Why bother praying?

[Faint]

To those of you who pray, why do you pray and how do you rationalize this?

1) Do you think that your prayers are heard and considered?
2) Do you think your wishes hold any sway on a higher power (like a child asking it's father for a new bicycle--"please please please can I have this", for example)?
3) When you speak of praying for someone in a bad situation, like Jill Carroll, or random disaster victims, why would you think the higher power would allow your desires to influence it's plan for everything (assuming it has a plan). In other words, if your god did not intervene to prevent something like the Rape of Nanking, 9/11, or the Indonesian tsunami, why would that same god heed your request to help those in need?

 

[michel]

To those of you who pray, why do you pray and how do you rationalize this?

1) Do you think that your prayers are heard and considered?

Yes.

2) Do you think your wishes hold any sway on a higher power (like a child asking it's father for a new bicycle--"please please please can I have this", for example)?

I would never pray for anything for me, personally (except for wisdom, and help to be a better person)

3) When you speak of praying for someone in a bad situation, like Jill Carroll, or random disaster victims, why would you think the higher power would allow your desires to influence it's plan for everything (assuming it has a plan). In other words, if your god did not intervene to prevent something like the Rape of Nanking, 9/11, or the Indonesian tsunami, why would that same god heed your request to help those in need ?

Good point; the one question I cannot give a clear cut answer to. The way I look upon it is that there is nothing to be lost by asking God to 'help others' in a situation where they could do with help, if it is his will.

 

[jewscout]

do i think G-d hears my prayers?
I believe that He does.

Do i pray like a child sometimes, a child w/ the "gimme"s?
Yes sometimes i do

Do i think that G-d hears my prayers for others?
Yes i believe He does.

Can I explain why He permits terrible things to happen?
No, i can not.

but can you explain why sometimes when i pray for good things, good things happen?


the greatest pray is that my desire and His Will ultimately coincide.
now whether it is His Will that changes or my desire is another question all together...

 

[Faint]

but can you explain why sometimes when i pray for good things, good things happen?

Coincidence. Just like if you flip a coin and call heads or tails eventually you're going to be correct--but that doesn't mean you're psychic.

the greatest pray is that my desire and His Will ultimately coincide.
now whether it is His Will that changes or my desire is another question all together...

As you say, "ultimately coincide"--once again we're talking about coincidence, and you seem to recognize this. Basically, it sounds like you believe that ultimately your god is going to do what he wants to do. If it is ultimately your god's will that something will happen (or won't happen), you seem to have no say in the matter, so again, why bother praying? What do you get out of it?

 

[BucephalusBB]

but can you explain why sometimes when i pray for good things, good things happen?

Because those good things were going to happen anyway..

I think that if you pray and good things happen, and this would be in most cases...
people would have tested that, put some math on it and statistics and I would be praying now as well..

 

[jewscout]

Coincidence. Just like if you flip a coin and call heads or tails eventually you're going to be correct--but that doesn't mean you're psychic.

nor am i claiming to be a psychic. What i am saying is, that as a believer, i believe that G-d takes my prayers into consideration in His Divine plan.

As you say, "ultimately coincide"--once again we're talking about coincidence, and you seem to recognize this.

no i am not talking about coincidence i am talking about the ability for what i desire and what is G-d's will to coincide, that they will ultimately come together, which i don't see being an accident.

Basically, it sounds like you believe that ultimately your god is going to do what he wants to do. If it is ultimately your god's will that something will happen (or won't happen), you seem to have no say in the matter, so again, why bother praying? What do you get out of it?

ultimately it's not about getting on Santa's lap and asking for this or that but to connect w/ the Divine force in the Universe that is IMPO the objective of prayer.

 

[jewscout]

I think that if you pray and good things happen, and this would be in most cases...
people would have tested that, put some math on it and statistics and I would be praying now as well..

if i could quantify the power of G-d then He wouldn't be G-d

 

[Faint]

no i am not talking about coincidence i am talking about the ability for what i desire and what is G-d's will to coincide, that they will ultimately come together, which i don't see being an accident.

Yes, because things coinciding have nothing to do with coincidence.

