Why can Christians pick and choose which parts of the Bible to believe?

[texan1]

Thanks for the clarification Starfish. I threw that in there without thinking to make a point, but shouldn't have made that assumption.

 

[RedRain]

Oh, and by the way. I may have had some scholarly background in biblical studies, but I'm far from thinking I have all the answers. If you can show me that your interpretation makes better sense of the text in its context, I'll gladly admit my error. But I have to be honest with you. It seems like you hold to your interpretation because this revelator of yours holds that view, and if you were to admit error in this case, that might threaten your teacher's status. Believe me, I understand this. I'm sort of in that boat with respect to Jesus. I'm rather inclined to reject doctrines and ideas that go against Jesus' teachings, for example. If Jesus is wrong, my whole way of life is called into question, and I'm rather loath to give up on a way I've spent the last couple of decades cultivating. But at least I can be sure of my ground, my Rock. The same really can't be said of modern prophets who come along to straighten us all out.

Just in general, possibly because I did grew up believing it, it makes more sense to me that God would come quietly through one man in His second coming then with a huge crash and ending of all things known.

I guess I believe first and foremost that God is loving and very reasonable. Even if Swedenborg was a "false prophet" what he wrote is still somewhat incredible. He would have to have been more than mad to do what he did.

I don't think I would be Christian if I did not know of Swedenborg. Christians don't often seem merciful or reasonable enough to me. Anyway, I am straying off-topic. Thanks for your post.

 

[deelo505]

Minor correction: The LDS Church does not look down upon polygamy. It just does not practice it at this time, and tries to not be confused with those sects who do. It's a principle the Lord uses occasionally in history, for his own purposes. The LDS Church fully reveres Joseph Smith as a prophet of God.

so because people in the bible were involed with polygamy you believe God uses it in history?you beleive God thinks its ok?i havent read that its acceptable in bible.....

i have questions,this r things i have heard.
do momons believe the will become Gods?joseph smith is a direct desendent of christ..how would he know that dont you belive that ?the thousands of planets in the comos are ruled by different gods?are black people considered the ones who were udecisive(neutral)when they had to choose between ''brothers" jesus and lucifer and the ones who chose jesus would be light skinned(white and delight some i believe the book of mormon says)?Elohim came down to earth and had sex with the virgin mary?blood oaths?baptism of the dead those who were not mormons(im not sure if its restricted to ancestry)but thats imposing what you believe on people who are dead(the bible forbids contact with dead and isnt that a form of witchcraft?)...i mean what if they were jewish... i watched a documentry on that.one more arent there 5 pointed stars on the outside of your temple? this is just to get answers it is not a personal attack.

 

[GadFly]

In order to believe that the Bible is truly the word of God, it seems that you would have to believe that God can speak directly through humans. He spoke through the authors of the Bible who put the Holy Creator's words into this holy text.

Why then is it ok for mere humans to pick and choose which passages to believe in, which to take literally, which to disregard all together and how to interpret all facets of it? Most churches talk about a loving, forgiving God and talk about Jesus as the Prince of Peace. But when I read the Bible I can't seem to find this God in there. Much of what is in the Bible, especially the Old Testament, depicts an angry vengeful and frightening God (Leviticus for example). There are also laws outlined (in Dueteronomyfor example) that say women should be covered, they will be stoned to death in public for adultery, and are considered about as valuable as cattle. Most "Christians" I know certainly don't believe in these Taliban-like values.

Are there any Christians who might be able to explain how they reconcile this? Why you get to pick and choose only small sections of the Bible to believe in? And if you are free to do that, do you really believe it is the Divine Word? Do you think Christianity has actually evolved away from the Bible?

Texan1, you ask very difficult questions but these reflect what many believers and unbelievers alike observe to be true. Many Christians will not attempt to answer you because they feel they will compromise their belief that the Bible is the word of God. Others will interpret the none comments about the Bible's truthfulness in all cases as an admission to heresy.

The answer to these questions must be consider a matter of prospectiveness, which is why man from the very beginning was told of God to use correct reasoning to stay in fellowship and communion with God. Read the story of God and man in the Garden of Eden. It was a place of knowledge of Good and Evil. Man was placed in the Garden a perfect being in the image of God. Man disobeyed God and ate of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Before he ate, man was all good. After he ate, man still had the knowledge of Good but he now had Evil knowledge also, which was enough to break the fellowship and unity with God.

