Why are women paid less than men, if they are? (reasons and solutions)

[Wirey]

Several years ago I was on the board of my church. I was also on the "ministerial search" committee because our minister retired.

I advocated strongly for hiring a female. Everyone was all about that. Until I explained that I knew that the pay disparity index was about .75-1 in the field and I assumed we would get a better candidate for the money if they had boobs.

Suddenly nobody liked that idea any more.
What's wrong with being practical about these things?
Tom

I use similar criteria when hiring strippers.

 

[Quetzal]

This is just speculation though.
I know a great many men & women who work for various companies.
None see the disparity you claim.
This of course proves nothing.

Right, I could be wrong and my data is probably dated. So you might have me.

Other factors....
- Women don't work the same distribution of jobs as men.
- Women tend to take more time away from careers than men.

This is my question, also for @lovesong , too. Wouldn't this kind of study to disprove my idea of the wage gap be really easy to do? I also see @lovesong listed some potential sources in another post, I will have to check that out, too! Maybe they beat me to the punch! Back to my question/theory...

I mean, it would be easy, right? Simply take occupations that employ men and women that use equal starting pay scales. (Nurses, doctors, various IT professionals are a few examples that stand out.) Monitor their pay over 2-5 years and take note any differences. With a large enough pool, wouldn't that debunk it entirely? Granted, this is sensitive information and would have to be given by the employee, not the company. I need to look into this more, I am just rambling thoughts at the moment.

 

[Wirey]

I know what we pay our engineers, and the ladies are actually slightly ahead, but we have some very good female engineers.

 

[Quetzal]

I know what we pay our engineers, and the ladies are actually slightly ahead, but we have some very good female engineers.

Stop providing evidence that can be used against me!

 

[Smart_Guy]

Because it is easy to get away with. The pay is supposedly confidential so even if I woman protested her pay against an equally talented male worker, the powers at be can easily justify it on the spot. "Oh, well he knows how to do x, while you don't." Further, women tend to be less confrontational in a patriarchal society so there is little concern for backlash simply because she doesn't have a dog in the fight. It is getting better, but it hasn't gone away.

It is really bad, awful and unjust if an employer exploits that. Shouldn't the govt. assign agents to do investigations for this? At least for govt. sector jobs. Then again, companies should have policies and investigators for this enforced on them by the govt. Even gators wearing vests deserve to have a job with an equal pay. Get it?

Um, sorry, This not a time for jokes.

 

[Quetzal]

At least for govt. sector jobs.

Previous government worker checking in! When I was there, there was something called a "desk audit". Basically, you fill out a form if you believe your duties and pay scale are offset. That is, you are not getting paid enough for the job duties you perform. Then a third party comes in and goes a check, adjusting where/if needed. So, in that regard, they were really good about it.

 

[columbus]

I know what we pay our engineers, and the ladies are actually slightly ahead,

Are you sure that they are "ladies"? High paid chicks in male dominated fields are often "womyn".
Tom

 

[Smart_Guy]

They aren't. This whole wage gap thing is just misconstrued statistics. Yes it is true that on average a woman makes 70 (71, 77, 78? It keeps changing) cents for ever dollar a man makes. ON AVERAGE. This does not mean for the same work, this means overall. Overall a woman makes 70% of what a man does. This makes perfect sense when you realize that not only do women take time off for maternity leave, become stay at home parents and whatnot more than men but also that women seem to be taking lesser-paying jobs than men. The highest paying fields like engineering and medicine are male-dominated while there seem to be a lot more women in things like the arts and education. This does not mean women are paid less than men for the same work at all. It is quite illegal to pay two employees in equal positions different salaries for characteristics like race or sex. Like, HIGHLY ILLEGAL. Companies would be in some really deep sh*t if they were doing this, but luckily they're not. Sure you could make some argument that none of this really maters since women are subjected to these lower-paying jobs by societal pressure and that they're beaten down by the mean ol' patriarchy blah blah blah, but in reality no woman is getting paid less for doing the exact same work as a man, it just doesn't work that way.

Hmm... not sure about the details, but generally this makes sense.

On a side note, don't you think women should have an advantage over men for maternity? I mean, they are mothers too, just like our mothers, and this is important. Not sure about other communities as in mine this is kinda covered since men are kinda enslaved to provide to the family (no worries, we men are fine with it), but in communities without such a thing, some mothers could be the only source of income to the family. I thing they should be gives special consideration.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Previous government worker checking in! When I was there, there was something called a "desk audit". Basically, you fill out a form if you believe your duties and pay scale are offset. That is, you are not getting paid enough for the job duties you perform. Then a third party comes in and goes a check, adjusting where/if needed. So, in that regard, they were really good about it.

Is this not still on?

 

[Quetzal]

Is this not still on?

Im assuming it is.

 

[columbus]

On a side note, don't you think women should have an advantage over men for maternity? I mean, they are mothers too, just like our mothers, and this is important.

I agree. One of the big problems I see with my society is that parenthood isn't valued. A mother (or father) who devotes their day to child rearing "doesn't work".
Tom

 

[Akivah]

The pay gap is driven by biology and will never disappear no matter what legislation is written or political correctness occurs. Nowadays, women with the same experience and qualifications as men earn the same amount doing the same work. The differences occur over time because women have different priorities than men. Women in general get more fulfilled from having babies and raising families than they do meeting corporate deadlines. Men in general get more fulfilled providing for their families than they do caring for babies. Thus women in general don't spend as much time doing paid work outside-the-home as men do. Thus their average pay as compared to men will always be lower.

