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Why are so many Christians unwilling to say they are Christians?

Riders

Well-Known Member
I've noticed something on these forums. Those who are followers of Jesus, who believe that he is the messiah who died for their sins, come up with all sorts of novel labels rather than simply identifying as Christian.

Can someone please explain to me why?

I think because this is a religious debate room not everyone states up front who they are and what religion they are in. It gives them more credit for what they are claiming at times. Christians are not the only ones who state up front what they stand for or what religious view they take.

I have had too many instances when people were defending Christianity and Christians but they were not Christian themselves, they confuse the debate and I have at times confronted them as Christians when they laughed and screamed at me "Hahahaha you're bigoted against Christians because I am not a Christian myself and you're attacking me ha!

I have had a few situations like that so I now stay clear of debates and conversations if I don't know exactly who I am speaking to, I get confused easily if you don't identify yourself, to me it's not fair.
 

Psalm23

Well-Known Member
I think because this is a religious debate room not everyone states up front who they are and what religion they are in. It gives them more credit for what they are claiming at times. Christians are not the only ones who state up front what they stand for or what religious view they take.

I have had too many instances when people were defending Christianity and Christians but they were not Christian themselves, they confuse the debate and I have at times confronted them as Christians when they laughed and screamed at me "Hahahaha you're bigoted against Christians because I am not a Christian myself and you're attacking me ha!

I have had a few situations like that so I now stay clear of debates and conversations if I don't know exactly who I am speaking to, I get confused easily if you don't identify yourself, to me it's not fair.

For a while I couldn't tell what religion or
non-religion someone believed in without looking at the profile or reading their posts. I found if I turn my phone horizontally that I can see what someone wrote as their religion by each post.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
My experience with the Christian conservatives that I personally know concerning feeding the poor:

"If they don't work, then they shouldn't eat."

My experience with the Christian conservatives that I personally know concerning healing the sick:

"If they can't afford health insurance, then that's not my problem."

My experience with the Christian conservatives that I know or encountered online concerning treating foreigners in their land:

"No illegal immigrants in our country!" "Illegal immigrants, go back to Mexico or to wherever else you come from!" "Speak English!" "Stop taking jobs away from Americans!" "Build the wall!" "Close our borders!" "Make America Great Again!" "Vote Trump 2024!"
????
I generally find Wiccans to be very judgmental? And love bashing Christians?

Maybe widen your circle of acquaintances?
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
????
I generally find Wiccans to be very judgmental? And love bashing Christians?

Maybe widen your circle of acquaintances?

I don't consider sharing my personal experiences with conservative Christians to be bashing them. It's just stating a fact that I've had negative experiences and interactions with the ones I know in real life and with most of the ones I've met online. For what it's worth, I have widened my circle of acquaintances and friends since I renounced my Christian faith about a year and a half ago. I've reached out to other Wiccans and Spiritualists online and have established friendships with a few of them. It's been a very positive experience.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
I've noticed something on these forums. Those who are followers of Jesus, who believe that he is the messiah who died for their sins, come up with all sorts of novel labels rather than simply identifying as Christian.

Can someone please explain to me why?
It's too generic.
 

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
????
I generally find Wiccans to be very judgmental? And love bashing Christians?

I've never experienced much of that. Maybe a few times. Maybe you think that them conveying negative experiences with Christians/Christianity as 'bashing'?
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
I have no problem saying the entire Creed. I don't see any difference between what Jesus said about himself and others said later.

You may be missing the point. The difference for Borg was between what really happened (as if someone had followed Jesus around with a movie camera) and what was said about him later, which was, well, not the literal truth, but important nevertheless.

About the Creed, it starts "I believe" and goes on to make various factual claims. I couldn't honestly say that I believed something that I didn't actually believe to be accurate. If you do believe that the Creed consists of statements of fact, then of course you will say it with a clear conscience.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
I share a significant amount of beliefs and culture with Christianity. It will always remain a precious part of me. But now… many religions and Orders are a part of me. And… while I am still always open to finding strength, power, wisdom and beauty in whichever religions or holy books they can be found, with what I have already learned from the spiritual-religious legacies of others I now understand that I have the ability- and the passion- to develop my own, with purpose.

And I have. This is only the beginning.

I feel nothing but love and respect for Christianity, and I continue to support their culture in my homeland. However… there is no denying that I am now something else entirely, no matter how parallel or intertwined our paths might become at times.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
I've noticed something on these forums. Those who are followers of Jesus, who believe that he is the messiah who died for their sins, come up with all sorts of novel labels rather than simply identifying as Christian.