Everybody has their opinion on what the narrative of the Garden of Eden was. The early Christian church believed the narrative to have the meaning that the Apostle John attributed to it along with the same opinion of creation: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.The same was in the beginning with God.All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.In him was life; and the life was the light of men (John1:1-4).

The word was God is the point which is important. Jesus was pure reasoning and logic. There was no darkness in Christ. It was this Christ that Christians believe was perfect with no gaps in his understanding and thinking with which he thought the world into existence. The Bible does not teach the Bible was infallible neither does it teach the Bible is fallible. The Bible does teach that Jesus Christ is infallible. When Christians say there is no error in the word, they are talking about the Word, Jesus Christ. It should mean nothing to Christians if unbelievers find mistakes in the Bible. John spoke about the perfect Word long before the Bible was composed. This interpretation of creation goes well with my personal interpretation that God is pure logic and: That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world (Jn:1:9). This is the verse that proves babies are born with the eternal principles needed for future thinking and learning.

To find God it is not necessary to believe every word in the Bible. I believe the Bible is true but the early church not not have the complete Bible either, but it did did believe Jesus Christ was true. The New Testament was compiled long after the early church believed. You don't believe on the Bible to be saved. You believe in Christ.The Scriptures of the early church was what we call the Old Testament. Don't look for error in either testament when searching for God. Look for the Truth.

Error and unconciliatory facts is the story of the Law of Moses described in Leviticus and Deuteronomy and was given to hold the wild, polluted spirit and nature (illogic) of man in control until the True Light of the Word arrived. In the Old Testament religion was often as bad as the Teliban's values. After Christ came to correct man's thinking, real Christians no longer stoned women for committing adultery. Today the Prince of Peace is seen in the real followers of God. True Christians have not evolved away from God. The Word is still divine. You do not get to pick and choose. Believe the real Truth which is told in the Bible. The Bible is divine because it tells the story of the Divine.
I hope this explanation helps you understand the Truth.
GadFly

 

[Sola'lor]

so because people in the bible were involed with polygamy you believe God uses it in history?you beleive God thinks its ok?i havent read that its acceptable in bible.....

Where does it say in the Bible that polygamy is bad? Many righteous Prophets of the Bible had more than one wife. It was ok for them. We don't believe it's ok for us right now because we can get along just fine with monogamy.

i have questions,this r things i have heard. do momons believe the will become Gods?

We believe that all humanity is involved in something called eternal progress. We believe that our spirits existed before we came to this earth and that we lived with God. We believe all people are the litteral children of God. We believe that the children are the same species as their parents. Thus as literal children of God it is our potential to become like Him. That is the purpose behind everything. The Earth was created so we could gain bodies and become more like God. We believe we must follow God's commandments so we can become more perfect and become like Him. So it is LDS doctrine that it is all people's potential to become like God.

joseph smith is a direct desendent of christ..how would he know that dont you belive that?

I've never heard that and no we don't believe that.

the thousands of planets in the comos are ruled by different gods?

No. We believe that God is the ruler of ALL creations in this universe.

are black people considered the ones who were udecisive(neutral)when they had to choose between ''brothers" jesus and lucifer and the ones who chose jesus would be light skinned(white and delight some i believe the book of mormon says)?

Nope we don't believe this.

Elohim came down to earth and had sex with the virgin mary?

Nope we don't believe this. If God had sex with her how could she be a virgin?

blood oaths?

No blood oaths in the LDS church.

baptism of the dead those who were not mormons(im not sure if its restricted to ancestry)but thats imposing what you believe on people who are dead(the bible forbids contact with dead and isnt that a form of witchcraft?)...i mean what if they were jewish... i watched a documentry on that.

No we don't practice Baptism of the dead. We practice Baptism for the dead. There is a difference. We don't take dead bodies and baptise them. We take living people and and baptise them in behalf(by proxy) for the people who are dead. We believe that baptism is a neccessary ordinance for ALL people. Even Christ was baptized. We don't believe that when we baptize some one in bahalf of a dead person it doesn't force that dead person into our church. We believe that those who are dead may accept or reject the baptism that was done for them.

