Flankerl
Well-Known Member
Its like that in all 1st world countries.
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Why are US laws unfair towards men when it comes to parenting?
- Thread starter Vendetta
- Start date
Its like that in all 1st world countries.
Mathematician
Reason, and reason again
Even worse, a lot of women can pull the whole "he abused X" meme. Not that it doesn't happen but it's a lie easily construed and there's rarely any serious actions taken against abusive women.
Which is why I sometimes have to salute sly men like this guy:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/...es/imagecache/750x970/documents/1voelkert.jpg
Which is why I sometimes have to salute sly men like this guy:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/...es/imagecache/750x970/documents/1voelkert.jpg
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Vendetta
"Oscar the grouch"
What he did was brilliant.
Vendetta
"Oscar the grouch"
You have a tendency to write short. What other countries have the same laws and prove how they're unfair to men.
Otherright
Otherright
Very much so. I can tell you though that the family court system in many places don't take those issues into consideration as much as you'd like to think they do. Unless the mother is seen as completely unfit, expect it to go that way. Statistics play are larger role in the decisions of judges than is appropriate.
It is more likely that a father will pay support for a child over the mother. The statistics on this from HLR are overwhelming. 93% vs a mere 23%. Also, dependent on whether there is an allegation of DV in the home, despite HLR's study that upwards of 60% of these cases are used as litigation tactics.
Psychologically, there is support that shows a father separated from his children will fair better than a woman. Regardless of the case, it is always the children who lose.
Vendetta
"Oscar the grouch"
I agree and as far as the psychological effect on women seperate from their kids yes, I am familiar with that to. But there is a difference between a man taking sole custody and a woman who is appointed visitation rights. If I have kids I would be dammed that they go with their mother if we have a falling out. I would want to know why
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
I have a tendency to write short because iam not sure that i can express myself with english good enough.
What countries. Basically all countries that we consider part of the 1st world. If you are a man and you married a woman thats a little bit weird things can get ugly if you try to divorce eachother. Here in germany there was something like this this year.
Even though the man won the trial his reputation is gone. He will always be seen as a rapist.
It is almost by definition impossible to have anything remotely resembling fair treatment to parental rights out of courts of law. They are simply not adequate forums for such a personal, context-bound matter. As long as any society decides to rely on lawyers and judges to decide those matters, it will only be harming itself.
Anyone who actually cares about the well-being of children and of their parents should avoid resorting to legal systems at all and instead work at the appropriate levels, which are those of the quality of life inside the parents' house(s) and with the extended family.
Actually, we ought to discourage people from having children so casually in the first place. Far too many people are simply not gifted with enough of an extended net of support for them having children to be a good idea.
Anyone who actually cares about the well-being of children and of their parents should avoid resorting to legal systems at all and instead work at the appropriate levels, which are those of the quality of life inside the parents' house(s) and with the extended family.
Actually, we ought to discourage people from having children so casually in the first place. Far too many people are simply not gifted with enough of an extended net of support for them having children to be a good idea.
Darius1121
Necromancer
I can give you a fair example from the child's point of view. This happened to me.
When I turned 3, my parents finalized a divorce.As U.S. army non-commisioned officer, my dad did not fight for custody, merely for visitation rights. Due to being active military, he did get an allowance for his schedule. However, my mother repeatedly denied him visitation during the first 13 years. She remarried to a man when I was 8 years old, who then went on to physically,mentally,emotionally, and sexually abuse me and my brother for 5 straight years. When my dad learned of this, he called my mom into court at his own expense, citing that my stepfather was endangering us. The judge, after reviewing all evidence (which included a physical examination and psychological exam on us kids which showed evidence of abuse) then ruled that my dad was unfit as a parent, doubled his child support payments, and limited his visitation rights to supervised only. My mom then continued to use both my brother and myself as weapons to hurt my dad until I finally reached 18. After my dad's death 8 years ago, mom went to court to eize all of his assets.What was found out was that my mom actually owed my dad 7000 dollars in child support from when I was 15 to when I reached 18, and that my mom had lost custody of us kids during this point. Once this was revealed, along with all of her illegal and questionable actions, she walked out of court without any fines or punishments of any kind. What this has taught me is that the legal system is not on the side of most fathers, and that as far as the child's wellfare is concerned, often there is nothing done here. Sure, if I had been killed, then they may had cared. Otherwise, I was only a case number, nothing more.
P.S: The stepfather (tried in Salt Lake county,Utah) was released by the judge in the criminal case my dad had filed against him, due to bringing his mormon bishop into court with him as a character reference. This, despite enough evidence to convict just about anyone. This taught me that me that the lds church does, at times, violate the part of the constitution that states clearly: "seperation of church and state." I'm welll aware that some people will likely post on how I should just forgive and forget, but to me there is no forgiveness for what he did on this side of the grave. He will go to hell, where the wieght of everything he has done will drag on him forever. There is no forgiveness without earning it (in my opinion,) and he will never earn it.
