Why call the great mystery 'God'?

[Riverwolf]

While I am a theist, I don't really deify the "Great Mystery". The Gods I honor aren't (usually) that mysterious anymore; we by and large know the physical processes that produce the deified phenomena.

If there's any inspiration I've taken from D&D with regards to my views on the Great Mystery, I regard it more or less in the same way anyone who knows anything about Planescape should regard the Lady of Pain.

 

[Orbit]

Tao is not G-d, its a creation.

Tao is not a creation, it is a process.

 

[Tumah]

Tao is not a creation, it is a process.

Are there rules that govern how the process proceeds, or is it haphazard and illogical?

 

[Kueid]

That could be, but is it useful to do, considering the pros and cons?

Yes, it is a word like any other, it serves to conceive an idea and should be used in the appropriate context, I would say.

It seems like the more anthropomorphized the idea becomes, the more it suits specific people.

That's a problem concerning all words related to that idea.

 

[Orbit]

Are there rules that govern how the process proceeds, or is it haphazard and illogical?

"The way (tao) that can be spoken is not the true way (tao)"

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Are there rules that govern how the process proceeds, or is it haphazard and illogical?

The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao...

I would answer that we can't know; what we can name and understand as the process, etc., is not the process itself...we can think it logical or illogical, but our conception is nothing of the Tao

 

[Agondonter]

It seems that a lot of people have a sense of wonder and mystery from being alive. A sense of wonder and awe toward the universe. Let's call this the great mystery, and am I wrong to say many theists define this mystery as God?

My question is why call the mystery God?

Why not? Especially if the felt relationship with the Mystery seems to be between persons?

 

[Tumah]

"The way (tao) that can be spoken is not the true way (tao)"

The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao...

I would answer that we can't know; what we can name and understand as the process, etc., is not the process itself...we can think it logical or illogical, but our conception is nothing of the Tao

This sounds like a word game.
All you are saying, is that your perception of an apple is not the apple itself. Great. But there is still the recognition of an existence called an apple. And that apple was created.

 

[Riverwolf]

Keep in mind, guys, that the word 道 doesn't translate very well into English. "Way", as in "path" is just one of its many meanings.

 

[Orbit]

This sounds like a word game.
All you are saying, is that your perception of an apple is not the apple itself. Great. But there is still the recognition of an existence called an apple. And that apple was created.

I'm not talking about an object. I'm talking about discernment, and a way of living. Reading the Tao Te Ching might help.
It is here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/taote.htm

 

[Tumah]

I'm not talking about an object. I'm talking about discernment, and a way of living. Reading the Tao Te Ching might help.
It is here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/taote.htm

This way of living is built on the reflections of the rules that govern the universe. The first few chapters I see, are basically saying if there is a yin there must be a yang, and from the yang, you can determine the yin. This is a model.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That's a beautiful way of seeing how I view life. It's odd for me to say "I pray to life" as it makes Life a noun-object/person/or place even of devotion. Life is much more than a focal point of worship but we are within life and living is worship and prayer in and of itself. That said...

That is my question for you friends: what causes the mystery to be called god, and people to attach all these human terms and conceptions to the unfathomable?

Calling the mystery Tao, God, Buddha-nature (Buddha), Holy Spirit, Spirit, Universe, and so forth are all different means that maybe humans need to relate to something they are completely unfamiliar with. I think it's more of a convenience that people adopt or are indoctrinated in a personal way because it gives a means of conversation and worship with something they want to, not allowed to, or can't find the means to name.

While I understand that the mystery is not named and it makes it "greater" by that definition, in my point of view, there is nothing greater. So, however or whatever name we use to define the mystery isn't wrong. It's a human means of finding a connection with the unknown. So, in other words, naming doesn't mean we are defining something correctly-just for our purpose of relationship with the mystery not dictating what the mystery is.

That, and I've never been a "human terms are not appropriate" or "those are man's terms and they are limited" etc. My religion involves my art from creative expression, poetry, art, etc and using words, body language, etc are beautiful ways to depict life. When we say "human concepts are limited" we separate ourselves from the mystery (or god) rather than being part of god. How can you be a part of god when you make him your authority rather than your friend?

So, people do so for many reasons. It's easier to connect when there is a focal point of language. Some people like myself have more a creative way of connecting to the mystery by the words we use, the dances, and things we draw etc. While others just avoid naming the mystery all together. Which is odd, since we are a part of the mystery and yet we name ourselves and the environment around us.

Even the word Tao itself is attempting to name the mystery. I don't find that wrong. I'd just say every name has it's place but not so distinct to say it does define the mystery. If it does, it wouldn't be a mystery.

 

[Kueid]

it's only mutual understanding if the people in the dialogue are both aware of what the code word, means, //in this context. Otherwise, it;s just confusion. If you say 'god', in any context, /the word, the 'great mystery' is not what i think of. i don't even know what you mean by 'great mystery'.
/not sure i want to lol

I agree with you, that's why I tipped context in a reply before in this thread. Also, it wasn't me who used this term, "great mystery", but the OP

 

[Jumi]

It seems that a lot of people have a sense of wonder and mystery from being alive. A sense of wonder and awe toward the universe. Let's call this the great mystery, and am I wrong to say many theists define this mystery as God?

It is a wonder, every time someone speaks of god one must see what god they are talking about unless it's sure from context that they mean mystery and not a supernatural being. If they are mystically inclined the chance goes up, that instead of God they are talking Tao. It must be confusing, between a mystic and a regular theist.

The mystery might really exist, or it might be something of our perception, and actually void of any 'suchness'.

Mystery exists whether it exists or not. It's power is still there and because we can find that, existence is not a question.

What makes me an atheist in spite of accepting the Tao, is I do not call the mystery a god. I do not believe the ideas of gods do the mystery justice. I believe the mystery and the universe are much greater than these concepts.

Then we have much in common! Although I lost the term atheist as a self-descriptor along the way, I haven't been drawn to theism because of the "mystery" as you put it. Practically nothing separates me from an atheist but that.

 

[Desert Snake]

I agree with you, that's why I tipped context in a reply before in this thread. Also, it wasn't me who used this term, "great mystery", but the OP

You inferred that you knew what the OP means by ''great mystery''? /I don't

 

[Jumi]

How about just appreciating the sense of wonder and awe? Why the need to build a load of beliefs and metaphysics around it?

Right, and that's why it's better to not call it "god" because it brings all those things with it.

 

[Riverwolf]

This way of living is built on the reflections of the rules that govern the universe. The first few chapters I see, are basically saying if there is a yin there must be a yang, and from the yang, you can determine the yin. This is a model.

Can you understand the whole Torah and what it means with just the first few chapters?

 

[Tumah]

Can you understand the whole Torah and what it means with just the first few chapters?

There's a G-d. He tells people what to do. A lot of people mess up a lot. Some don't. The end.

 

[LuisDantas]

In the vast majority of cases the answer is, because their parents told them to.

Indeed. Many end up being told often that it is some sort of personal flaw not to.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I don't use the term God much anymore, but whether you call it Tao, or God, or The Great Mystery or whatever else, to me it is that which is beyond at the very least MY comprehension, and probably my perception except in the most rudimentary of ways, and perhaps beyond the ability of any human to perceive or comprehend.

This is an ontological claim: that there is more to the universe than just what we perceive and/or conceive of. While humans can perceive some of the contents and ordering of the universe, I am personally doubtful that we can perceive/conceive of it all; that which we do not currently, and may not ever be able to perceive/conceive, which may well have impact on that which we do perceive/conceive, is God, Tao, Great Mystery, or whatever other term you'd like to apply...