Where in the Bible does it forbid contact with the dead? What about people at funeral homes? Besides we don't actually touch any dead people in Baptisms for the dead.

one more arent there 5 pointed stars on the outside of your temple?

Yeah there are. So? There are five pointed stars in kindergarten class rooms. There are five pointed starts on the American flag. All they are there for is to represent the telestial kingdom which is equivilent in glory to the birghtness of stars as compared to the moon. It just so happens that five pointed stars are the standard symbol for stars. If the standrad symbol for stars was an eight pointed triangle then they would be eight pointed.

this is just to get answers it is not a personal attack.

No problem. If you need more details or have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask. There's plent of friendly LDS around here.

 

[texan1]

GadFly,

Thank you so much for taking the time to write a well thought out response. I may not share your strong faith, but all of this information is very helpful to me. I am so suprised by what I have learned on this forum!

 

[Starfish]

so because people in the bible were involed with polygamy you believe God uses it in history?you beleive God thinks its ok?i havent read that its acceptable in bible.....

i have questions,this r things i have heard.
do momons believe the will become Gods?joseph smith is a direct desendent of christ..how would he know that dont you belive that ?the thousands of planets in the comos are ruled by different gods?are black people considered the ones who were udecisive(neutral)when they had to choose between ''brothers" jesus and lucifer and the ones who chose jesus would be light skinned(white and delight some i believe the book of mormon says)?Elohim came down to earth and had sex with the virgin mary?blood oaths?baptism of the dead those who were not mormons(im not sure if its restricted to ancestry)but thats imposing what you believe on people who are dead(the bible forbids contact with dead and isnt that a form of witchcraft?)...i mean what if they were jewish... i watched a documentry on that.one more arent there 5 pointed stars on the outside of your temple? this is just to get answers it is not a personal attack.

Sola answered this very well in post 65.
I'd like to add, these myths stay alive because too many people go to non-LDS sources to learn about the LDS Church.

 

[Wandered Off]

I'm not convinced you can just go "pick and choose" what you believe in any case. Belief is more complicated than that.

 

[Katzpur]

so because people in the bible were involed with polygamy you believe God uses it in history?you beleive God thinks its ok?i havent read that its acceptable in bible.....

Abraham and many of the greatest Old Testament prophets had more than one wife. If this had been something God was opposed to, don't you think it's just a little bit odd that He never said so? God generally is pretty upfront about telling people if they're sinning, particularly if they're His prophets.

do momons believe the will become Gods?

We believe that all of God's children have been given the potential to become like Him someday. In fact, Jesus Christ commanded that we be perfect, just as our Father in Heaven is. Why would He have commanded us to do the impossible?

joseph smith is a direct desendent of christ..how would he know that dont you belive that ?

No, we don't believe this.

the thousands of planets in the comos are ruled by different gods?

No, we don't believe this.

are black people considered the ones who were udecisive(neutral)when they had to choose between ''brothers" jesus and lucifer and the ones who chose jesus would be light skinned(white and delight some i believe the book of mormon says)?

No, we don't believe this.

Elohim came down to earth and had sex with the virgin mary?

No, we don't believe this.

blood oaths?

No, we don't believe this.

baptism of the dead those who were not mormons(im not sure if its restricted to ancestry)but thats imposing what you believe on people who are dead(the bible forbids contact with dead and isnt that a form of witchcraft?)...

We perform proxy baptisms on behalf of our deceased ancestors. So did the Christians in Paul's time. I guess this is just one more of the things that are mentioned in the Bible you are unfamiliar with. And no, we aren't imposing our beliefs on anyone. No one is required to accept a proxy baptism that was done for him. No, it's not a form of witchcraft.

i watched a documentry on that.one more arent there 5 pointed stars on the outside of your temple?

Yes. Do you have a problem with stars?

this is just to get answers it is not a personal attack.

I'm sure it's not a personal attack, but I've got to tell you that you are grossly misinformed about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If you would like to get some valid information, there are quite a few knowledgeable members of the Church on RF. It would be nice, though, if you were to start a thread in the LDS DIR instead of hijacking someone else's thread on the Bible.

