Mr Spinkles
Mr
Something else I forgot to say- I don't think atheism is inspiring and positive for everyone, but as for me I'm an atheist and I love life. Go science! 
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Why atheism is inspiring and positive
- Thread starter Alaric
- Start date
jonjohnrob11
Member
ceridwin018: i believe in God because he is Love. he is all good, all knowing, and all powerful. besides he is my creator.
i'll give u two proofs of his existence:
1. see ure watch: it has a watchmaker. see creation: it has a Creator.
2. only a Creator could create an infinite universe(there is always something beyond beyond. space can't end it has to be boundless. this is both logical and illogical which only a Creator could create. God is, was and will be. he created time. he always is, was and will be. he is the beginning and end or alpha omega. hard to grasp, right?
i'll give u two proofs of his existence:
1. see ure watch: it has a watchmaker. see creation: it has a Creator.
2. only a Creator could create an infinite universe(there is always something beyond beyond. space can't end it has to be boundless. this is both logical and illogical which only a Creator could create. God is, was and will be. he created time. he always is, was and will be. he is the beginning and end or alpha omega. hard to grasp, right?
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Ever heard of Occum's Razor? We have two competing theories for how the universe got here: 1. the universe has existed since the beginning of time 2. the universe was created by God, who has existed since the beginning of time
Both theories accept the notion that something doesn't have to be created- it can just exist since the beginning of time (after all, nothing had to create God, right?). The first theory, however, is simpler and therefore has a better probability of being correct.
Ceridwen018
Well-Known Member
jonjohnrob11,
Hard to grasp, indeed. I agree with what Mr. Spinkles said: you can accept that god had no creator, but not that the universe had no creator.
Nextly, infinity is not illogical. In fact it is very logical, which is why scientists lean towards it as a theory (technically it hasn't been proven, but then again, what has?). It is, however, unfathomable in the limited mind of a human, at least for now.
As far as the watch analogy goes, how about this:
The watch was created by a man, who was created by matter/atoms, whatever, which were instigated by quantum events, or whatever else, which were never instigated, because they have been running in a pattern forever.
Hard to grasp, indeed. I agree with what Mr. Spinkles said: you can accept that god had no creator, but not that the universe had no creator.
Nextly, infinity is not illogical. In fact it is very logical, which is why scientists lean towards it as a theory (technically it hasn't been proven, but then again, what has?). It is, however, unfathomable in the limited mind of a human, at least for now.
As far as the watch analogy goes, how about this:
The watch was created by a man, who was created by matter/atoms, whatever, which were instigated by quantum events, or whatever else, which were never instigated, because they have been running in a pattern forever.
Ceridwen018
Well-Known Member
Alaric, I commend you. This thread is fabulous.
Touching on the actual main topic, I would have to say that one would be pretty hard pressed to find an unhappy atheist in my opinion, given that in times of hardship and depression, the most common reaction is to seek refuge in some dogmatic religion.
I used to be extremely religious. When I turned to atheism however, I never went through a depressed period. I can relate to Alaric: I feel so free now. The emotional 'support' offered by religion now seems so encumbersome!
jonjohnrob11:
We do indeed need to be loved, but to turn to religion in times of lonliness proves nothing about the validity of god and religion. Imaginary friend extraordinaire.
When I look at creation, I do not see a 'creator' in the sense that you mean. I see scientific patterns. Why? Because scientific patterns actually can be seen!
Let's cut the crap and get down to business here jon.
My question to you is this: Why do you believe in god? I really do love this question. It is utterly complex in its simplicity.
Touching on the actual main topic, I would have to say that one would be pretty hard pressed to find an unhappy atheist in my opinion, given that in times of hardship and depression, the most common reaction is to seek refuge in some dogmatic religion.
I used to be extremely religious. When I turned to atheism however, I never went through a depressed period. I can relate to Alaric: I feel so free now. The emotional 'support' offered by religion now seems so encumbersome!
jonjohnrob11:
We do indeed need to be loved, but to turn to religion in times of lonliness proves nothing about the validity of god and religion. Imaginary friend extraordinaire.
When I look at creation, I do not see a 'creator' in the sense that you mean. I see scientific patterns. Why? Because scientific patterns actually can be seen!
Let's cut the crap and get down to business here jon.
My question to you is this: Why do you believe in god? I really do love this question. It is utterly complex in its simplicity.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Wow, Painted wolf, Alaric, engyo, etc- everyone'sl made great points.
I think the main difference between atheists and people of faith is this: atheists realize that our internal feelings and emotions are NOT valid tools for understanding the world outside ourselves.
