Why are we reading all the Gospels?

[wizanda]

I don't see any value in this "guess".

Well since no one else in thousands of years is sure who it is by, think that is the best guess I've seen so far.

 

[fantome profane]

Well since no one else in thousands of years is sure who it is by, think that is the best guess I've seen so far.

Why "guess" at all? If we don't know who wrote it why not just say it is anonymous?

 

[wizanda]

Why "guess" at all? If we don't know who wrote it why not just say it is anonymous?

Because in any legal case (first degree murder), you would first establish who and where the witnesses were, to verify the information they present.

 

[Quetzal]

Why "guess" at all? If we don't know who wrote it why not just say it is anonymous?

I think it's a fun discussion anyway. Certainly, it will be difficult (if not impossible) to point to someone with certainty, however, it doesn't mean the discussion shouldn't happen.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Why aren't we just reading one Gospel? What's the point of reading them all?

For one thing, each adds things the others don't have, and they contradict each other as well. But the real question is, why did they settle on just 4 gospels in the 4th Century, and burn the rest in an attempt to keep us from reading them as well?

 

[sojourner]

Why aren't we just reading one Gospel? What's the point of reading them all?

Because they each have a unique perspective on Jesus and a unique story to tell -- and because each is part of the preserved tradition of the church.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Because they each have a unique perspective on Jesus and a unique story to tell -- and because each is part of the preserved tradition of the church.

And all of those gospels that were burned were part of preserved traditions of other churches as well--and ironically they had their unique perspectives too. The problem is that no revealed text has any claim to divine authority other than ancient hearsay.

 

[sojourner]

And all of those gospels that were burned were part of preserved traditions of other churches as well--and ironically they had their unique perspectives too. The problem is that no revealed text has any claim to divine authority other than ancient hearsay.

1) I'm not aware of any gospels that were burned.
2) There are plenty of non-canonical documents -- including other gospels -- that are still preserved and read.
3) Who said anything about "divine authority???"

 

[atpollard]

And all of those gospels that were burned were part of preserved traditions of other churches as well--and ironically they had their unique perspectives too. The problem is that no revealed text has any claim to divine authority other than ancient hearsay.

Like what, a tape recording of God dictating the text?
What "claim to divine authority other than ancient hearsay" would one expect?

 

[atpollard]

It is a problem when they contradict. It is fine, for my own reading, because I'll just choose the version that suits my beliefs. But if someone presents conflicting narrative, and says it doesn't conflict, there is an issue.
One problem with your idea, is that, at that point, why even have Scripture; we can just make up our own beliefs from the 'choices' presented?

Are they contradictions of substance or based on point of view?
[The last contradiction that I investigated involved 1 angel vs 2 angels at the resurrection tomb ... it seemed explainable from the perspective of which woman reported the story and where they were standing. The woman furthest in could see the head and foot of the slab where Jesus was placed and both angels. The woman behind her could only see the door, part of the slab and one of the angels. Both stories may have accurately reported what the witness saw. It was just a matter of their point of perspective.]

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

1) I'm not aware of any gospels that were burned.
2) There are plenty of non-canonical documents -- including other gospels -- that are still preserved and read.
3) Who said anything about "divine authority???"

Mostly because they were destroyed following the acceptance, by the council (read committee) at Nicaea, of the texts that were deemed to be divinely inspired. But second hand references to other such gospels survived, while still others have since been found where they'd been hidden--most notably the Nag Hammadi Library in Egypt.

The real tragedy is that much of early Christianity was destroyed along with them, and we're only now finding out how different it was, including not valuing celibacy and establishing a less repressive attitude toward sex which Paul had established--along with Paul's melding of Jewish Christianity with pagan Mithraism. Pauline Christianity was the victor over other Christian sects at Nicaea. The sect that was established by Jesus brother, James, was essentially wiped out with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70CE.

Like what, a tape recording of God dictating the text?
What "claim to divine authority other than ancient hearsay" would one expect?

I don't think you want to go there. Do you have a tape recording of God dictating any of the "accepted" biblical texts? As for you second question, exactly.

