Why call the great mystery 'God'?

[Unfathomable Tao]

It seems that a lot of people have a sense of wonder and mystery from being alive. A sense of wonder and awe toward the universe. Let's call this the great mystery, and am I wrong to say many theists define this mystery as God?

My question is why call the mystery God? Lao-tzu did not believe we could speak of the great mystery in any truthful terms, and merely called it the Tao to call it 'something'.

The mystery might really exist, or it might be something of our perception, and actually void of any 'suchness'.

What makes me an atheist in spite of accepting the Tao, is I do not call the mystery a god. I do not believe the ideas of gods do the mystery justice. I believe the mystery and the universe are much greater than these concepts.

That is my question for you friends: what causes the mystery to be called god, and people to attach all these human terms and conceptions to the unfathomable?

 

[jonathan180iq]

It seems that a lot of people have a sense of wonder and mystery from being alive. A sense of wonder and awe toward the universe. Let's call this the great mystery, and am I wrong to say many theists define this mystery as God?

My question is why call the mystery God? Lao-tzu did not believe we could speak of the great mystery in any truthful terms, and merely called it the Tao to call it 'something'.

The mystery might really exist, or it might be something of our perception, and actually void of any 'suchness'.

What makes me an atheist in spite of accepting the Tao, is I do not call the mystery a god. I do not believe the ideas of gods do the mystery justice. I believe the mystery and the universe are much greater than these concepts.

That is my question for you friends: what causes the mystery to be called god, and people to attach all these human terms and conceptions to the unfathomable?

You've answered your own question in describing why you don't call it god. Others call it god for the reasons that you don't.

 

[Unfathomable Tao]

You've answered your own question in describing why you don't call it god. Others call it god for the reasons that you don't.

Yes and I'm curious about some of those reasons

 

[Tumah]

Tao is not G-d, its a creation.

 

[Unfathomable Tao]

Tao is not G-d, its a creation.

Well I would agree with you the Tao is not a deity, but neither is it a creation. The Tao te Ching attempts to refute any idea that might depict the Tao as either a divine personage, or the offspring of a divine personage.

 

[Tumah]

Well I would agree with you the Tao is not a deity, but neither is it a creation. The Tao te Ching attempts to refute any idea that might depict the Tao as either a divine personage, or the offspring of a divine personage.

So I guess now you know where we diverge.

 

[Unfathomable Tao]

So I guess now you know where we diverge.

Certainly, and that's alright. I would ask you though, in light of your posts- if you have a view about the Tao? If so, would you explain it more in detail to me? If you'd be so kind.

 

[Quintessence]

It seems that a lot of people have a sense of wonder and mystery from being alive. A sense of wonder and awe toward the universe. Let's call this the great mystery, and am I wrong to say many theists define this mystery as God?

For the theists who honor God (as in the Abrahamic one-god), quite possibly. I don't honor that god, and I do not see the gods I honor as being "the great mystery." This is likely in part because I do not recognize there as being some "great mystery" thing.

That is my question for you friends: what causes the mystery to be called god, and people to attach all these human terms and conceptions to the unfathomable?

Because it is unavoidable. You've been attaching human terms and conceptions to it too, with words like "Tao" and "unfathomable" and "great mystery." Human words, human concepts. Still human maps of territory, just like this word "god" that you do not use.

 

[Demonslayer]

My question is why call the mystery God?

In the vast majority of cases the answer is, because their parents told them to.

 

[ronandcarol]

Why call the great mystery 'God'?
I'm not sure who refers to any mystery as God, except maybe those who don;t know or understand the true God of the universe. In fact the Bible refers to mystery in 1 Cor., No, the wisdom we speak of is the mystery of God--his plan that was previously hidden, even though he made it for our ultimate glory before the world began. And also when talking about the parables of Jesus, I use parables to teach the others so that the Scriptures might be fulfilled: 'When they look, they won't really see. When they hear, they won't understand.' There is no mystery about God or His creation, He says that if we search with our whole hearts, we will find Him. And He will give us wisdom and understanding if we only ask! His mystery of our salvation has been revealed in his Words to us.

ronandcarol

 

[Kueid]

for easier mutual understanding

 

[Tumah]

Certainly, and that's alright. I would ask you though, in light of your posts- if you have a view about the Tao? If so, would you explain it more in detail to me? If you'd be so kind.

I only know a few things, I don't study these things. I understand that Tao is an understanding of the rules the universe runs on.