Atheists are wary of their subjective feelings about things, and strive to escape those feelings to come to conclusions about the outer world objectively. An atheist recognizes the fact that just because something is true inside one's mind (i.e. dwarves live under my couch!), that doesn't make it true OUTSIDE one's limited perspective. That's why science tries to understand what's true or not true by objective analysis that other scientists can independently confirm. That's why it is possible for science in general to eventually agree on certain things (like Newton's laws) and build upon their knowledge; people of faith, however, can never come to a censensus about anything-which is why you see so many different sects of faith.
People of faith tend to use their feelings as an indicator of what's "true" outside their minds. So if Christians in medieval Europe have strong feelings of fear and paranoia, they treat that as evidence that old ladies are practicing dark magic- and must be burned. Or if people of faith encounter a remarkable coincidence, the fact that this coincidence fills them with amazement and gladness is proof that it was "more than just a coincidence".
painted wolf- just because we can't see water molecules doesn't mean their existence isn't derived from evidence we CAN see. That's why I think science is so great- by using evidence we can all see and agree upon, we can derive more complicated ideas that help explain our world. But few people believe water molecules exist simply because the idea fills them with emotional inspiration or subjective meaning in their lives. :roll:
I think the main difference between atheists and people of faith is this: atheists realize that our internal feelings and emotions are NOT valid tools for understanding the world outside ourselves.
Atheists are wary of their subjective feelings about things, and strive to escape those feelings to come to conclusions about the outer world objectively. An atheist recognizes the fact that just because something is true inside one's mind (i.e. dwarves live under my couch!), that doesn't make it true OUTSIDE one's limited perspective. That's why science tries to understand what's true or not true by objective analysis that other scientists can independently confirm. That's why it is possible for science in general to eventually agree on certain things (like Newton's laws) and build upon their knowledge; people of faith, however, can never come to a censensus about anything-which is why you see so many different sects of faith.
People of faith tend to use their feelings as an indicator of what's "true" outside their minds. So if Christians in medieval Europe have strong feelings of fear and paranoia, they treat that as evidence that old ladies are practicing dark magic- and must be burned. Or if people of faith encounter a remarkable coincidence, the fact that this coincidence fills them with amazement and gladness is proof that it was "more than just a coincidence".
painted wolf- just because we can't see water molecules doesn't mean their existence isn't derived from evidence we CAN see. That's why I think science is so great- by using evidence we can all see and agree upon, we can derive more complicated ideas that help explain our world. But few people believe water molecules exist simply because the idea fills them with emotional inspiration or subjective meaning in their lives. :roll:
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Something else I forgot to say- I don't think atheism is inspiring and positive for everyone, but as for me I'm an atheist and I love life. Go science!
jonjohnrob11
Member
ceridwin018: i believe in God because he is Love. he is all good, all knowing, and all powerful. besides he is my creator.
i'll give u two proofs of his existence:
1. see ure watch: it has a watchmaker. see creation: it has a Creator.
2. only a Creator could create an infinite universe(there is always something beyond beyond. space can't end it has to be boundless. this is both logical and illogical which only a Creator could create. God is, was and will be. he created time. he always is, was and will be. he is the beginning and end or alpha omega. hard to grasp, right?
i'll give u two proofs of his existence:
1. see ure watch: it has a watchmaker. see creation: it has a Creator.
2. only a Creator could create an infinite universe(there is always something beyond beyond. space can't end it has to be boundless. this is both logical and illogical which only a Creator could create. God is, was and will be. he created time. he always is, was and will be. he is the beginning and end or alpha omega. hard to grasp, right?
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Ever heard of Occum's Razor? We have two competing theories for how the universe got here: 1. the universe has existed since the beginning of time 2. the universe was created by God, who has existed since the beginning of time
Both theories accept the notion that something doesn't have to be created- it can just exist since the beginning of time (after all, nothing had to create God, right?). The first theory, however, is simpler and therefore has a better probability of being correct.
Ceridwen018
Well-Known Member
jonjohnrob11,
Hard to grasp, indeed. I agree with what Mr. Spinkles said: you can accept that god had no creator, but not that the universe had no creator.
Nextly, infinity is not illogical. In fact it is very logical, which is why scientists lean towards it as a theory (technically it hasn't been proven, but then again, what has?). It is, however, unfathomable in the limited mind of a human, at least for now.
As far as the watch analogy goes, how about this:
The watch was created by a man, who was created by matter/atoms, whatever, which were instigated by quantum events, or whatever else, which were never instigated, because they have been running in a pattern forever.
Hard to grasp, indeed. I agree with what Mr. Spinkles said: you can accept that god had no creator, but not that the universe had no creator.
Nextly, infinity is not illogical. In fact it is very logical, which is why scientists lean towards it as a theory (technically it hasn't been proven, but then again, what has?). It is, however, unfathomable in the limited mind of a human, at least for now.
As far as the watch analogy goes, how about this:
The watch was created by a man, who was created by matter/atoms, whatever, which were instigated by quantum events, or whatever else, which were never instigated, because they have been running in a pattern forever.