Why certain religions should be discontinued.

[may]

The more people are taught that death will be better than life, the more this life will be neglected. quote] i am glad to say that Jehovahs witnesses do not teach that there is an afterlife. because we stick to true bible teachings ,and the bible does NOT teach ............ the imortality of the human soul ....................... we are a soul ,we do not possess a soul . the teaching of the .................IMORTALITY OF THE HUMAN SOUL is false and many religions teach this .

 

[yuvgotmel]

You brought up some good points:

Does attacking a government necessarily mean that you're attacking the citizens?

I like that analogy. I too have been accused to attacking the members of faiths before. And I have tried to explain that I am not, sometimes with little success because people are so emotionally attached to their dogmas. I'm going to use this analogy; it's perfect.

The list goes on and on how Christianity and related religions has muddied the scientific minds of the masses.

This is a very key issue. It may go back to something that happened a long time ago too. I do believe that some religions/sects have been used in a manner to shut off neurological paths--literally. I won't go into too much detail how I do believe certain (occult) powers have manipulated the minds of the masses--willfully--in order to gain and maintain power.

These kinds of religions have been around since the dawn of man's imagination and the infection has spread much too far to be fully purged.

Are you saying that you think religion cannot be abolished?

 

[Scuba Pete]

I am not sure that I agree with ANYTHING in your OP, but two points really stick out.

If anyone disagrees that religion is the number one cause of death in this world, say so now.

I completely disagree. It is man's love for POWER and wealth that is the number one cause of death. Men may twist religion to their own agenda, but in the end it's just a lust for power and the greed that goes right along with that.

I've been told that science requires faith, and this is horribly untrue.

Faith merely fills in the gaps of our understanding and our direct perception. Logic is not the antithesis of faith, since faith is ultimately derived from logic. Faith is not a four letter word to be avoided at all costs. I have faith that the brakes in my car will work and so I use them. I have never seen these brakes but I was told that I have four disc brakes and since I stop every time I depress the brake pedal, I will continue to have faith in them. Faith is useful for without it we would be mired in uncertainty and doubt. In fact, doubt and not logic is the antithesis of faith.

As Jay pointed out maturity takes time and is not a linear process. Maturity, like wisdom seems to raise more questions about our thought processes and ideologies than actual answers. IOW, the more you know the more you realize just how little you actually know. You speak of "honing" your arguments rather than trying to discover truth. In this respect you just might have the cart before the horse. Debate is good not because you learn how to argue mightily, but because you can actually change your understanding of the truth. I would much rather discuss issues with a seeker rather than with someone who is merely bent on justifying their belief system.

 

[yuvgotmel]

Logic is not the antithesis of faith, since faith is ultimately derived from logic. Faith is not a four letter word to be avoided at all costs. I have faith that the brakes in my car will work and so I use them. I have never seen these brakes but I was told that I have four disc brakes and since I stop every time I depress the brake pedal, I will continue to have faith in them. Faith is useful for without it we would be mired in uncertainty and doubt. In fact, doubt and not logic is the antithesis of faith.

Your analogy is bad. Someone could disassemble the car and show you the brakes, the mechanics of the entire machine and how the brakes are activated.

Furthermore, brakes do sometimes fail to work. Yet again, someone could disassemble the car and show you how and what failed (if you survived the crash, in case there was one).

And lastly, there has been quite a lot of research into some religions and the claims therein, but much of the structure has proven to be faulty, which may account for the bad behaviors of the believers, failed prophecies and unanswered prayers.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Your analogy is bad. Someone could disassemble the car and show you the brakes, the mechanics of the entire machine and how the brakes are activated.

No, it's perfect. As an ASE master auto technician, I know intimately how brakes work. I could explain to you in incredible detail how proportioning valves, quick take up master cylinders and even how anti-lock brakes work. I still use FAITH when I depress the brake pedal.

This is truly an evidenced faith. The problem with most people who have tossed faith out, is that they focus only on blind faith. Unfortunately, an evidenced faith may not appear to be so to the casual observer, but that does not stop it from being evidenced.

Furthermore, brakes do sometimes fail to work.

As does faith in God. Do you stop using brakes altogether because of a failure? No, you fix them and use them with the same faith as you did before.

Yet again, someone could disassemble the car and show you how and what failed (if you survived the crash, in case there was one).

The same can be said for faith in God.

And lastly, there has been quite a lot of research into some religions and the claims therein, but much of the structure has proven to be faulty, which may account for the bad behaviors of the believers, failed prophecies and unanswered prayers.