When I turned 3, my parents finalized a divorce.As U.S. army non-commisioned officer, my dad did not fight for custody, merely for visitation rights. Due to being active military, he did get an allowance for his schedule. However, my mother repeatedly denied him visitation during the first 13 years. She remarried to a man when I was 8 years old, who then went on to physically,mentally,emotionally, and sexually abuse me and my brother for 5 straight years. When my dad learned of this, he called my mom into court at his own expense, citing that my stepfather was endangering us. The judge, after reviewing all evidence (which included a physical examination and psychological exam on us kids which showed evidence of abuse) then ruled that my dad was unfit as a parent, doubled his child support payments, and limited his visitation rights to supervised only. My mom then continued to use both my brother and myself as weapons to hurt my dad until I finally reached 18. After my dad's death 8 years ago, mom went to court to eize all of his assets.What was found out was that my mom actually owed my dad 7000 dollars in child support from when I was 15 to when I reached 18, and that my mom had lost custody of us kids during this point. Once this was revealed, along with all of her illegal and questionable actions, she walked out of court without any fines or punishments of any kind. What this has taught me is that the legal system is not on the side of most fathers, and that as far as the child's wellfare is concerned, often there is nothing done here. Sure, if I had been killed, then they may had cared. Otherwise, I was only a case number, nothing more.
P.S: The stepfather (tried in Salt Lake county,Utah) was released by the judge in the criminal case my dad had filed against him, due to bringing his mormon bishop into court with him as a character reference. This, despite enough evidence to convict just about anyone. This taught me that me that the lds church does, at times, violate the part of the constitution that states clearly: "seperation of church and state." I'm welll aware that some people will likely post on how I should just forgive and forget, but to me there is no forgiveness for what he did on this side of the grave. He will go to hell, where the wieght of everything he has done will drag on him forever. There is no forgiveness without earning it (in my opinion,) and he will never earn it.
Vendetta
"Oscar the grouch"
Well it has nothing to do with english it has somethin to do with detailed explanation. I am an educated man and on that note I understand each so-called 1st world countries laws vary. Unless you are studying international law with emphasis on family simply saying all 1st world countries are thus and so, is nothig short than an assumption. For instance Candaian Family law (with respect to parental custody) may vary from Australian law
I recall an article by Phyllis Schlafly near Fathers Day about governments involvement in child custody. Didn't realize how much money was at stake for the state. That could be part of the problem.
The High Cost To Taxpayers Of Missing Dads
The High Cost To Taxpayers Of Missing Dads - Investors.com
The High Cost To Taxpayers Of Missing Dads
The High Cost To Taxpayers Of Missing Dads - Investors.com
McBell
Unbound
It is most interesting how that article directly points to the government as ruining the sanctity of marriage....
Vendetta
"Oscar the grouch"
Agreed.
Mercy Not Sacrifice
Well-Known Member
Stories such as these are why I really wonder whether it will ever be in my best interest to marry someday. Family courts, IMO, typically do not do what is in the best interests of the child. I am a big fan of 50/50 joint custody whenever it is reasonable; I have read stories and seen real-live examples of where it works. But to have the default position be to give the mother primary custody, and the father to provide child support, seems to me to reflect a day and age when mothers stayed at home and fathers worked for a living. If women and men are supposed to be equal in the eyes of the law, then they should be in family courts, too.
Quite frankly, I don't understand what the justification for child support is in 90% of divorce cases. You want to take the kids, then you need to assume responsibility for them. You want to separate from your spouse, then that includes any financial support as well. Now I certainly understand exceptions for cases of domestic violence or stay-at-home mothers. But these are exceptions, not the rule.
One last thing. Why don't courts start asking the kids themselves what their perspectives are regarding which parent they spend the rest of their childhood with? This doesn't have to be done in the open court; these proceedings could be done in a room away from the parents and their attorneys, with a couple other adults present for security reasons. The objective should be not just to listen to which parent they want to go to, but why: Dad, because he lets them eat whatever, as opposed to Mom's nutritious meals? Mom, because she lets them stay up late, as opposed to Dad's 10:00 lights-out rule? Reasons such as those could be used against their preferences. But if they make claims such as that Mom yells at us a lot for just about anything, or Dad hits us all the time, then that should definitely be taken into consideration.
Quite frankly, I don't understand what the justification for child support is in 90% of divorce cases. You want to take the kids, then you need to assume responsibility for them. You want to separate from your spouse, then that includes any financial support as well. Now I certainly understand exceptions for cases of domestic violence or stay-at-home mothers. But these are exceptions, not the rule.
One last thing. Why don't courts start asking the kids themselves what their perspectives are regarding which parent they spend the rest of their childhood with? This doesn't have to be done in the open court; these proceedings could be done in a room away from the parents and their attorneys, with a couple other adults present for security reasons. The objective should be not just to listen to which parent they want to go to, but why: Dad, because he lets them eat whatever, as opposed to Mom's nutritious meals? Mom, because she lets them stay up late, as opposed to Dad's 10:00 lights-out rule? Reasons such as those could be used against their preferences. But if they make claims such as that Mom yells at us a lot for just about anything, or Dad hits us all the time, then that should definitely be taken into consideration.
Songbird
She rules her life like a bird in flight
Well, look at it this way.
Most studies reveal that in two-income households, the mother usually still does the bulk of the child-rearing and house-care. The court prejudicially rules in favor of the mother based on the majority.
And by far, most parents who stay home with the kids are the mother - even in this day and age.
Most studies reveal that in two-income households, the mother usually still does the bulk of the child-rearing and house-care. The court prejudicially rules in favor of the mother based on the majority.
And by far, most parents who stay home with the kids are the mother - even in this day and age.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Yeah, but even when gender roles are reversed, courts favor the mother. Happened to a friend of mine.
Songbird
She rules her life like a bird in flight
Of course. That's what I mean about the court ruling in favor of the mother based on the majority.
Mathematician
Reason, and reason again
From my perspective, if my wife called for a divorce and for child support (assuming she won custody - I'd fight her to the grave), I would refuse to give her a dime and take up the legal ramifications instead.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
You'd rather go to prison than pay support?