Can someone please explain to me why?

Professor Henry Higgens (My Fair Lady) said "Why can't a woman be more like a man."

CHRISTIANS FOR SATAN:

What exactly are mainstream Christians today? First of all, you have to be a avid (no, make that rabbid) supporter of guns, and a supporter of the National Rifle Association if you want to be elected by the Religious Right. Guns are an instrument of killing, and very necessary in the unnecessary wars against Afghanistan, Iraq, (almost war in North Korea), and (almost war in Niger).

Modern Christians are warmongers and they believe in torture camps and they believe that God was kidding when He said "Thou shalt not kill."

Legitimate war hero, Senator John Kerry, was a supporter of guns, and even went hunting during his campaign for the presidency, yet, the lies from Veterans For Truth, coupled with negative campaigning by the National Rifle Association, kept Kerry from getting elected to the presidency. Since when are Christians for lies? Since now!!!!!

President W. Bush, in his various campaigns, beat out legitimate war heros Kerry and McClellan. McClellan was a triple amputee from his war injuries. He was missing both legs and an arm. Yet, W. Bush, who never saw battle, came off as a greater war hero. In fact, as Dan Rather pointed out, W. Bush was intentionally put in the Texas Air National Guard and trained to fly an obsolete plane that would never be used in war (in other words, he was in a draft dodger unit that was designed for kids of famous politicians and the rich, who were given special abilities to evade the draft). Rather was fired.

With so many Christians now following Satan's lies, Satan's cruelty (wars and torture camps, and ignoring the sick and hungry), and Satan's hatred of God's achievements (like his beautify nature...by polluting it and warming the Globe), that it is difficult to associate with any particular Christian group without being part of a Christian group that is actively trying to defy God.

How can a Christian support wars when he knows that God has commanded "thou shalt not kill?"

CHRISTIANITY, THE RELIGION OF HATRED:

Hate Gays, hate Jews, hate Moslems, and want to take legal rights from all of them. They want to teach their brand of religion in schools, and stop teaching science. They want to say all that they want to, then object in public religious forums that people of other religions are speaking. They want to take over the government, then object to objections. Should we remain silent if the Communists take over our government too?

Christianity can't even get along with itself. One denomination of Christian is always bickering with another. There are numerous versions of the bible, and each is worded slightly differently. Which is right and which is wrong?

CAN'T BE OWN ROLE MODELS:

The poster child for abstenence was the daughter of Sarah Palin (Republican governor of Alaska). She had three babies by three different men, out of wedlock, while continuing to be the poster child for abstenence. All she could say was "do as I say, not as I do."

I realize that all humans are imperfect. Yet, Palin's actions were unacceptible. She wasn't even trying to be good or be a good role model.

PROBLEMS OUT OF CONTROL:

After years of having Religious Right control of the United States (and, for that matter, control of the world by attacking peaceful nations), the world is a mess, filled with debt, pollution, starving, homeless, wars, and even torture camps. This is what the Religious Right did to the world.

Taxes were cut for the super-wealthy, with the promise of trickle-down. Yet, that never came to pass. Rather, tax savings paid to outsource factories abroad, giving just enough time for American workers to train their foreign counterparts in new state-of-the-art foreign factories, before being fired. American manufacturing locations (like Detroit and Ohio) are now like ghost towns, crime ridden, and filled with poor, hungry, and sick, and housing prices dropped like a rock.

WANT KEYS TO THE CAR, DADDY, THOUGH I KEEP DRIVING DRUNK AND WRECKING THE CAR:

We put the Religious Right in charge during the Reagan, Bush, W. Bush and Trump administrations, and the world is not a better place now. Yet, though they wrecked the world, they want to rule the world again (and again, and again, and again). It is a power-mad grab for glory, and it has nothing to do with the ability to lead or knowledge of running the world. It is ambition driven cruel leadership, that doesn't tend to the needs of hurricane victims, doesn't help the starving, and tries to block universal health care (called Obamacare). Remember, Jesus cured the sick, and he didn't charge money.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
Professor Henry Higgens (My Fair Lady) said "Why can't a woman be more like a man."

CHRISTIANS FOR SATAN:

What exactly are mainstream Christians today? First of all, you have to be a avid (no, make that rabbid) supporter of guns, and a supporter of the National Rifle Association if you want to be elected by the Religious Right. Guns are an instrument of killing, and very necessary in the unnecessary wars against Afghanistan, Iraq, (almost war in North Korea), and (almost war in Niger).