 

[sojourner]

Mostly because they were destroyed following the acceptance, by the council (read committee) at Nicaea, of the texts that were deemed to be divinely inspired.

Conspiracy-theory claptrap. I bet some of them were hidden in the underground network of tunnels with the grey aliens from Uranus, right?

But second hand references to other such gospels survived, while still others have since been found where they'd been hidden--most notably the Nag Hammadi Library in Egypt.

"Hidden?" In a famous library?

We've known about references to non-extant sources for a long time. So what? Perhaps the "documents" in question were never written, but were oral accounts. Seems plausible in an age and place where such was the norm.

The real tragedy is that much of early Christianity was destroyed along with them, and we're only now finding out how different it was, including not valuing celibacy and establishing a less repressive attitude toward sex which Paul had established--along with Paul's melding of Jewish Christianity with pagan Mithraism.

We've always known about non-celibacy. People have known for quite some time that the sexual attitudes found in Paul's letters were likely not Paul, but later additions. Paul's theology is surprisingly Jewish -- that is, if you know anything about Jewish theology.

Nah. Not buying the drama. Sure, heresies were put down -- sometimes violently, but this is simply too much DaVinci Code theatrics you have here.

 

[Lyndon]

Try reading some early Christian history before spouting off!!

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Conspiracy-theory claptrap. I bet some of them were hidden in the underground network of tunnels with the grey aliens from Uranus, right?

"Hidden?" In a famous library?

We've known about references to non-extant sources for a long time. So what? Perhaps the "documents" in question were never written, but were oral accounts. Seems plausible in an age and place where such was the norm.

We've always known about non-celibacy. People have known for quite some time that the sexual attitudes found in Paul's letters were likely not Paul, but later additions. Paul's theology is surprisingly Jewish -- that is, if you know anything about Jewish theology.

Nah. Not buying the drama. Sure, heresies were put down -- sometimes violently, but this is simply too much DaVinci Code theatrics you have here.

Your irrational prejudice and glib attitude indicate the lack of sincerity in your response. Ergo, adios, and maybe you should take Lyndon's advice:----

Try reading some early Christian history before spouting off!!

 

[sojourner]

Your irrational prejudice and glib attitude indicate the lack of sincerity in your response.

My glib response is all the post merited, indicating, as it did, the lack of serious study on your part before posting.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

For starters in your study, Google the Nag Hammadi Library, which in the first place wasn't a library, but 12 codices buried in a sealed jar to escape their destruction. Then you might look up codices (a papyrus "book"), Gnostic (non-Pauline Christian sects), and the Library of Alexandria in Egypt, which was finally destroyed by Pope Theophilus not long ofter the Council of Nicaea.

Oh, and one more thing, think and study before you glibly accuse others of ignorance.

 

[atpollard]

I don't think you want to go there. Do you have a tape recording of God dictating any of the "accepted" biblical texts? As for you second question, exactly.

I was doing a bad job of communicating. Let me try again.
If one wanted to hunt for ghosts (whether they exist or not is immaterial), how would one go about detecting Ghosts?
Dusting for fingerprints is pointless, they don't have physical fingers.

In the same way, I am unsure what sort of 'evidence' one would look for to prove or disprove 'divine inspiration'?
Even assuming, just for the sake of argument, that you knew for certain that it was divinely inspired ... Say God whispered the text to YOU to write down, how would anyone go about proving it?
God fingerprints are as ethereal as ghost fingerprints.

So I was asking what sort of evidence you were searching for (not that I would provide it, it was just a philosophical curiosity).

 

[sojourner]

For starters in your study, Google the Nag Hammadi Library

"For starters, Google?" Really? The Nag Hammadi Library is well-known, and whether the texts were "hidden" certainly isn't a sure thing. We don't know why they were there or how. And for your info, any collection of books is, technically, a library (which is why it's called a Library).

In fact, we don't know that anything related to Nag Hammadi was "destroyed." Again: this is nothing but conspiracy-theory claptrap.

Oh, and one more thing, think and study before you glibly accuse others of ignorance.

Oh, and one more thing, I didn't accuse you of ignorance. I stated that your post indicated a lack of serious study on your part.