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Why can't religion be more like an art?

amorphous_constellation

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
An expression of in-group/out-group dynamics? A collection of rituals to express significance for the things a society values? A comforting delusion to stave off the discomfort of fearing death? Religion is lots of things.
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All religion really represents is effort. If you're already there, then you have attained the goal of a religion, of the ritual, of discomfort, of whatever method it had you using. So I guess what I'm arguing is that individual expression toward this end is possibly more efficacious than the following of ossified rules, which often someone came up with long ago
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
ideogenous_mover said:
That's sort of a narrow look at it, that doesn't have to be the conclusion everyone draws. Are the remaining tribal people that western culture hasn't touched doing that in reaction to lightning? Do the extremely old religions of the world advocate it?
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didn't the Aztec make such practice?.....to a fault
 
MikeDwight

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
ideogenous_mover said:
I don't know if they are considered paleolithic or prehistoric
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Ya ya. Ya ya ya. OK... Thread... So you were in school with the Act of Supremacy with King Henry and he's like I never legally Got married, there's an English Church!, Then they were all Reformed people crushing the statues because they're fake Gods idols. Then the Spanish Armada. Then Anne Boleyne is King Henry's Protestant wife, who begat Queen Elizabeth. Spanish Armada. Golden Age. You're like, this is so creative...

Don't I hear Zoroastrian is the First "Religion" though. Look how slippery "Religion" is. That's like a group set of rules of international non-tribal recognition and source of conduct, morality, outlook. AntiDisestablishmentarianism, that's against the disestablishment of the Established Church of England, so every public British Subject can sing to the Queen on Sunday God Save the Queen, Mate, collect some taxes.

Make the Irish pay the Anglicans. That was a good time in history. I've been looking into that .
 
MikeDwight

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
Confederating Peace Church of Alabama
Invoking the Favor and Guidance of Almighty God
So look, I got this Huge parish, if this were New York I'd have, you know , a Million souls, its just me , I'm gonna need 1,000 guys that know what they're doing here. Had to get that out of the way. So ya we're Confederating in the Sovereign Character of the States invoking the favor and Guidance of Almighty God like the 1901 Alabama Constitution asks us to, just like the Confederate Constitution they made down there too.

Had to have head office, so you know, Orthodox miters all askew, blue-lights for Christmas epiphany. Bonnie good time, eh? League of Nations Confederating no Federal armies there, keeping the peace, Confederacies all over the place, invoking the Favor and Guidance of Almighty God. We got IFGoAG's see that's basically the meta-presbyters, you got the Presbyters, Deacons, down to the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, man I hate Greek so much.

So First priority of the mission, 1000 guys, 2nd, assassinate John Lennon, blame a shmuck, Peace out. We flash peace signs at everybody, and pray away the Eisenhowers. Cross our fingers.
 
amorphous_constellation

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
MikeDwight said:
Confederating Peace Church of Alabama
Invoking the Favor and Guidance of Almighty God
So look, I got this Huge parish, if this were New York I'd have, you know , a Million souls, its just me , I'm gonna need 1,000 guys that know what they're doing here. Had to get that out of the way. So ya we're Confederating in the Sovereign Character of the States invoking the favor and Guidance of Almighty God like the 1901 Alabama Constitution asks us to, just like the Confederate Constitution they made down there too.

Had to have head office, so you know, Orthodox miters all askew, blue-lights for Christmas epiphany. Bonnie good time, eh? League of Nations Confederating no Federal armies there, keeping the peace, Confederacies all over the place, invoking the Favor and Guidance of Almighty God. We got IFGoAG's see that's basically the meta-presbyters, you got the Presbyters, Deacons, down to the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, man I hate Greek so much.

So First priority of the mission, 1000 guys, 2nd, assassinate John Lennon, blame a shmuck, Peace out. We flash peace signs at everybody, and pray away the Eisenhowers. Cross our fingers.
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???