Modern Christians are warmongers and they believe in torture camps and they believe that God was kidding when He said "Thou shalt not kill."

Legitimate war hero, Senator John Kerry, was a supporter of guns, and even went hunting during his campaign for the presidency, yet, the lies from Veterans For Truth, coupled with negative campaigning by the National Rifle Association, kept Kerry from getting elected to the presidency. Since when are Christians for lies? Since now!!!!!

President W. Bush, in his various campaigns, beat out legitimate war heros Kerry and McClellan. McClellan was a triple amputee from his war injuries. He was missing both legs and an arm. Yet, W. Bush, who never saw battle, came off as a greater war hero. In fact, as Dan Rather pointed out, W. Bush was intentionally put in the Texas Air National Guard and trained to fly an obsolete plane that would never be used in war (in other words, he was in a draft dodger unit that was designed for kids of famous politicians and the rich, who were given special abilities to evade the draft). Rather was fired.

With so many Christians now following Satan's lies, Satan's cruelty (wars and torture camps, and ignoring the sick and hungry), and Satan's hatred of God's achievements (like his beautify nature...by polluting it and warming the Globe), that it is difficult to associate with any particular Christian group without being part of a Christian group that is actively trying to defy God.

How can a Christian support wars when he knows that God has commanded "thou shalt not kill?"

CHRISTIANITY, THE RELIGION OF HATRED:

Hate Gays, hate Jews, hate Moslems, and want to take legal rights from all of them. They want to teach their brand of religion in schools, and stop teaching science. They want to say all that they want to, then object in public religious forums that people of other religions are speaking. They want to take over the government, then object to objections. Should we remain silent if the Communists take over our government too?

Christianity can't even get along with itself. One denomination of Christian is always bickering with another. There are numerous versions of the bible, and each is worded slightly differently. Which is right and which is wrong?

CAN'T BE OWN ROLE MODELS:

The poster child for abstenence was the daughter of Sarah Palin (Republican governor of Alaska). She had three babies by three different men, out of wedlock, while continuing to be the poster child for abstenence. All she could say was "do as I say, not as I do."

I realize that all humans are imperfect. Yet, Palin's actions were unacceptible. She wasn't even trying to be good or be a good role model.

PROBLEMS OUT OF CONTROL:

After years of having Religious Right control of the United States (and, for that matter, control of the world by attacking peaceful nations), the world is a mess, filled with debt, pollution, starving, homeless, wars, and even torture camps. This is what the Religious Right did to the world.

Taxes were cut for the super-wealthy, with the promise of trickle-down. Yet, that never came to pass. Rather, tax savings paid to outsource factories abroad, giving just enough time for American workers to train their foreign counterparts in new state-of-the-art foreign factories, before being fired. American manufacturing locations (like Detroit and Ohio) are now like ghost towns, crime ridden, and filled with poor, hungry, and sick, and housing prices dropped like a rock.

WANT KEYS TO THE CAR, DADDY, THOUGH I KEEP DRIVING DRUNK AND WRECKING THE CAR:

We put the Religious Right in charge during the Reagan, Bush, W. Bush and Trump administrations, and the world is not a better place now. Yet, though they wrecked the world, they want to rule the world again (and again, and again, and again). It is a power-mad grab for glory, and it has nothing to do with the ability to lead or knowledge of running the world. It is ambition driven cruel leadership, that doesn't tend to the needs of hurricane victims, doesn't help the starving, and tries to block universal health care (called Obamacare). Remember, Jesus cured the sick, and he didn't charge money.

The more I see you speak about Christianity, the more you reveal your ignorance of it.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
I would tend to agree. Even though there are Christians in every sphere, the tendency is to lean Republican because of its platform.
I'm actually an independent. But in Florida, that basically means you can't vote until the elections. So, to have a greater voice in the system, I registered into a party and the Republican platform lines up a little better to my values than the Dem's platform.

that doesn't mean that one is bad and the other good but rather the compilation of all the information leans more in one direction for Christians.

Republican platform: war.

War: (thou shalt kill).

Is that really the platform of Christ?

How about the platform of greed? Take from the poor, give to the rich, ignore the homeless, starving, and sick? Fight against universal health care (aka Obamacare)?

Is that really the platform of Christ?

I see it differently. I think that Christians are following Satan, though they think that they are on the right path.