But aside from English lessons, if you don't see your prayers being accepted as part of god's will as being accidental, doesn't that also imply that god would have already planned out your prayers for you (i.e. he designed your prayers, and possibly your thoughts in general), which would kind of negate that freewill thing, and thus mean that you are simply god's puppet?

 

[cardero]

Faint writes: 1) Do you think that your prayers are heard and considered?

"I hear them ALL and K(NOW) distinctively if they are within the BEing's PURPOSE. But certain entities are more worthy and capable of dealing directly with prayers."

Faint writes: 2) Do you think your wishes hold any sway on a higher power (like a child asking it's father for a new bicycle--"please please please can I have this", for example)?

“Do not BE ashamed or disappointed or regretful if your answers do not come out the way you have anticipated them. This is not the fault of GOD not caring or listening. This is the TRUTH that the prayer is not meant to BE, whether it is for you or someone else. There is a PURPOSE to ALL prayers and ALL thoughts. Mostly, the problem with the outcome of prayers is the inactivity of the person requesting the prayer. It ALL falls back on that old adage that "if you want something to happen, you may have to make it happen yourself." Prayers are not wishes; there is no such thing as Santa Claus or genies, either.”

Faint writes:3) When you speak of praying for someone in a bad situation, like Jill Carroll, or random disaster victims, why would you think the higher power would allow your desires to influence it's plan for everything (assuming it has a plan). In other words, if your god did not intervene to prevent something like the Rape of Nanking, 9/11, or the Indonesian tsunami, why would that same god heed your request to help those in need?

I do not believe in an intervening GOD


“If a person with a incurable disease does not recover, this does not mean prayers were ignored or unheeded. It just means it was within the PURPOSE of this BEing (or person) to pass on at this time.
This is when people seem to lose their faith in ME. And this is why I do not buy into faith. I received the prayer and have sent it to the proper channels. But if it is within the will of the BEing that these prayers go unfulfilled, it is only because it is not within the PURPOSE for this BEing to receive the effects of that particular prayer. It is not MY will that must BE done but the will and the PURPOSE of the individual BEing who has chosen a PURPOSE before incarnating into a physical existence that must BE done.”


HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: The Purpose Of Prayer
Pg: 380, 381

 

[jewscout]

if you don't see your prayers being accepted as part of god's will as being accidental, doesn't that also imply that god would have already planned out your prayers for you (i.e. he designed your prayers, and possibly your thoughts in general), which would kind of negate that freewill thing, and thus mean that you are simply god's puppet?

as my rabbi would say, depends on who you ask...there are some who argue for complete free will and those who go the other end of the spectrum.

the way i personally understand is this...
G-d has a Divine plan, but ultimately how it is attained can be altered by the actions of man. Hence, why in Jewish prophecy the road to the era of Moshiach has different avenues.
Man's free will is connected to our likeness of G-d, if He were to intervene directly then that would ultimately destroy us. Like any king, we can ask for aid or a request but ultimately it is His will that shall come about.

it's sort of like an ad-lib book. G-d knows the infinite number of possible answers and their ultimate outcome but allows us, as the ultimate connection between the Divine and the natural, to make the choice.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

To those of you who pray, why do you pray and how do you rationalize this? I pray/ meditate/ do spells (however you phrase it) because it helps me to have the courage to help others. I rationalize it because , to me, it doesn't really matter if anyone is listening. Praying, for all I know, could be simply talking to myself. But talking to myself helps me to articulate what I'm thinking about, and what my priorities should be.

1) Do you think that your prayers are heard and considered?

I think that they might be heard. Most of my prayers are more thoughts, so I'm not sure that those are considered- simply heard.

2) Do you think your wishes hold any sway on a higher power (like a child asking it's father for a new bicycle--"please please please can I have this", for example)?

Possibly. Whether it's self-talk or being heard by the gods, it changes me and how I affect and am affected by the world. For example, if I'm praying for mercy and compassion in the world, even if it doesn't hold sway with a higher power, it holds sway with me. I then go on to concentrate on what I can do to help spread mercy and compassion. So maybe when one is praying they are simply speaking to their own inner divinity?

3) When you speak of praying for someone in a bad situation, like Jill Carroll, or random disaster victims, why would you think the higher power would allow your desires to influence it's plan for everything (assuming it has a plan). In other words, if your god did not intervene to prevent something like the Rape of Nanking, 9/11, or the Indonesian tsunami, why would that same god heed your request to help those in need?

