Why aren't there more Secular believers?

[RestlessSoul]

Influence is declining in the US, too. This is why different denominations are reaching out to each other in ways they haven't traditionally done.

Where a few decades ago, different denominations would have seen each other as adversaries, now they're partnering with each other out of necessity.

Presidential candidates of every persuasion make a point of being seen in church though, don’t they?

European politicians tend to steer clear of discussing their religious beliefs. When journalists brought the subject up with Tony Blair, his press secretary Alistair Campbell used to intervene with a terse “We don’t do God”

 

[ChristineM]

Interesting. I'll make it a point to visit a church on Sunday and present mine there. I'll let you know how it goes.


Yes, forcing a religious belief on others through politics is unacceptable, but I don't think we should be so quick to condemn of others because their religious principles informing their political values.

Or mosque or temple or whatever, it shouldn't be in politics.

Guiding ones own views is fine, redefining politics to suite ones own personal bent on religion, in my opinion is not fine.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Guiding ones own views is fine, redefining politics to suite ones own personal bent on religion, in my opinion is not fine.

People inject their own personal bent on politics whether it’s religious or secular. If they didn’t, there would be no need for parties or elections.

Let’s please not pretend religious principle is the only thing that creates a personal bent.

 

[Audie]

Just curious... Why aren't there more people who are believers in God, in whatever capacity, that are more Secular?
Even when I used to identify as a Christian, I considered myself Secular.

I know there are a lot of people who are "Nones," out there, but I don't think this position automatically qualifies one as believing in Secularism.
Just like there are many atheists out there that are Humanists, but not all atheists are Humanists.

I sort of believe that there are a lot more people out there who are Deist-type with their God beliefs, they just don't know it and have
probably never heard of it.

Any thoughts?

I'm not into believing the unbelievable.

 

[ChristineM]

People inject their own personal bent on politics whether it’s religious or secular. If they didn’t, there would be no need for parties or elections.

Yup, abortion bans, contraceptive bans, 10 commands forced on school children, christian or not, book bans.

There was never a greater need .

Let’s please not pretend religious principle is the only thing that creates a personal bent.

We are discussing religion/secularism, would you like me to talk about the green party?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Presidential candidates of every persuasion make a point of being seen in church though, don’t they?

Yes, but any church will do these days. It wasn't that long ago that American Protestants were freaking out at the idea of a Catholic president. They could afford to do that because Protestants were a significant power bloc all on their own.

These days, Biden's Catholicism (edit: or the Catholicism of most of the Supreme Court justices) isn't an issue and the political rhetoric around religion uses "big tent" terms like "Judeo-Christian"... because the Protestants who made a point of standing apart from Catholics even as late as the 1970s realize that they don't have enough power to do that any more. Their influence has shrunken to the point where they need to ally with former competitors to get the results they want.

 

[LuisDantas]

What is a "Secular believer?" What part of a secular worldview requires belief?

Pretty fair question.

I should have asked that myself, but I just assumed that the OP means people who are believers yet prefer

Just one?

The genocide of the Rohingya Muslims by the Buddhist Myanmar government comes immediately to mind.

That is a frequent example, along with the sarin gas attacks in Japan.

I think it deserves a closer look, personally.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't think that it is very reasonable to expect religion or pseudo-religion not to inform politics and political opinions - or even vice-versa.

At the end of the day, both are activities that ask people to express what they perceive as being desirable changes in the world around them.

We probably will be better off promoting - learning, even - to simply be more responsible about our beliefs and their consequences.

That said, it is certainly a red flag to see politicians talking about church-going as if it were some sort of measure of virtue.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I'm not into believing the unbelievable.

So everything you believe is true? Good luck with that…

 

[Spice]

Just curious... Why aren't there more people who are believers in God, in whatever capacity, that are more Secular?
Even when I used to identify as a Christian, I considered myself Secular.

IMV, When it comes to Christianity, there are two scriptures often taken in conflict.
Mark 12:17
Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they were amazed at him.
This generally leads to Secular thinking.
Romans 13:1,2
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
2 Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
This generally leads to religious political involvement.

So it's a matter of where they accept their biblical instruction/guidance.

 

[Eddi]

I believe in God and go to church but am a great believer in secularism

 

[SalixIncendium]

We are discussing religion/secularism, would you like me to talk about the green party?

If you want.

 

[endlessvoid2018]

Okay, sure. So religion and beliefs can influence one's beliefs in politics. I can understand that.

