Why are We Here?

[jeager106]

Why?
I dunno but perhaps in the hope that mankind will one day quit competing
with one another, co-operate, and some day explore the stars.

 

[Tiapan]

This life is our heaven, after being freed of the endlessly boring, hanging around for billions of years, as dust, gas and heat.
It is a pity we only have a couple of dozen years to enjoy and explore this heaven before we are condemned to return to the void.
Everyday is beautiful, do something good today and keep smiling.
Cheers

 

[psychoslice]

We are here to party baby, its either your in it or out of it.

 

[1robin]

He needed something for which he could decide our divine allegiance? How very odd.


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What? I do not understand what your driving at.

Regardless I will make a clarification. We needed something to make our decision upon. It is hard to choose anything without a brain, and it is hard to have a brain without a body.

We are given the ability to choose God or deny God. We get exactly what we choose. We either get God, everything he comes with, and eternity in heaven or if we are morally insane enough to throw all that away we get no God, nothing he comes with, and in my opinion we are eventually annihilated.

Oh, I think I figured out what your saying. I will assume I worded my post incorrectly. God by virtue of his love created us for the purpose of our living in perfect contentment with him forever. However because love can only exist with freewill he gave us the choice to choose him or deny him. Because he is just he gives us exactly what we chose. He gave us our lives, if we choose him we live those lives in perfect contentment after the resurrection, if we choose to deny him he takes back the life he gave us and we cease to exist. Where is the unjustness, where is the oddness?

 

[Clear]

Clear (post # 67) said regarding the early ex-hyle christian doctrine :

Spirit existed before birth in this early model
Just as matter, (From which God created Stars, and worlds, etc) always existed in this Judao-Christian Theology, spirits existed as well : ”... I saw a hundred thousand times a hundred thousand, ten million times ten million, an innumerable and uncountable (multitude) who stand before the glory of the Lord of the Spirits. (1st Enoch 40:1)

The prophet Enoch is commanded by the angel to “... write all the souls of men, whatever of them are not yet born, and their places, prepared for eternity. 5 For all souls are prepared for eternity, before the composition of the earth.” (2nd Enoch 23:4-5)

Just as matter has characteristics which are part of it’s nature, spirits or “self willed matter” (as the Pistis Sophia describes spirits) had characteristics which were part of it’s nature. Spirits were, at some level, cognizant and self-willed and capable of progression.

This ancient Judao-Christian belief is different than the later adoption of “magical creation” or “creation from nothing” which became popular among Jews and Christians. However, creation from a pre-existing source changes the conditions, the context and the degree of intuitiveness of models as to what God was doing in populating the earth with mankind.

An intuitive model regarding what God had planned for these spirits.

1) God, before creation of this earth is in the midst of unorganized matter, including self-willed spirits
2) these intelligent spirits are capable of progression
3) God may intervene in the development of these spirits or not intervene
4) Whether God intervenes or not, the spirits will change and progress
5) These spirits may progress toward civility and social unity and happiness and in good ways.
6) These spirits may progress toward anarchy and social disunity and unrest and evil ways.

If an existing God is full of both knowledge and love, will he intervene to their benefit or not?

7) If God plans to intervene and assist these in progressing in ways that are most beneficial and joyful to them, then what sort of knowledge is most important for immortal spirits to learn FIRST.

For example, does he teach them productive social interactions or moral law first, or does he first teach them chemistry, or botany, or construction, or economics (etc)?

I believe that if these spirits did not learn to live social and moral law first, then other types of knowledge were not as apt to result in social happiness, civility, unity and joy for them as a group. For example, what happens if they learned how to build weapons BEFORE learning patience enough not to use weapons upon simple frustrations.

9) If God has love and wants these self-willed spirits to be able to live with one another in unity and joy in a social “heaven” that will last, then these spirits must be taught principles underlying and upon which unity and joy are to be obtained and sustained.

10) If some self-willed spirits will NOT choose to live in a social group and obey laws upon which such a social unity and joy exist, then they must be excluded from those who chose to live moral and social laws which create and sustain unity and joy. Malignant and evil individuals would destroy the unity and happiness of such a social group if they were allowed to live among them.