I think I've got an easer 'out' than most because I don't believe my gods are all-powerful. However, I 'felt' something happen on 9/11 and Katrina and the tsunami, before I watched or heard the news. It was one of those soul-consuming feelings like having just seen your dog run over, and I wasn't even able to articulate why I felt it until I knew what happened. I suppose my belief is that, if the world is wondrous enough to let me be tied in with what's happening with its life, that I might be able to petition to prevent such things from happening and that I might be able to help pick up the pieces after it's over.

The might is enough for me.

 

[Bishka]

To those of you who pray, why do you pray and how do you rationalize this?

I pray for my Heavenly Father to hear me, I know he already knows everything, but it is more of a personal and humbling experience.

1) Do you think that your prayers are heard and considered?

Heck yes!

2) Do you think your wishes hold any sway on a higher power (like a child asking it's father for a new bicycle--"please please please can I have this", for example)?

Not particularly in that way. If I ask, yes, my prayers will be answered, eventually. It may not be now, but it will be later. I believe that my Heavenly Father knows the wishes and hopes of my heart and knows that they are righteous and will grant them for me, in His own time.

3) When you speak of praying for someone in a bad situation, like Jill Carroll, or random disaster victims, why would you think the higher power would allow your desires to influence it's plan for everything (assuming it has a plan). In other words, if your god did not intervene to prevent something like the Rape of Nanking, 9/11, or the Indonesian tsunami, why would that same god heed your request to help those in need?

I don't know how to explain this one actually.

 

[Master Vigil]

To those of you who pray, why do you pray and how do you rationalize this?

I view prayer as a simple form of meditation. It is more for the person praying than anything.

1) Do you think that your prayers are heard and considered?

I don't believe in an anthropomorphic god, so no.

2) Do you think your wishes hold any sway on a higher power (like a child asking it's father for a new bicycle--"please please please can I have this", for example)?

According to my definition of Tao, yes my meditation can make a difference. By meditating, I change myself. By changing myself I can change those around me. By changing those around me, they can change the world.

3) When you speak of praying for someone in a bad situation, like Jill Carroll, or random disaster victims, why would you think the higher power would allow your desires to influence it's plan for everything (assuming it has a plan). In other words, if your god did not intervene to prevent something like the Rape of Nanking, 9/11, or the Indonesian tsunami, why would that same god heed your request to help those in need?

Since I don't pray for a god to help those in need, this question is irrelavent. However, as my answer of number 2 stated I can affect change enough to help those in need.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

For those interested, we talked about this recently http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25694&highlight=%22books%22+%22truck%22+%22prayer%22.

My posts:
#22
1) The purpose of Christian prayer is to unite the believer with the will and purposes of God. This is helpful because one is given the spiritual and emotional strength to endure whatever comes. Also, we believe that prayers affect outcomes. EDIT: The functional aspect of Christian prayer is faith. One also knows a prayer has been answered by faith.

Richard Foster has some excellent writings on prayer: Celebration of Discipline and Prayer.

2) The projection of stress outwardly towards God relieves anxiety. It is simply good mental practice and is physically healthy to release emotional and psychological pressures. Even if God doesn't exist, prayer as release is healthy.

------

#23

I pray daily, and all of my prayers have been answered. I pray in the name of Jesus Christ, and I am very careful in how I pray, approaching it as a powerful tool.

Answers vary, and sometimes it takes a while. Sometimes I get what I asked for in marvellous ways.

First of all, I pray to better know the Father and be obedient to the Gospel. Also, I regularly pray for things that I need and help in situations.

1) I asked the Lord to provide entrance and full scholarship to a university. I got it precisely at the right time.

2) I asked for a place to live. Someone called me and offered an apartment. When needs changed, I asked again and received precisely what I asked for.

3) I desperately needed cash, and $6k was waiting for me. Someone called me with the money. I didn't do anything but pray.

4) $3k worth of books was stolen out of my truck in Dec 2005. I was so devestated that I couldn't pray. The police officer who came found out that I was a Christian. He prayed with me. Everything was recovered the next day.

5) I prayed for my wife's work. Things got better.

6) Prayers for others are answered all the time.

