Why are so many christians closed-minded? (my rant)

[quick]

I am curious, where does the doctrine of pre-destination stem from? I mean I don't think it is from the Bible. I know that it finds its root in Calvanism, but I don't know how he reached the conclusions he did. If you by chance have some Biblical verses or evidence to back up pre-destination quick, I would very interested in seeing them.

Ephesians 1:3-14

3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment--to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
11In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

 

[LCMS Sprecher]

"5he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment--to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ."- quick (excerpt from Ephesians passage)

Thank you for the verses, they were much appreciated. The verses still hold though to God's grace and its free gift to us through Christ's death on the cross. The word "freely" in verse 6 essentially says that such a gift is denied from no-one, but is given to everyone. I think that pre-destination in these verses is refering to God's pre-determined plan for the salvation of humanity and how we are able to receive that gift of salvation through the fulfillment of that plan with Christ's death on the cross.

 

[rousley]

I really like this discussion, it's making a great point that I have tried to make to Christians as long as I can remember: Faith can be found more in the perpetual questions than in the answers because to challenge the beliefs of our faith and search beyond ourselves is to be true to our faith regardless of what we place our faith in. My website description of "God" at: www.unidiversal.com describes more about that. I am a nontraditional, UNdenomination Christian because I believe that "religion" promotes death whereas "faith" promotes the fullness of life.

 

[LCMS Sprecher]

""religion" promotes death whereas "faith" promotes the fullness of life."- rousley

A religion of law promotes death, however a religion of gospel promots Christ's love to us through His Son and how we gain everlasting life from that sacrifice. Furthermore, what is religion without faith?

 

[rousley]

"religion" promotes death whereas "faith" promotes the fullness of life."- rousley

A religion of law promotes death, however a religion of gospel promots Christ's love to us through His Son and how we gain everlasting life from that sacrifice. Furthermore, what is religion without faith? - LCMS Sprecher"

I believe you are making my point exactly. Religion is nothing without faith and faith can stand alone. Religion is people's attempt to cover our own sins through our own actions. If Genesis is true then Adam and Eve covered themselves with leaves, their actions to cover themselves were not acceptable, so God had to remove the leaves and cover them with animal skins (blood sacrifice). There is absolutely nothing we can do to earn our own reconciliation and as Abraham said, God proveded himself a sacrifice (his own sacrifice), to replace the law of death (religion to think that our actions cover sin). The thing that generally sets Christianity apart from other "religions" is it's most unique way of providing reconcilliation by the choice to believe alone ( http://www.unidiversal.com/reconciliation.html ), an uncomprehensible evidence of the central source and focus of existence ( http://www.unidiversal.com/god.html ).

The book of Romans in the New Testament is a good place to read about how we can not judge each other's faith and beliefs for ourselves because if we judge others faith and beliefs then we are condemning ourselves in the process (Romans 2:1 & others - http://www.unidiversal.com/warningyield.html ). This is also "suppose" to be evidence of a major difference between Christianity and dogmatic religions however, Christians have generally made this a mute point of our own Bible as well.

Thank you for your comment: "what is religion without faith?" It's a great springboard to make the point that Christians are here to put loving confidence in people of the world not to put guilt and condemnation on anyone (John 12:47). I hope I have taken your comments correctly

 

[Sunstone]

The notion that Christians are especially closed minded seems to fly in the face of a considerable body of evidence that closed mindedness is not at all limited to Christians, but pervades all religions and groups. Again, there are so many open minded Christians that I think this generalization fails on two grounds.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Non Christians can be JUST as intolerant as Christians. It's not the belief as much as it is the psyche of the person involved.

 

[Squirt]

I went to a christian chat room on MSN. We were discussing the validity of the scripures and was it faithfully preserved by the early Orthodox Church. I politely listened to this person's opinion but when I gave my views on the subject, the moderator kicked my out.

Christians shove their views down your throat but they don't want to hear what the other person have to say.

It's wrong!

Why are so many Christians closed-minded? Simple. They don't understand the message they feel compelled to defend. They're clear on parts of it, but miss the core doctrine.

 

[retrorich]

Why are so many christians closed-minded?

Because being open-minded might weaken the faith on which their religion depends.

 

[blueman]

I don't think it's isolated to the Christian faith. I've met and talked with people of many different belief systems that were just as passionate and opinionated regarding their convictions:jiggy:

 

[Mister_T]

Non Christians can be JUST as intolerant as Christians. It's not the belief as much as it is the psyche of the person involved.

I agree. Intolerance and closed minds are present in all religions and even the non-religions.

However, I will say that fundementalists attract a lot of negetive attention to themselves by the way they act.

 

[Ardent Listener]

I went to a christian chat room on MSN. We were discussing the validity of the scripures and was it faithfully preserved by the early Orthodox Church. I politely listened to this person's opinion but when I gave my views on the subject, the moderator kicked my out.

Christians shove their views down your throat but they don't want to hear what the other person have to say.

It's wrong!

Some do.

 

[BruceDLimber]

I agree. Intolerance and closed minds are present in all religions and even the non-religions.

I would point out that these are in NONE of the great religions as revealed, and to the extent that they are present later, this is solely due to the ungodliness and perversion of supposed adherents rather than to any inherent trait of the religion itself....

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Mister_T]

I would point out that these are in NONE of the great religions as revealed, and to the extent that they are present later, this is solely due to the ungodliness and perversion of supposed adherents rather than to any inherent trait of the religion itself....

Peace,

Bruce

Are you speaking about Baha'i

 

[nutshell]

I went to a christian chat room on MSN. We were discussing the validity of the scripures and was it faithfully preserved by the early Orthodox Church. I politely listened to this person's opinion but when I gave my views on the subject, the moderator kicked my out.

Christians shove their views down your throat but they don't want to hear what the other person have to say.

It's wrong!

The key is you went on somebody else's turf. You can't complain that you were bit by a dog if you put your hand in its hand.

The fact is, it was designated a christian forum. That implies to me that it is a place for christians to discuss the issues that concern them - not for others to debate them.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Are you speaking about Baha'i

No: I am speaking about ANY AND ALL of the great religions!

Regards,

Bruce

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

I concider this a very offensive way to see my brothers and my religion. Yes, there those misguided and thier piety takes over them, but if you read the Word of God, you will find that our god teaches love and freedom, not hatred and strict dogma.

 

[no intelectual]

I totally agree that the Christian church have created a host of do-gooders but I also found that It's because they are looking for a great reward from God for their good deeds. If you take away the fear of Heaven and Hell some church folks become monsters and very selfish.

I also agree that you can be good, charitable, loving, kind and moral without religious dogmas. I find that it is the literal fundamental Christian that doesn't understand the reality of life. The Protestant fundamentalists are very closed-minded and the Catholics are very open-minded.

I only agree with the top paragraph.

 

[psychoslice]

Yes the same happened to me, I was kicked out from a forum because of Christians not liking what I share, I think their childish and only cling to their beliefs for comfort, like a child with their security blanket.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes the same happened to me, I was kicked out from a forum because of Christians not liking what I share, I think their childish and only cling to their beliefs for comfort, like a child with their security blanket.

Well, it is a Christian forum. Were they saying they were open to criticism? Isn't it the same as the DIRs here? If you post anti-______ you get warned not to go there.