11) There must be a sieving or separation of spirits into differing levels of willingness to live such laws or to live lower levels of moral and social laws, or perhaps into groups unwilling to live any level of social moral laws.

In this context of life as an experiential tutoring, I think the model of mortality as a school where eternal beings come to learn the difference between moral good and moral evil, and the disastrous consequences of evil, is a rational and logical model of what a God would try to teach mankind as basic principles before they went on to learn other principles. END QUOTE


Skwim (post #74) replied : “So there are a lot of spirits that need learnin', and to do so they have to spend time on Earth. That about it?” END QUOTE


This early model was not describing merely “learning”, but rather a process of never-ending intelligence and moral “progression”. While mortality may be an essential “kindergarten” of moral education and experience, it is still only a very basic start towards what makes up an advanced being of intelligence and moral civility that is capable of living in social joy and harmony with others and of sustaining that social harmony forever.

If there is a God who is intelligent and loving, then I think it is intuitive that he would want to help us achieve our own level of intelligence and joy and learn how to live socially in joy and harmony in eternity.

In any case, I wish readers good luck in coming to their own model regarding what ultimate purpose a God would have in creating and populating the earth.

Clear
φυφυειω

 

[FearGod]

I can see only to reasons: 1) For the fun of it. 2) We need its help.
Which of the two do you think god is aiming for?
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It's about achievements, There's one hadith which says that God made us to be with the free
will which will cause us to make some sins and we have to ask for forgiveness, the prophet
added that if humans won't make any sins then God will replace them by a new creation
that have the free will to make sins and to ask for forgiveness.

 

[Akivah]

Lack of evidence.


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That's not evidence of a lack. There could be shumans, rumans, and zumans elsewhere.

 

[Akivah]

And therein lies the crux of the whole question.......we exist because "God is love" and so he generously decided at some point in his infinite existence that he wanted to share life with other beings.

I believe that G-d has many attributes. I told Skwim that G-d created us due to the attribute of generosity. Love, generosity....similar in this context. I agree that G-d wants to grant existence to beings.

We exist, not because God created us individually, but because he created all living things to reproduce their kind without any intervention from him. We are designed to be self sustaining and self replicating on this planet.

G-d has a hand in everything, including each of us. Everything in Creation would cease if G-d ceases Creating.

The odds against us as individuals ever experiencing life, is monumental, considering the number of eggs our mothers were born with, and the number of sperm generated by our fathers.....just one of each made "us". There is no one like us. Not even identical twins are completely identical in personality.

The variability of life to our human senses is monumental. However, the odds of us experiencing life is 100% due to G-d.

Once we are here, we can either treasure life and look for ways to make it better, or whine about it and throw tantrums about everything that isn't right.

I agree.

 

[YmirGF]

Why did god create humans?

IF god is real, the only purpose that makes any sense, to me, is that he/she/it simply wanted companionship. Being alone, with the thoughts in your cosmic mind, for eternity, would likey cause a mental illness of cosmic proportions. Think of us as perhaps being a very creative antidote to that impeding insanity.

 

[Skwim]

Oh, I think I figured out what your saying. I will assume I worded my post incorrectly. God by virtue of his love created us for the purpose of our living in perfect contentment with him forever.
. . .where is the oddness?

The oddness: Why did god need (want) us to live in perfect contentment with him? This goes to the "why" of the matter. So far it's like creating X so that X benefits from Y, which begs why create X in the first place?


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[Skwim]

IF god is real, the only purpose that makes any sense, to me, is that he/she/it simply wanted companionship. Being alone, with the thoughts in your cosmic mind, for eternity, would likey cause a mental illness of cosmic proportions. Think of us as perhaps being a very creative antidote to that impeding insanity.

A reasonable reply. Thanks.


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[Skwim]

It's about achievements, There's one hadith which says that God made us to be with the free
will which will cause us to make some sins and we have to ask for forgiveness, the prophet
added that if humans won't make any sins then God will replace them by a new creation
that have the free will to make sins and to ask for forgiveness.

You do realize, don't you, that this doesn't address the "why," but the "what."


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[Skwim]

That's not evidence of a lack. There could be shumans, rumans, and zumans elsewhere.