------


Recently, I have been praying about my research and it is going faster and better than it has ever gone before. It's been so good that I'm telling my friends.

And I'm in seminary. LOL :biglaugh:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

To those of you who pray, why do you pray and how do you rationalize this?

1) Do you think that your prayers are heard and considered?

Only by God's mercy. By God's mercy and grace, He hears the prayers of all who have faith.

2) Do you think your wishes hold any sway on a higher power (like a child asking it's father for a new bicycle--"please please please can I have this", for example)?

No. From my perspective, nothing that we can do has any sway on God. Prayer is submission to God's perfect plan. We share our wants and desires with God to better ourselves and in submitting to God, we are changed. For our own health, we are to share our desires and wants with God.

3) When you speak of praying for someone in a bad situation, like Jill Carroll, or random disaster victims, why would you think the higher power would allow your desires to influence it's plan for everything (assuming it has a plan). In other words, if your god did not intervene to prevent something like the Rape of Nanking, 9/11, or the Indonesian tsunami, why would that same god heed your request to help those in need?

Well no god prevented these things from happening. From the Christian perspective, God has given humanity freewill, and the cost of freewill is humans can live righteous and good lives or they can live a life of evil. Whether we do good or evil, our actions affect the lives of other people. Freewill is beautiful because we can observe the great goodness of humanity and be greatly moved and touched by the awesome accomplishments of humanity when we provide for one another and express ourselves through art, music, academia, faith, hope, and religion. Evil makes the goodness of freewill shine all the brighter because in order to do good, even if for a moment, we supress evil and demonstrate that the heart of humanity is not made of selfishness.

It is by faith that we believe that God exists, and God, the one who is always good, who blessed humanity with life and freewill, is our great hope.

 

[dawny0826]

To those of you who pray, why do you pray and how do you rationalize this?

In the Bible, I'm instructed to pray ceaselessly...so there's really not much rationalizing to it for me...I just pray and focus on God as often as I can.

1) Do you think that your prayers are heard and considered?

Absolutely. Biblically, I'm promised that when I call...he answers.

2) Do you think your wishes hold any sway on a higher power (like a child asking it's father for a new bicycle--"please please please can I have this", for example)?

I don't know. Normally, when I pray it's for DEEPER issues. I normally don't even bother to pray about all the surface stuff. He knows my desires.

3) When you speak of praying for someone in a bad situation, like Jill Carroll, or random disaster victims, why would you think the higher power would allow your desires to influence it's plan for everything (assuming it has a plan). In other words, if your god did not intervene to prevent something like the Rape of Nanking, 9/11, or the Indonesian tsunami, why would that same god heed your request to help those in need

Faith. I have FAITH that God has his hands on situations that happen in this world. I know that Jill Carroll is in a terrible situation and that horrible events take place. I DO believe that with FAITH all things are possible but only if it's God's will. When Christians pray, we're supposed to pray positively but ultimately...we should desire that God's will be done in all situations. My plan for things doesn't hold a candle to His plan for things.

But I KNOW that with FAITH...my God CAN answer my ONE prayer for things very small or VERY large.

 

[Deut 13:1]

To those of you who pray, why do you pray and how do you rationalize this?

To those of you who enjoy breathing, why do you breath and how do you rationalize this?

 

[BucephalusBB]

To those of you who enjoy breathing, why do you breath and how do you rationalize this?

I breath because my body needs oxygen. Without it, it is incapable of functioning.
If I didn't need to breath, I most certainly wouldn't :sarcastic

 

[jewscout]

I breath because my body needs oxygen. Without it, it is incapable of functioning.
If I didn't need to breath, I most certainly wouldn't :sarcastic

for one who believes prayer is as necessary as oxygen.

for those who don't, there is no way i can rationalize it for you in a way that you will understand.

 

[BucephalusBB]

for one who believes prayer is as necessary as oxygen.

for those who don't, there is no way i can rationalize it for you in a way that you will understand.

Only in your mind that is. We both know that if you wouldn't pray for a day, nothing will happen, the same with the next day and the day beyond etc..

Without praying you will keep on living, you will keep on going and what happens after death will be just a s hard a question.

I don't mind if you want to compare such a thing, but there is no way it can be compared to air..
That's like comparing God to the wind because you both can't see it..