All too often people use the wrong tool for a particular job. Like my Uncle Bill. He uses the horn when he SHOULD be using the brakes. His faith in how people will respond to his honking is not only unevidenced, but counter evidenced! He has more accidents then ANYONE just because he continues to use the wrong tool.

Most of us would agree that religion is about the spiritual. So why do most prayers center around the physical? Heal this person, help me out of this jam, Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz? Your brakes are designed to stop linear motion. They are useless in directing your vehicle in a different direction. Use the right tool for the right job. My faith in my brakes is not ameliorated because they won't turn my car, and my faith in the usefulness of my horn is not hurt because of my Uncle Bill's inability to use it correctly.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

If anyone disagrees that religion is the number one cause of death in this world, say so now.

I say living is the number one cause of death.

In terms of murder and all that junk, whether religion is here or not is irrelevent. We can be a violent species. People kill other people.

 

[MaddLlama]

If anyone disagrees that religion is the number one cause of death in this world, say so now.

Heart Disease is the number one cause of death today. And, the Black Death was the number one cause of death in the Dark Ages.

 

[Popeyesays]

It is evident and clear to the wise men of nations - those wise men who are the wooers of absolute reality - that the purpose of the divine messengers and the revelation of the heavenly books and the establishment of the religion of God has been none other than to create amity and justice between the children of the races. True religion is the foundation of spiritual union, the union of thought, the union of susceptibilities, the unity of customs and the ideal chain binding together all the children of men. Through its practical realization, the minds and souls will receive development by divine instruction; 161 they will become assisted to investigate reality, attain to a lofty station of wisdom and establish the basis of a divine civilization.
There are two kinds of civilization, - material civilization which serves the physical world and divine civilization which renders service to the world of morality. The founders of the material, practical civilization are the scientists and investigators and the establishers of divine civilization are the celestial universal teachers.
True religion is the basis of divine civilization. Material civilization is like unto the body; divine civilization is like unto the spirit. A body without the spirit is dead, although it may be clothed in the utmost beauty and comeliness.
In short, by religion we mean those necessary bonds which have power to unify. This has ever been the essence of the religion of God. This is the eternal bestowal of God! This is the object of divine teachings and laws! This is the light of the everlasting life! Alas! A thousand times alas! that this solid foundation is abandoned and forgotten and the leaders of religions have fabricated a set of superstitions and rituals which are at complete variance with the underlying thought. As these man-made ideas differ from each other they cause dissension which breeds strife and ends in war and bloodshed; the blood of innocent people is spilled, their possessions are pillaged and their children become captives and orphans.
Thus religion which was destined to become 162 the cause of friendship has become the cause of enmity. Religion, which was meant to be sweet honey, is changed into bitter poison. Religion, the function of which was to illumine humanity, has become the factor of obscuration and gloom. Religion, which was to confer the consciousness of everlasting life, has become the fiendish instrument of death. As long as these superstitions are in the hands and these nets of dissimulation and hypocrisy in the fingers, religion will be the most harmful agency on this planet. These superannuated traditions, which are inherited unto the present day, must be abandoned, and thus free from past superstitions we must investigate the original intention. The basis on which they have fabricated the superstructures will be seen to be one, and that one, absolute reality; and as reality is indivisible, complete unity and amity will be instituted and the true religion of God will become unveiled in all its beauty and sublimity in the assemblage of the world.
Hence, to this honorable congress I say, "Tear asunder the veils and curtains of these dogmas, remove these accumulated, suffocating increments, dispel these dark impenetrable clouds, that the sun of reality may shine from the horizon of eternity."
Praise be to God that this century is the century of sciences! This cycle is the cycle of reality! The minds have developed; the thoughts 163 have taken a wider range of vision; the intellects have become keener; the emotions have become more sensitized; the inventions have transformed the face of the earth, and this age has acquired a glorious capacity for the majestic revelation of the oneness of the world of humanity.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 160)

 

[Reverend Rick]

Certain religions should be abolished.

Just how do you propose to abolish them?

You statement has no more merit than me saying, I am going to remove all cancer from the earth.

I have a better one. Lets all move to our own different planets. Only people who think alike could be on each one. Or, mean people suck, lets just send them all there, and we can all stay here.

 

[matthew.william]

If anyone disagrees that religion is the number one cause of death in this world, say so now. Many of the world's current major religions create barriers between people of other religions, and even between people of the same religion who worship just a little bit differently.