Your "could" begs reasonability. Is it reasonable these creatures exist elsewhere?


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[1robin]

The oddness: Why did god need (want) us to live in perfect contentment with him? This goes to the "why" of the matter. So far it's like creating X so that X benefits from Y, which begs why create X in the first place?


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God does not need anything, nor did anything I said indicate he had any need for anything. As for what he wants, I am not sure that is the right word, and there is no reason why any finite human mind should know everything there is to know about the infinite mind of God. However I will give at least one possibility, love can only be expressed when more than one entity with freewill exists. That is another reason to think the Trinity is true. God creating a race of beings who can choose to exist with him in eternal contentment is not a need it is the natural expression of love. God lacks nothing but his love is actualized best in relationship to other beings, and love can only exist when both parties have a choice. I am really having trouble identifying what conflict you think is behind your argument. The only possibility is that you think what I said indicates God needed something, but that isn't the case.

 

[Skwim]

God does not need anything, nor did anything I said indicate he had any need for anything.

You said "God by virtue of his love created us for the purpose of our living in perfect contentment with him forever."[/quote]
You say the purpose he created us was so we would live in contentment with him forever. My question is why? It would be like breeding two dogs so their pups would eat dog food. But what would be gained by bringing dog food-eating pups into the world? Why did god want to create us in the first place? If he never created us there would be no reason to make it possible that we live in perfect contentment with him forever. So why bother with us at all?

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[1robin]

You said "God by virtue of his love created us for the purpose of our living in perfect contentment with him forever."

I assumed that your confusion was because I made some kind of error in my original post, so I clarified it. But it looks like my original was pretty close. So, one last attempt. First of all the words "want" or "need" does not appear in my statement. Second nothing in that statement indicated God was motivated by either. It says exactly what my clarification stated. That love's natural expression is relational.

You say the purpose he created us was so we would live in contentment with him forever. My question is why?

Because a think that experiences God's love is better than a thing that has never existed. Only an existing thing can derive the benefits of being loved. Don't worry, if God does exist and if you like not existing you will return to your preferred state shortly.

It would be like breeding two dogs so their pups would eat dog food. But what would be gained by bringing dog food-eating pups into the world? Why did god want to create us in the first place? If he never created us there would be no reason to make it possible that we live in perfect contentment with him forever. So why bother with us at all?

Oh come off it man. Eternal bliss with God and his love is in no way what so ever similar to eating dog food. If you do not like the fact that you exist and do not even think God exists then why don't you ask your parents the questions your asking me? On your worldview they are responsible for the hideous fact of your existence. I have said several times that the natural outworking of perfect love is to create creatures with freewill who can choose whether to experience that love for eternity or say no thanks and go right back to their beloved state of non-existence. I can not see the problem so I have no idea what solution to suggest.

Since I do not see anything that is in need of further explanation I am going to simply copy and paste excerpts from papers or books on the concept of God's nature in response to further questions like you asked here.

 

[FearGod]

You do realize, don't you, that this doesn't address the "why," but the "what."

The exact purpose of the creation is impossible to be known other than making guesses,
first we don't know what God is, what is his nature, how he thinks and how he makes
things to work according to his will.

 

[Akivah]

Your "could" begs reasonability. Is it reasonable these creatures exist elsewhere?


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You're the one that asked about their existence. I presume you had a basis for asking.

 

[Skwim]

I assumed that your confusion was because I made some kind of error in my original post, so I clarified it. But it looks like my original was pretty close. So, one last attempt. First of all the words "want" or "need" does not appear in my statement. Second nothing in that statement indicated God was motivated by either. It says exactly what my clarification stated. That love's natural expression is relational.[

So why do you think god does anything if it isn't motivated by wanting to? Think his doings just *pop* into existence?

Since I do not see anything that is in need of further explanation I am going to simply copy and paste excerpts from papers or books on the concept of God's nature in response to further questions like you asked here.

I understand your inability to grasp my point, but that's okay. Paste and post away.


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[Skwim]

The exact purpose of the creation is impossible to be known other than making guesses,
first we don't know what God is, what is his nature, how he thinks and how he makes
things to work according to his will.

Contrary to all those who do tell us such things. But thank you for your candor.


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