took the time to write it down, then presumably, they meant to communicate some sort of meaning with it... so what meaning was intended to be communicated?

I told you what I thought Jesus meant to communicate - which was pretty much what you said, by the way. That it's not meant LITERALLY and that it is a rebuke to the hypocrites among the Pharisees (a religious hierarchy) - very similar to what you said, which was:

The most obvious non-literal interpretation of that passage that makes sense to me would be something like "reject social hierarchies", which I think speaks against the Catholic Church, too.

So please remind me - what are we disagreeing on? And don't forget - I'm not defending the Roman Catholic Church in this argument.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So please remind me - what are we disagreeing on? And don't forget - I'm not defending the Roman Catholic Church in this argument.

I can't say what your position is, but what I'm arguing is that even if we don't interpret the passage literally, we should interpret it assuming that the author meant to communicate some sort of meaning. I think that the standard Carholic dismissal of the passage (i.e. something close to "he didn't really mean it, because we call our literal fathers 'father' all the time and that's not bad") ignores any meaning in it, literal or not. Further, I think that any reasonable interptetation of the passage reflects badly on the Catholic Church.

Since you challenged me when I argued this, I assumed you disagreed, but if you don't, that's fine by me.

 

[Kathryn]

I can't say what your position is, but what I'm arguing is that even if we don't interpret the passage literally, we should interpret it assuming that the author meant to communicate some sort of meaning. I think that the standard Carholic dismissal of the passage (i.e. something close to "he didn't really mean it, because we call our literal fathers 'father' all the time and that's not bad") ignores any meaning in it, literal or not. Further, I think that any reasonable interptetation of the passage reflects badly on the Catholic Church.

Since you challenged me when I argued this, I assumed you disagreed, but if you don't, that's fine by me.

I really didn't challenge you - I was simply clarifying my position.

I believe that the wrong the Catholic Church is guilty of when skimming over this passage is not in calling people "Father," but in the attitude of superiority and the prideful pomp and circumstance that their system propagates within the church hierarchy.

Generally speaking (though I know there are exceptions) they do not consider the deeper meaning of the passage, and so they glibly and apparently unconsciously fall into the exact attitude and actions that Jesus was condemning.

 

[siamus]

...The priest being called Father...wasn't it said int he Bible, call no one but God the Father, Father.

Just want to know what you think about that, if that's ok ?

I think the verse you are quoting is directed against idolatry. No man or woman should be treated as God.

 

[Astounded]

I think the verse you are quoting is directed against idolatry. No man or woman should be treated as God.

There were no Catholic or Orthodox priests to be called 'Father" back when Jesus was preaching so the passage would mean nothing to people today or to the Jews in the audience..unless...it was a Jewish "father" that Jesus was talking about...which was a Jewish child's religion teacher. Each teacher offered their own interpretations of scripture which became confusing.

God is not a God of confusion. You have one master (teacher) and that is the Christ as per Jesus. The Catholic Church teaches Jesus' interpretation of scripture.

 

[M. J. Fernandes]

...
In fact, I think the idea of confession has opened up more since I got out of Catholicism so that any Catholic may regard confessing to God as conferring forgiveness rather than formally confessing to the priest (probably a result of the severe shortage of priests).

It has not changed. Mortal sins need to be confessed to a validly ordained priest.

 

[Estro Felino]

Was just wondering what caused people to follow the Catholic teachings, rather than any other of the numerous denominations.

Not trying to cause arguments or debates. Just gathering information.

maybe the dogmas?
Protestants say that works don't save us.

that's unacceptable