I disagree with your first sentence completely. In fact, in the 20th century, I believe atheist mindsets caused more deaths than any religion. Does Stalin, Mao, or Hitler ring any bells? I don't blame atheism nor religions for deaths, because all evil comes from people being comparative. Whether religion existed or not, there are other barriers people create.

Each says the other is going to hell, each says, "I'm right and you're wrong and you'd better repent or you'll be sorry." Religions like Christianity, Islam, and Judaism tend to hold back scientific advancements

What about Copernicus, Kepler, Galilei, Descartes, Newton, Mendel, Bacon, Gosse... ?

Not to mention the catholic church established the university system, as well as hospitals.

It was the freethinkers that convinced us that the Bible was wrong-- science showed us that we should sterilize our surgical tools, that mental illness was caused by chemical imbalances and not demons, that the earth was a sphere and not flat, that the earth revolved around the sun and not vice versa, that medicine cured illnesses and not the hand of God.

Actually, the first people to sterilize tools were the polytheistic ancient romans.
Nicolaus Copernicus was the first to formulate the heliocentric theory of the solar system.Oddly enough, he was roman catholic. Medicine has been practiced for thousands of years by all sorts of cultures. To say that religious people have held up the medical field is ridiculous. The catholic church established the hospital system!


Can't finish now, off to work.

~matthew.william~

 

[rojse]

I believe that there are some religions that should be abolished. I do agree that there are good things about religions, and there are posts within this topic that can give far better examples than I could.

But religion has been used as a reason for certain extremist groups to wage many wars. A good example of this is Iran. Suicide bombers kill themselves every week for the promise of a better afterlife, given to them through their religion. Although the detonation of the bomb kills the soldiers and civilians, it was religion that presses the detonator.

The pilots in the planes for 9/11 killed because their religion told them to. The Bali bombings in 2001 occured through the direction of religion. Although there were people behind these actions, this occured under the direction of religion.

I am certain that these actions are not supported by the entire religion that committed this action, but only by minority extremists, and any religious ban would only increase support to any religion. But still, if you had the power to command certain minority religious groups to vanish, the groups responsible for these atrocities, wouldn't you do it?

 

[Scuba Pete]

But still, if you had the power to command certain minority religious groups to vanish, the groups responsible for these atrocities, wouldn't you do it?

Hitler tried this once. We called it the Holocaust. I find your entire line of thought incredibly disturbing bordering on frightening.

 

[matthew.william]

I believe that there are some religions that should be abolished. I do agree that there are good things about religions, and there are posts within this topic that can give far better examples than I could.

But religion has been used as a reason for certain extremist groups to wage many wars.

I would suggest you pick up the Encyclopedia of Wars. They printed a new edition not to long ago. of the 1700+ historical wars, about, oh, 7% were even remotely connected to religion. This is a typical argument, but it is a poor one that nobody really seems to look in to.

A good example of this is Iran. Suicide bombers kill themselves every week for the promise of a better afterlife, given to them through their religion. Although the detonation of the bomb kills the soldiers and civilians, it was religion that presses the detonator.

The pilots in the planes for 9/11 killed because their religion told them to. The Bali bombings in 2001 occured through the direction of religion. Although there were people behind these actions, this occured under the direction of religion.

So, because of those events, you wish to abolish Islam? Well Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao Zedong were all atheist and all did horrible things...should we abolish atheism?

I am certain that these actions are not supported by the entire religion that committed this action, but only by minority extremists, and any religious ban would only increase support to any religion. But still, if you had the power to command certain minority religious groups to vanish, the groups responsible for these atrocities, wouldn't you do it?

Huh, funny enough, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Hitler, and Pol Pot all thought the same thing. Kinda weird, huh?

~matthew.william~

 

[KPereira]

So, because of those events, you wish to abolish Islam? Well Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao Zedong were all atheist and all did horrible things...should we abolish atheism? Huh, funny enough, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Hitler, and Pol Pot all thought the same thing. Kinda weird, huh?

A damn good point, I must say. Every side has committed atrocities. Yes, there are Islamic terrorists...but for the sake of a few, that is no reason to discontinue an entire religion. I mean the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists. Nobody has a right to dictate what others believe in. No religion should be 'discontinued', especially for the sake of a few extremists. There are Christian extremists too, you know. Yet, you never hear CNN run a story about them. Funny, eh? Should Christianity be discontinued too, for the sake of a few extremists? There are 2.1 billion Christians (Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, and others) worldwide, according to Wikipedia. Now have many of those 2.1 billion would you say are extremists? Enough to discontinue the entire religion? If you think so, then Lord help you. 1.1 billion Muslims, according to Wikipedia. How many are extremists? Certainly not enough to 'discontinue' Islam, in my opinion. These Islamic terrorists believe they are fighting a Holy War against Christianity. You really think 'discontinuing' Islam is going to make 1.1 billion people happy? If thats your way of thinking, I really hope you reconsider.