I have a couple of quick questions for you, deelo. Why do you think people tell such outlandish lies about people whose beliefs they know nothing about? What do you think of such people?

 

[deelo505]

Abraham and many of the greatest Old Testament prophets had more than one wife. If this had been something God was opposed to, don't you think it's just a little bit odd that He never said so? God generally is pretty upfront about telling people if they're sinning, particularly if they're His prophets.

We believe that all of God's children have been given the potential to become like Him someday. In fact, Jesus Christ commanded that we be perfect, just as our Father in Heaven is. Why would He have commanded us to do the impossible?

No, we don't believe this.

No, we don't believe this.

No, we don't believe this.

No, we don't believe this.

No, we don't believe this.

We perform proxy baptisms on behalf of our deceased ancestors. So did the Christians in Paul's time. I guess this is just one more of the things that are mentioned in the Bible you are unfamiliar with. And no, we aren't imposing our beliefs on anyone. No one is required to accept a proxy baptism that was done for him. No, it's not a form of witchcraft.

Yes. Do you have a problem with stars?

I'm sure it's not a personal attack, but I've got to tell you that you are grossly misinformed about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If you would like to get some valid information, there are quite a few knowledgeable members of the Church on RF. It would be nice, though, if you were to start a thread in the LDS DIR instead of hijacking someone else's thread on the Bible.

im a new member and i dont know much about how to do things on this website frankly i havent takn the time to learn either.sry that your angry about it...but itis too late now

I have a couple of quick questions for you, deelo. Why do you think people tell such outlandish lies about people whose beliefs they know nothing about? What do you think of such people?

idk.but can you tell me where there would have intepreted these ideas?like about blacke people i watched a pbsshow about mormons and it said something about black people i dnt remeber what exactly could you explain?

 

[Katzpur]

idk.but can you tell me where there would have intepreted these ideas?like about blacke people i watched a pbsshow about mormons and it said something about black people i dnt remeber what exactly could you explain?

Not on this thread. This thread is not about the LDS perspective on Blacks. If you want to start a new thread in the appropriate forum, we'll be happy to answer your questions. Click here and post your question or questions.

 

[DallasApple]

[QUOTEphesians 5:24
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
E][/QUOTE]

This alone just this one verse I have a HUGE issue with..Also i have "picked and chosen" not to believe that once I got married all of the sudden I had no "head"..that my husband was by "head" and my brain apparently evaporated upon I do and I was just a body from the neck down.

And if you take it litterally "everything" means EVERYTHING and and Im sorry not all men love thier wives as Christ loves the church and women in that kind of marriage basically woudl be living like a prisoner..

I CONFESS I pick and chose..I chose not to be a mindless weaker vessel 2nd class citizen.I chose to keep my 'head" attached to my neck even if I dont use it all that well sometimes..

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Starfish]

[QUOTEphesians 5:24
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
E]

This alone just this one verse I have a HUGE issue with..Also i have "picked and chosen" not to believe that once I got married all of the sudden I had no "head"..that my husband was by "head" and my brain apparently evaporated upon I do and I was just a body from the neck down.

And if you take it litterally "everything" means EVERYTHING and and Im sorry not all men love thier wives as Christ loves the church and women in that kind of marriage basically woudl be living like a prisoner..

I CONFESS I pick and chose..I chose not to be a mindless weaker vessel 2nd class citizen.I chose to keep my 'head" attached to my neck even if I dont use it all that well sometimes..

Blessings

Dallas

On the surface, this passage does appear demeaning to women. But that's when we can look closer at the meaning, the context, hidden messages. This is when we can pray and ask for clarification or understanding.
I see that scripture as a huge responsibility placed on husbands. They are under commandment to be righteous and to love their wife as Christ loved his church. God loves his daughters and will not abide them to be treated disrespectfully in any way. I also believe that no woman is bound to respect or honor an unrighteous husband. All this is something to be considered prayerfully.

 

[DallasApple]

But I'm talkign about what it says and taking it litterally...Can be dangerous..

And it doesnt "appear" demeaning..in fact it is demeaning..Just that one bit..

And I understand if everyone is doing there bit its a "perfect" plan..But as we all know..it doesnt always work out that way...