Remember, the road to heaven is a very narrow one, and very few will make it. When embarking on a trip to heaven, it isn't wise to go with a large group, because that group will never make it. If you go the way the group goes, you will never make it to heaven.

Reverend John Hagee said that we must pray to Jesus to win the war (that is, kill more effectively).

Despite the fact that Hagee has a great deal of religious education, we can't follow him to hell. We must read the bible(s) for ourselves, and make up our own minds and find our own paths to heaven.

We should recognize Satan when we see him. When we realize that no candidate will be elected unless they are approved by the National Rifle Association, that is a clue that you might be following Satan. When you realize that the pope is on the NRA's hate list, that is another clue that you are not following Christ.

People are, of course, free to choose political parties. But, they cannot assert, without an argument, that their political party is on the side of God.

It is the admix of religion and politics that won't work.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I don't consider sharing my personal experiences with conservative Christians to be bashing them. It's just stating a fact that I've had negative experiences and interactions with the ones I know in real life and with most of the ones I've met online. For what it's worth, I have widened my circle of acquaintances and friends since I renounced my Christian faith about a year and a half ago. I've reached out to other Wiccans and Spiritualists online and have established friendships with a few of them. It's been a very positive experience.

Maybe its the overcorrection of renouncing your Christian faith.

The reality is that Christians are very involved in feeding the hungry, helping the poor, receiving the stranger et al

Are Wiccans friendly?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I've never experienced much of that. Maybe a few times. Maybe you think that them conveying negative experiences with Christians/Christianity as 'bashing'?
I'm just saying that if Sgt. Pepper is the representation of Wiccans, then maybe she shouldn't point the finger?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Republican platform: war.

War: (thou shalt kill).

Is that really the platform of Christ?

How about the platform of greed? Take from the poor, give to the rich, ignore the homeless, starving, and sick? Fight against universal health care (aka Obamacare)?

Is that really the platform of Christ?

I see it differently. I think that Christians are following Satan, though they think that they are on the right path.

Remember, the road to heaven is a very narrow one, and very few will make it. When embarking on a trip to heaven, it isn't wise to go with a large group, because that group will never make it. If you go the way the group goes, you will never make it to heaven.

Reverend John Hagee said that we must pray to Jesus to win the war (that is, kill more effectively).

Despite the fact that Hagee has a great deal of religious education, we can't follow him to hell. We must read the bible(s) for ourselves, and make up our own minds and find our own paths to heaven.

We should recognize Satan when we see him. When we realize that no candidate will be elected unless they are approved by the National Rifle Association, that is a clue that you might be following Satan. When you realize that the pope is on the NRA's hate list, that is another clue that you are not following Christ.

People are, of course, free to choose political parties. But, they cannot assert, without an argument, that their political party is on the side of God.

It is the admix of religion and politics that won't work.
If we can get away from the political mantras and look at it with open eyes, you will find that the above really doesn't represent the platform.

Also, please note, I said there was good on both platforms but that the Republican platform leans more towards Christian values. And I never said that any political party is "on the side of God".

What areas would you like to look at?
 
Last edited:

syo

Well-Known Member
I've noticed something on these forums. Those who are followers of Jesus, who believe that he is the messiah who died for their sins, come up with all sorts of novel labels rather than simply identifying as Christian.

Can someone please explain to me why?
I use many words because I think they are important.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
You may be missing the point. The difference for Borg was between what really happened (as if someone had followed Jesus around with a movie camera) and what was said about him later, which was, well, not the literal truth, but important nevertheless.

According to Rudolph Bultmann, the father of demythologizing the Gospels, the historical man named 'Jesus' was an eschatological Jewish prophet whose original disciples(A.D. 30's) knew him only as such, and whom the post-apostolic (i.e. non-apostolic) Hellenistic church (late first century A.D.) deified as the Son of God: "Jesus proclaimed the Kingdom of God...,...the kerygma of the Hellenistic church proclaimed Jesus as the crucified and risen Christ".
Bultmann recognized the two predominating cultural influences which shaped each New Testament document: [a] the historical Jesus dressed in the mythical garb of the Gnostic "heavenly redeemer"
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Professor Henry Higgens (My Fair Lady) said "Why can't a woman be more like a man."

CHRISTIANS FOR SATAN:

What exactly are mainstream Christians today? First of all, you have to be a avid (no, make that rabbid) supporter of guns, and a supporter of the National Rifle Association if you want to be elected by the Religious Right. Guns are an instrument of killing, and very necessary in the unnecessary wars against Afghanistan, Iraq, (almost war in North Korea), and (almost war in Niger).