 

[George-ananda]

That is my question for you friends: what causes the mystery to be called god, and people to attach all these human terms and conceptions to the unfathomable?

I call it Brahman, it is a more sophisticated concept than the Abrahamic God that is somewhat anthropomorphized. I think for much of human history, where education and information for the average people was limited to say the least, an anthropomorphized God was the concept within reach of their understanding. I think we are entering the next stage in human religious thought evolution in which more sophisticated concepts will become the norm.

 

[Unfathomable Tao]

Why call the great mystery 'God'?
I'm not sure who refers to any mystery as God, except maybe those who don;t know or understand the true God of the universe. In fact the Bible refers to mystery in 1 Cor., No, the wisdom we speak of is the mystery of God--his plan that was previously hidden, even though he made it for our ultimate glory before the world began. And also when talking about the parables of Jesus, I use parables to teach the others so that the Scriptures might be fulfilled: 'When they look, they won't really see. When they hear, they won't understand.' There is no mystery about God or His creation, He says that if we search with our whole hearts, we will find Him. And He will give us wisdom and understanding if we only ask! His mystery of our salvation has been revealed in his Words to us.

ronandcarol

What makes the Bible an authority on this matter though? I'm not saying you don't have a right to believe it of course, but how would you convince anyone else?

 

[Unfathomable Tao]

for easier mutual understanding

That could be, but is it useful to do, considering the pros and cons? It seems like the more anthropomorphized the idea becomes, the more it suits specific people.

 

[Unfathomable Tao]

For the theists who honor God (as in the Abrahamic one-god), quite possibly. I don't honor that god, and I do not see the gods I honor as being "the great mystery." This is likely in part because I do not recognize there as being some "great mystery" thing.



Because it is unavoidable. You've been attaching human terms and conceptions to it too, with words like "Tao" and "unfathomable" and "great mystery." Human words, human concepts. Still human maps of territory, just like this word "god" that you do not use.

That's fair. I try to be as vague as I can. I try to use words that don't attach much. The word Tao though. I don't know if I want to debate about that one. As for your gods not being the 'great mystery'- yes I can understand that view. Do you believe they are higher lifeforms then?

 

[sun rise]

In the Bible, Exodus 3:14, God said "I am Who I am" when asked for His name.

But i a broader sense, often people at least in the West reduce God to an image of an old man floating on a cloud thanks to the Sistene Chapel ceiling. And then they react to that image either positively or negatively. So often but not always the word "God" is an intellectual trap.

There are concepts of God that don't fall into that trap, but, to me, whatever words work for someone is fine.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

A sense of wonder and awe toward the universe. Let's call this the great mystery...

How about just appreciating the sense of wonder and awe? Why the need to build a load of beliefs and metaphysics around it?

 

[Windwalker]

What makes me an atheist in spite of accepting the Tao, is I do not call the mystery a god. I do not believe the ideas of gods do the mystery justice. I believe the mystery and the universe are much greater than these concepts.

I notice you said "a god". I think when someone says God, it is not necessarily a deity they mean, but exactly what is meant by the Tao. Why use the word God to describe this? Because the word God represents the Absolute, the Ultimate, the Infinite. All those terms could be used as well. God is "Ultimate Good", God is Anglo word for Good.

That is my question for you friends: what causes the mystery to be called god, and people to attach all these human terms and conceptions to the unfathomable?

That people literalize and anthropomorphize God is simply because it is "above their heads", quite literally. That doesn't mean that is the only way to understand what God means.

 

[Quintessence]

That's fair. I try to be as vague as I can. I try to use words that don't attach much. The word Tao though. I don't know if I want to debate about that one.

It seems to me that the moment something is experienced or perceived by a human, it's already got something attached to it whether a symbol is used to describe it or not (words being a type of symbol). The symbols we call words are used primarily to communicate with other humans, and in that sense, I'm not sure deliberate vagueness serves well. This can depend on context, though, I suppose.

As for your gods not being the 'great mystery'- yes I can understand that view. Do you believe they are higher lifeforms then?

That's not how I would characterize things, no. A couple problems I have with this framing: (1) hierarchical thinking, and (2) biological thinking. For the second, many of the gods I honor are not biological organisms, so it would be inaccurate to call them "life forms." Storm Spirit is not a life form for example, it's an abiotic aspect of our world. Storm Spirit is "higher" only in the sense that its physical location is above terrestrial organisms like us. I'm not a fan of hierarchical thinking; I'm too much of an ecologist for that. The gods just are.