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Katzpur]

[QUOTEphesians 5:24
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
E]

This alone just this one verse I have a HUGE issue with..Also i have "picked and chosen" not to believe that once I got married all of the sudden I had no "head"..that my husband was by "head" and my brain apparently evaporated upon I do and I was just a body from the neck down.

And if you take it litterally "everything" means EVERYTHING and and Im sorry not all men love thier wives as Christ loves the church and women in that kind of marriage basically woudl be living like a prisoner..

I CONFESS I pick and chose..I chose not to be a mindless weaker vessel 2nd class citizen.I chose to keep my 'head" attached to my neck even if I dont use it all that well sometimes..

Blessings

Dallas[/quote]Hi, Dallas. I understand what you're saying but I think you're missing one important component. The scripture says that a woman should submit to her husband as the Church submits to Christ. The Church submits to Christ because He is righteous. In other words, Christ is the Head of the Church, and not the other way around. It doesn't really bother me that the Church considers my husband to be the head of our family, because it's only as long as he is being the kind of husband he promised to be when he married me that he has the right to be in this position. If he were the kind of man a lot of men are, I would be under no obligation to submit to him at all.

 

[DallasApple]

This alone just this one verse I have a HUGE issue with..Also i have "picked and chosen" not to believe that once I got married all of the sudden I had no "head"..that my husband was by "head" and my brain apparently evaporated upon I do and I was just a body from the neck down.

And if you take it litterally "everything" means EVERYTHING and and Im sorry not all men love thier wives as Christ loves the church and women in that kind of marriage basically woudl be living like a prisoner..

I CONFESS I pick and chose..I chose not to be a mindless weaker vessel 2nd class citizen.I chose to keep my 'head" attached to my neck even if I dont use it all that well sometimes..

Blessings

Dallas

Hi, Dallas. I understand what you're saying but I think you're missing one important component. The scripture says that a woman should submit to her husband as the Church submits to Christ. The Church submits to Christ because He is righteous. In other words, Christ is the Head of the Church, and not the other way around. It doesn't really bother me that the Church considers my husband to be the head of our family, because it's only as long as he is being the kind of husband he promised to be when he married me that he has the right to be in this position. If he were the kind of man a lot of men are, I would be under no obligation to submit to him at all.[/quote]

I understand Katz...

But the point is it doesnt say that...So WE have to decide...It doesnt say submit in everything "unless" your husband is a jerk..It says "everything" period..

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Katzpur]

I understand Katz...

But the point it it doesnt say that...So WE have to decide...It doesnt say submit in everything "unless" your husband is a jerk..It says "everything" period..

I guess that would be a problem for someone who believes the Bible is a letter-perfect dictation from God to whomever first wrote down the message, and that over the course of time, not one word was inadvertently omitted when the original was transcribed. Any time you the New Testament, there often appear to be gaps in the conversations between Jesus and His disciples. They'll be talking about one topic and then suddenly the next verse seems to be about something else entirely. You get the feeling that a sentence linking the two thoughts was left out. Just compare the four gospels. The wording of the exact same event varies between them. If we had only one of them instead of all four, we would very likely find exactly the same situation as we find with the verse in Ephesians.

 

[Starfish]

But the point is it doesnt say that...So WE have to decide...It doesnt say submit in everything "unless" your husband is a jerk..It says "everything" period..

Blessings

Dallas

The Bible is unclear. So pray about it. Ask for clarification. This is what the Holy Ghost is here for.

 

[DallasApple]

The Bible is unclear. So pray about it. Ask for clarification. This is what the Holy Ghost is here for.

No the Bible is clear..Your husband submits to God and the wife submits to the husband..HE (the husband ) is the "spirtual head"...I have zero authority to question what he claims is what God has spoken to him as far as "leading" me ..Unless its "blatant"..Like beating me or trying to get me to do drugs or adultery and so on ...The rest I have to "submit" to being he is the "head" ....It doesnt matter if I pray about it or not and conclude its wrong..ultimately according to the Bible I submit..

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Starfish]

At the risk of being off-topic, I get the feeling that many here resist prayer. Why? It's such an natural and logical source of help.

(OTOH, prayer is definately taught in the Bible, so it's not off-topic.)