Modern Christians are warmongers and they believe in torture camps and they believe that God was kidding when He said "Thou shalt not kill."

Legitimate war hero, Senator John Kerry, was a supporter of guns, and even went hunting during his campaign for the presidency, yet, the lies from Veterans For Truth, coupled with negative campaigning by the National Rifle Association, kept Kerry from getting elected to the presidency. Since when are Christians for lies? Since now!!!!!

President W. Bush, in his various campaigns, beat out legitimate war heros Kerry and McClellan. McClellan was a triple amputee from his war injuries. He was missing both legs and an arm. Yet, W. Bush, who never saw battle, came off as a greater war hero. In fact, as Dan Rather pointed out, W. Bush was intentionally put in the Texas Air National Guard and trained to fly an obsolete plane that would never be used in war (in other words, he was in a draft dodger unit that was designed for kids of famous politicians and the rich, who were given special abilities to evade the draft). Rather was fired.

With so many Christians now following Satan's lies, Satan's cruelty (wars and torture camps, and ignoring the sick and hungry), and Satan's hatred of God's achievements (like his beautify nature...by polluting it and warming the Globe), that it is difficult to associate with any particular Christian group without being part of a Christian group that is actively trying to defy God.

How can a Christian support wars when he knows that God has commanded "thou shalt not kill?"

CHRISTIANITY, THE RELIGION OF HATRED:

Hate Gays, hate Jews, hate Moslems, and want to take legal rights from all of them. They want to teach their brand of religion in schools, and stop teaching science. They want to say all that they want to, then object in public religious forums that people of other religions are speaking. They want to take over the government, then object to objections. Should we remain silent if the Communists take over our government too?

Christianity can't even get along with itself. One denomination of Christian is always bickering with another. There are numerous versions of the bible, and each is worded slightly differently. Which is right and which is wrong?

CAN'T BE OWN ROLE MODELS:

The poster child for abstenence was the daughter of Sarah Palin (Republican governor of Alaska). She had three babies by three different men, out of wedlock, while continuing to be the poster child for abstenence. All she could say was "do as I say, not as I do."

I realize that all humans are imperfect. Yet, Palin's actions were unacceptible. She wasn't even trying to be good or be a good role model.

PROBLEMS OUT OF CONTROL:

After years of having Religious Right control of the United States (and, for that matter, control of the world by attacking peaceful nations), the world is a mess, filled with debt, pollution, starving, homeless, wars, and even torture camps. This is what the Religious Right did to the world.

Taxes were cut for the super-wealthy, with the promise of trickle-down. Yet, that never came to pass. Rather, tax savings paid to outsource factories abroad, giving just enough time for American workers to train their foreign counterparts in new state-of-the-art foreign factories, before being fired. American manufacturing locations (like Detroit and Ohio) are now like ghost towns, crime ridden, and filled with poor, hungry, and sick, and housing prices dropped like a rock.

WANT KEYS TO THE CAR, DADDY, THOUGH I KEEP DRIVING DRUNK AND WRECKING THE CAR:

We put the Religious Right in charge during the Reagan, Bush, W. Bush and Trump administrations, and the world is not a better place now. Yet, though they wrecked the world, they want to rule the world again (and again, and again, and again). It is a power-mad grab for glory, and it has nothing to do with the ability to lead or knowledge of running the world. It is ambition driven cruel leadership, that doesn't tend to the needs of hurricane victims, doesn't help the starving, and tries to block universal health care (called Obamacare). Remember, Jesus cured the sick, and he didn't charge money.
I would say that you don't have a clue about what the Gospel is.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Actually, my point is that Christians are ignorant of the teachings of God/Christ. For example, they make war, while God said "thou shalt not kill."
You mean like President Biden is with Ukraine? :)
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
The reality is that Christians are very involved in feeding the hungry, helping the poor, receiving the stranger et al

The reality is that there are also Christians who aren't involved in feeding the hungry, helping the poor, or receiving strangers. Just because there are Christians who do these things doesn't mean there aren't other Christians who don't. For the record, Jesus' parable of the sheep and the goats clearly demonstrates that fact (Matthew 25:31–46), so your objection to what I've said is rather ironic.

I'm just saying that if Sgt. Pepper is the representation of Wiccans, then maybe she shouldn't point the finger?

I won't be shamed by you because you don't like what I said about my negative reactions with some conservative Christians.
 
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