 

[may]

And one of the seven angels that had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying: ‘Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.’"—Revelation 17:1, 2.............This GREAT HARLOT is all false religion, she misleads ALL THE NATIONS.
she still seeks to influence and mold political affairs. But does God approve of religion in politics?
Jesus shunned political involvement and said of his disciples: "They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world."—John 6:15; 17:16; Matthew 4:8-10; see also James 4:4.
Through her meddling in politics, the great harlot has brought untold sorrow to mankind.
wooing the political State in order to gain power and advantage.
Babylon the Great is riding the scarlet-colored wild beast.
And he [the angel] carried me away in the power of the spirit into a wilderness. And I caught sight of a woman sitting upon a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns."—Revelation 17:3.................. this wild beast is FULL of blasphemous names.
What is remarkable about John’s vision, though, is that Babylon the Great is riding the scarlet-colored wild beast. True to the prophecy, Babylonish religion, particularly in Christendom, has linked itself with the League of Nations and its successor (united nations)
men have set up this multinational idol as a substitute for God’s Kingdom—to accomplish what God says his Kingdom alone can accomplish. only Gods kngdom will bring peace to the earth . Daniel 2;44
paying homage to the scarlet-colored wild beast is not the way to peace , but putting our trust in Gods heavenly kingdom is the way to go .
Jehovah’s heavenly Kingdom under Christ—and not a combine of squabbling politicians, many of them atheists—is the means by which he will bring in peace and have his will done on earth as in heaven.—Deuteronomy 32:4; Matthew 6:10. Jesus is NOW a reigning king in the established heavenly kingdom goverment Daniel 2;44 daniel 7;13-14,and looking to the TRUE way to peace will bring great blessings to the earth. those who CLAIM to represent the God of the bible should be looking to Gods kingdom NOT manmade things .
no human or political state has the authority or the power to accomplish this. Only Jehovah and his appointed King and Judge, Christ Jesus, can do this in righteousness.
Clearly, the United Nations does not have the ability to bring world peace. Its members and supporters are all imperfect humans,JEHOVAH GOD will manouver
powerful nations into a campaign to remove false religion. REVELATION 17;17 Its all happening in these the last days . the end of FALSE RELIGION IS NEAR .

 

[cardero]

I think people should reapply to some neutral committee to continue their practice of faith. Let us set the term for like hmmm-I don’t know, seven years perhaps. And in that seven year period a religious organization has to approach this committee with the results in which they have moved their beliefs towards Truth and if the committee feels that these are valid results they let the religion continue to practice their faith and expand their movement for another seven years. Doctrines and teachings such as prophecies that have failed will immediately revoke a religion’s license to practice a particular faith and the organization must reapply under another name.

This may accomplish three things:
1. If one is going to practice faith it keeps faith from going stale or standing still.
2. It gets people to think and if they believe the movement worthwhile they will continue to try to conclude their beliefs as a Truth or an Untruth.
3. It will prevent religions from preying (praying?) on naïve or impressionable people just to fill their ranks with the hope of unproven claims and promises.

Another idea I had which was more commercial, was a televised religion “survival” show where different denominations would elect their highest officials and face off for a television season and present their doctrines and teachings and let a studio audience of non-religious members vote who has the true authority to speak for God based on their faith, good works and what they are universally doing for the world. This could be entertaining as well as educational. The losing religion would be exposed and offered a chance to join the other winning religion and just to show that there are no hard feelings, those representatives will also receive a home version of the game and a year supply of Rice and Roni-The San Francisco treat.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I think people should reapply to some neutral committee to continue their practice of faith.

Just what the world needs: the faith police. :slap:

 

[michel]

Just what the world needs: the faith police. :slap:

Not being funny, but isn't that what you already have in the U.S ? - Christians ?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Not being funny, but isn't that what you already have in the U.S ? - Christians ?

Not to be funny, but no.

 

[michel]

Not to be funny, but no.

Sorry, I was under the impression that, not to be a Christian was a "stain" on your character....... (an impression gained from the atheists here)