There is a difference I believe in simply believing in something, having it influence your opinions and thoughts, and openly forcing your beliefs onto others or proselytizing because of those "beliefs."

Like for example, Kandiss Taylor, who recently exclaimed that "we shouldn't be electing anyone in government...who isn't Christian."

And also, to quote her, "I don't have to give you 'freedom' of religion. Freedom of religion is there for us to worship Jesus. It's not for you to come force anything else upon me," she said.

Why? Because you're crazy? It's the kind of notion that so many Christians (not all), like this, feel entitled because they feel their beliefs are true, and for me makes embracing Secularism all the more logical.

 

[The Hammer]

Just curious... Why aren't there more people who are believers in God, in whatever capacity, that are more Secular?
Even when I used to identify as a Christian, I considered myself Secular.

I know there are a lot of people who are "Nones," out there, but I don't think this position automatically qualifies one as believing in Secularism.
Just like there are many atheists out there that are Humanists, but not all atheists are Humanists.

I sort of believe that there are a lot more people out there who are Deist-type with their God beliefs, they just don't know it and have
probably never heard of it.

Any thoughts?

This is the average line of thinking here. Secular religious. But the vocal minority of religious theocrats tends to drown out the sensible voices

 

[LuisDantas]

Okay, sure. So religion and beliefs can influence one's beliefs in politics. I can understand that.

There is a difference I believe in simply believing in something, having it influence your opinions and thoughts, and openly forcing your beliefs onto others or proselytizing because of those "beliefs."

Like for example, Kandiss Taylor, who recently exclaimed that "we shouldn't be electing anyone in government...who isn't Christian."

And also, to quote her, "I don't have to give you 'freedom' of religion. Freedom of religion is there for us to worship Jesus. It's not for you to come force anything else upon me," she said.

Why? Because you're crazy? It's the kind of notion that so many Christians (not all), like this, feel entitled because they feel their beliefs are true, and for me makes embracing Secularism all the more logical.

Seems to me that you are, indeed, advocating that the mainstrem beliefs ought to be less aggressive in their proselitism out of basic decency and respect for other people.

That is a reasonable stance, but I don't know that Christianity and Islam want to conform.

 

[endlessvoid2018]

Seems to me that you are, indeed, advocating that the mainstrem beliefs ought to be less aggressive in their proselitism out of basic decency and respect for other people.

That is a reasonable stance, but I don't know that Christianity and Islam want to conform.

Perhaps this is coming from the Humanist in me, but yes, this is where I totally agree.

 

[endlessvoid2018]

Also, another example, the whole 10 Commandments in schools.
So, what happens to kids or people who don't believe in this?
What if someone prays to Allah? Or is a Hindu?
What if a kid comes from a non-religious household?
They have to forcibly have it stuffed down their throats?

 

[Betho_br]

Hebreeuws Mattheüs​

וִיקָרְבֵם יֵשׁוּעַ אֵלָיו וַיֹּאמֶר לָהֶם דְּעוּ שֶׁנְּשִׂיאֵי הַגּוֹיִם רוֹדִים בָּהֶם וְגִדּוּלֵיהֶם מְבַקְּשִׁים לְנַפְשָׁם

לֹא כֵּן יִהְיֶה בֵּינֵיכֶם שֶׁהָרוֹצֶה לִהְיוֹת גָּדוֹל בֵּינֵיכֶם יְשָׁרֶת אֶתְכֶם

וַאֲשֶׁר יִרְצֶה בֵּינֵיכֶם לִהְיוֹת רִאשׁוֹן יִהְיֶה לָכֶם עֶבֶד


"And Yeshua drew them near to him and said to them, 'Know that the rulers of the nations dominate them, and their great ones seek their own gain.
It shall not be so among you, but whoever wants to be great among you shall serve you.
And whoever wants to be first among you shall be a slave to you."

 

[Spice]

Also, another example, the whole 10 Commandments in schools.
So, what happens to kids or people who don't believe in this?
What if someone prays to Allah? Or is a Hindu?
What if a kid comes from a non-religious household?
They have to forcibly have it stuffed down their throats?

I agree in the 10 Commandments, but I don't believe they belong in public buildings. If any positive, helpful mantra is established for public reminder, I'd go for:
Be Kind. Do Kind.
As for Christians, that should be a great compromise as Jesus himself reduced 9 of those 10 Commandments down to just one that means this.

 

[Audie]

So everything you believe is true? Good luck with that…

Whether that represents a try at mockery
or your reading comprehension hardly makes a difference.

You're the one who'll need good luck with, say,
believing the scam caller.