"However, down we sat, and I was helped to a dish of rabbit, with what I thought to be an abundant sauce of tomato. Taking a good mouthful, I felt as though I had taken liquid fire; the tomato was chile colorado, or red pepper, of the purest kind. It nearly killed me, and I saw Gomez's eyes twinkle, for he saw that his share of supper was increased.—I contented myself with bits of the meat, and an abundant supply of tortillas. Ord was better case-hardened, and stood it better. We staid at Gomez's that night, sleeping, as all did, on the ground, and the next morning we crossed the hill by the bridle-path to the old Mission of San Juan Bautista. The Mission was in a beautiful valley, very level, and bounded on all sides by hills. The plain was covered with wild-grasses and mustard, and had abundant water. Cattle and horses were seen in all directions, and it was manifest that the priests who first occupied the country were good judges of land. It was Sunday, and all the people, about, a hundred, had come to church from the country round about. Ord was somewhat of a Catholic, and entered the church with his clanking spars and kneeled down, attracting the attention of all, for he had on the uniform of an American officer. As soon as church was out, all rushed to the various sports. I saw the priest, with his gray robes tucked up, playing at billiards, others were cock fighting, and some at horse-racing. My horse had become lame, and I resolved to buy another." - from the memoirs of general sherman
 
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LuisDantas

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
ideogenous_mover said:
Very simply. Merely as a connection to a spirit world / god / gods
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Well, things just aren't quite that simple, except when they are.

"Religion" means so many things for so many people...

Suffice to say that for many people religion _is_ very much like an art, and that is a good thing. There are reasons why that is not the general case. One of those reasons is because not too many people fully embrace your definition. Another reason is because many people do.
 
amorphous_constellation

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
Audie said:
How do you define a connection to something that does not
exist?
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A human knows he has limits. He has not the ears of a dog, nor the eyes of an eagle. He smells an orange, and eats an apple. How does he know if his body is not distorting the truth, or if he is truly tasting or smelling everything that can truly be sensed as such from an orange? If we have bodily imposed limits, then we cannot often see if anything is flickering out there beyond them
 
MikeDwight

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
HAHAHA!
Well celtic and tengric still divides Europe today . There was a council of 100 sages, now there's a make-pretend sage you know how that goes.
 
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Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
ideogenous_mover said:
A human knows he has limits. He has not the ears of a dog, nor the eyes of an eagle. He smells an orange, and eats an apple. How does he know if his body is not distorting the truth, or if he is truly tasting or smelling everything that can truly be sensed as such from an orange? If we have bodily imposed limits, then we cannot often see if anything is flickering out there beyond them
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So how do you define a connection to something that does not exist?
 
Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
ideogenous_mover said:
That's ultimately a question for another thread, create it if you want and I'll reply more to that specifically. I don't want to derail this thread much more
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No, it is a question to which you might like to just say you have
no answer. because you cannot possibly do it here or anywhere else.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
ideogenous_mover said:
All religion really represents is effort.
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Well, no. Religion is not just "effort."


If you're already there, then you have attained the goal of a religion, of the ritual, of discomfort, of whatever method it had you using. So I guess what I'm arguing is that individual expression toward this end is possibly more efficacious than the following of ossified rules, which often someone came up with long ago
Click to expand...
I'm not a fan of ossified rules either; I just also see no need to label one's own individual expression as a "religion."
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
ideogenous_mover said:
Whether through the following of rules or more subjective forms of expression, religion is merely effort. Simply saying that it's not is not an argument, you realize
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It's just as much of an argument as when you do it. ;)

The key thing that makes a religion a religion is that a religion is a community of shared belief. You can have an individualized belief system, but not an individualized religion.

This doesn't necessarily mean that religions have to have strict rules, but religion is a matter of collaboration with others.


... so it seems to me that you started from a definition of religion that I don't personally agree with and just took off running.
 
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