 

[Wirey]

Are you sure that they are "ladies"? High paid chicks in male dominated fields are often "womyn".
Tom

I hid a camera in the ladies room. They're broads.

 

[columbus]

The pay gap is driven by biology and will never disappear no matter what legislation is written or political correctness occurs.

If we didn't value people so much based on net worth, income, and possessions this would be less of a problem.
Sorry if this sounds all Christian and everything. But I do live in Jesustan. It's the Christian people who decide what is important and what isn't.
Tom

 

[suncowiam]

I would have to agree that if I can hire people to do the same amount of work for less money, then I would hire those people regardless of sex, race or age.

I've read articles from females suggesting the myth has been debunked. One of which is a Harvard economy professor:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/karinag...uy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#4c743f7d4766

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/harvard-prof.-takes-down-gender-wage-gap-myth/article/2580405

 

[Tumah]

Its not a discrimination thing. Men and women actually do get paid the same. Its just that men get an additional bonus to their paycheck for being men. Women rarely be men, so they don't usually get this bonus. Perhaps a solution would be to encourage more women to be men at least in the workplace.


You can go ahead and hit the

button.

 

[Revoltingest]

Right, I could be wrong and my data is probably dated. So you might have me.


This is my question, also for @lovesong , too. Wouldn't this kind of study to disprove my idea of the wage gap be really easy to do? I also see @lovesong listed some potential sources in another post, I will have to check that out, too! Maybe they beat me to the punch! Back to my question/theory...

I mean, it would be easy, right? Simply take occupations that employ men and women that use equal starting pay scales. (Nurses, doctors, various IT professionals are a few examples that stand out.) Monitor their pay over 2-5 years and take note any differences. With a large enough pool, wouldn't that debunk it entirely? Granted, this is sensitive information and would have to be given by the employee, not the company. I need to look into this more, I am just rambling thoughts at the moment.

Rambling is good.

 

[Penumbra]

Hello guys.

I heard women are paid less that men. Is this true, and to what extent and level if it is? I'm not sure myself since where I live the society forces, encourages and expect men to be the source of income to the family.

Point of debate and discussion:
Any reasons and solution you have in mind for this?

My view just for you to know (I'm not debating it to prove it, I admit it could be wrong):
I suck socially, so all I can tell is that if a man and a woman do the same absolute everything and have the same qualifications (salaries here make use of previous experience certificates), they should be paid equally. But I honestly think women should get more allowances and breaks for pregnancy and all of its related stuff. The only reason I say this is because I want it for my sisters and mother if they work (and my mother did work as a kindergarten principal before).

What's your input in this?

The Washington Examiner, The Huffington Post, The National Review, and Forbes all feature articles (with studies) that disprove the wage gap. I'm truly not trying to cop out but it is midterm week. If this thread is still going in a few days I'll read more into all the listed studies.

Here's a very specific study showing evidence of a wage gap:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...bias-in-science-is-real-heres-why-it-matters/

They gave qualified application packages to scientists for a lab manager position. Although the applications were identical, some of them were given a female name and others a male name.

The scientists rated the male applications higher in competence and hire-ability, were more willing to mentor male applicants, and offered 15% higher starting salaries compared to the identical female applications.

Interestingly, both male and female scientists were guilty of this gender bias; they were both biased in favor of men. Probably subconsciously. So it wasn't like it was all the dudes' fault.

 

[columbus]

The scientists rated the male applications higher in competence and hire-ability, were more willing to mentor male applicants, and offered 15% higher starting salaries compared to the identical female applications.

Interestingly, both male and female scientists were guilty of this gender bias; they were both biased in favor of men.

I didn't read the studies because I doubt that my questions would be answered in them. If I am wrong, please correct me.
I can think of two obvious reasons for the disparity.
1) Affirmative Action.
Anybody who gets two comparable applications, one from a female and one from a male, can confidently assume one thing. The female applicant had affirmative action helping her get those credentials. The male applicant had the same affirmative action working against him.
So the reasonable conclusion is that the male applicant is the better applicant.

2) Stability.
If an employee decides to leave, taking all their training and experience with them, it costs their employer a good deal. If women are more likely to do that (because their spouse wants to move) than men are, the better choice is the male applicant. He is more likely to stay longer.

Do the studies you presented factor those in to their conclusions?
Tom

 

[Smart_Guy]

Here's a very specific study showing evidence of a wage gap:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...bias-in-science-is-real-heres-why-it-matters/

They gave qualified application packages to scientists for a lab manager position. Although the applications were identical, some of them were given a female name and others a male name.

The scientists rated the male applications higher in competence and hire-ability, were more willing to mentor male applicants, and offered 15% higher starting salaries compared to the identical female applications.

Interestingly, both male and female scientists were guilty of this gender bias; they were both biased in favor of men. Probably subconsciously. So it wasn't like it was all the dudes' fault.

That's it!

Job applications should not include names anymore, or genders if any do anyway, and only use applicant numbers. The applications then should be processed without knowing the holder, then salaries are decided and results distributed, even then before knowing the applicants.

I think that could help.