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Why condemn a whole people if only a few do wrong?

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
A very classical issue that occure not only in RF but in daily life on earth, is that people judge everyone from a group if one of them do wrong.

Example if one muslim do wrong, every muslim must be evil.

If one Christian do wrong Christianity must be evil?

How about if a car mechanic do an evil action, example murder or rape, does every car mechanics become evil human beings?

So why Do you judge differently if a bad person come from a religious background?
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
A very classical issue that occure not only in RF but in daily life on earth, is that people judge everyone from a group if one of them do wrong.

Example if one muslim do wrong, every muslim must be evil.

If one Christian do wrong Christianity must be evil?

How about if a car mechanic do an evil action, example murder or rape, does every car mechanics become evil human beings?

So why Do you judge differently if a bad person come from a religious background?
Are car mechanics shouting "Mitsubishi" while doing their evil acts?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Are car mechanics shouting "Mitsubishi" while doing their evil acts?
I dont think so. What you reffering to is when a terrorist say Allahu akbar. That means Allah is great. But does he do a righterous action by killing those people? No, and actually he using Allahs name to do evil.
Question: do all muslim scream Allahu akbar and then kill? No we dont.

So it is wrong to judge every muslim for what a few do.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
But does he do a righterous action by killing those people?

He certainly thinks so, yes.


No, and actually he using Allahs name to do evil.

He'ld disagree. He'll likely also say that you are the evil one and that you are the one who's misusing allah's name.

Question: do all muslim scream Allahu akbar and then kill? No we dont.

I don't think anyone here said otherwise.

So it is wrong to judge every muslim for what a few do.

Sure.
What isn't wrong though, is to judge / condemn the ideology that motivated the evil.
Which in the case of the muslim terrorist, definitely is a certain version / interpretation of islam.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
He certainly thinks so, yes.




He'ld disagree. He'll likely also say that you are the evil one and that you are the one who's misusing allah's name.



I don't think anyone here said otherwise.



Sure.
What isn't wrong though, is to judge / condemn the ideology that motivated the evil.
Which in the case of the muslim terrorist, definitely is a certain version / interpretation of islam.
What i dont agree on is that the muslims er today call terrorists are doing wrong, where i do not agree is where some say that islam is teaching everyone to become evil.

The muslims who do wrong have misunderstood the teaching. They act out of ego, believing they are better than others, they are not.

A muslim can defend him/her self if attacked that is true. Defending islam does not mean we should kill non believers
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
A very classical issue that occure not only in RF but in daily life on earth, is that people judge everyone from a group if one of them do wrong.

Example if one muslim do wrong, every muslim must be evil.

If one Christian do wrong Christianity must be evil?

How about if a car mechanic do an evil action, example murder or rape, does every car mechanics become evil human beings?

So why Do you judge differently if a bad person come from a religious background?
Your question confuses condemning a people who follow religion with condemning a religion itself.

I don't condemn religions because some of their people are bad. I condemn religions because ETA in my opinion they are wrong.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
I dont think so. What you reffering to is when a terrorist say Allahu akbar. That means Allah is great. But does he do a righterous action by killing those people? No, and actually he using Allahs name to do evil.
Question: do all muslim scream Allahu akbar and then kill? No we dont.

So it is wrong to judge every muslim for what a few do.
I'm with you on that. And I don't defend condemning Muslims for what religious fanatics do, I just want to explain it.
What a casual news viewer gets to know about Islam, is the extremists actions. (And you have to admit that there not a few extremists but a few tens of thousands. Not much in relation to all Muslims but so many that they generate a constant stream of bad news.) The moderate Muslims have a hard time condemning the actions of the extremists every time. (And when they do, that doesn't make into the news.)
Add to this the barbaric laws and behaviour of Muslim majority countries and the prejudice becomes a fact.

sam-harris-islamic-fundamentalism1.jpg


That has it's merit but only to a point. Judaism and Christianity have similar violent fundamentals and especially Christianity has acted upon those violent fundamentals in the past.
The difference is that the West (and with it Christianity) has made the transformation to a more civilized society through the Enlightenment.
Islam needs an Enlightenment.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
It is my firm belief that as a group (muslims,christians etc) the good, and there are far more good than bad) should do what they can to reduced the bad. Unfortunately they don't, they just say he/she is not a true muslim/christian so its nothing to do with us and walk away from the evil that their faith has helped to produce
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It's human nature to look for scapegoats and easy answers. We want someone to blame, and, if the actual perpetrator be unavailable, we look for something similar.
If we can't have justice, we'll settle for a convenient substitute.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Yes of course. I'm the one doing the condemning so it's up to me to decide which ones are wrong.

Don't expect me to accept your religion on the basis of what someone else thinks.
Of course i do not expect you or anybody else accepting what i personally believe.

I just got a bit surprised you out your self above God :confused:
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
It is my firm belief that as a group (muslims,christians etc) the good, and there are far more good than bad) should do what they can to reduced the bad. Unfortunately they don't, they just say he/she is not a true muslim/christian so its nothing to do with us and walk away from the evil that their faith has helped to produce
I think many muslims do try to reduce the bad of those terrorists. But media dont show it
 

Samael_Khan

Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
A very classical issue that occure not only in RF but in daily life on earth, is that people judge everyone from a group if one of them do wrong.

Example if one muslim do wrong, every muslim must be evil.

If one Christian do wrong Christianity must be evil?It see

How about if a car mechanic do an evil action, example murder or rape, does every car mechanics become evil human beings?

So why Do you judge differently if a bad person come from a religious background?

Here is an example of the actual problem from a persepective of an outsider looking in:

Ravi Zacharias has been revealed to be a sexual predator and a whole lot of christians condemn him for it.

If the same thing is revealed about a famous muslim how many muslims would condemn his actions?

It seems like (emphasis on SEEMS) muslims in general don't like to admit that their religion and its practitioners have flaws. That is a problem. There is also the general muslim hypocrisy that they constantly talk about Palestine and Israel but never if ever speak about muslims getting killed by other muslims, the Chinese killing muslims, muslims getting killed in Syria and such events, which gives the impression that they have a political agenda against Israel but they dont care about the actual muslims around the world. People suspect them of dishonesty. So the suspicion is that they are hiding an agenda and are in support of certain wrongdoings because of a joint ideology.

Now I would say personally that this doesn't include any group but the Sunni muslims but most people don't know that there are different sects in Islam.

To me, an ex-JW, meaning that I have been in a group that doesn't like admitting its mistakes for certain specific reasons, see a similarity between the group I belonged to and how Sunni muslims behave. Sunni's, from what I have understood when speaking to muslims, have been influenced by the Salafi's which might also give this impression.

The problem is that muslims are too secretive about what they believe and tend to evade explicit questions or paint a picture that is too rosy about Islam and contradicts what people see around them. This makes them suspicious.

But I at least know one muslim who is genuine and he is a good friend of mine, but the majority of Sunni's I know have an arrogance about them that is offputting.
 
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Nimos

Well-Known Member
A very classical issue that occure not only in RF but in daily life on earth, is that people judge everyone from a group if one of them do wrong.

Example if one muslim do wrong, every muslim must be evil.

If one Christian do wrong Christianity must be evil?

How about if a car mechanic do an evil action, example murder or rape, does every car mechanics become evil human beings?

So why Do you judge differently if a bad person come from a religious background?
There is quite a huge difference between the comparisons you make. Being a car mechanic is an educational profession and tell you nothing about a person. You can be a muslim, atheist or christian and a car mechanic at the same time.

However it is not possible to be an atheist and muslim at the same time. Obvious reason being that these are labels that describe a person's view on religious matters.
And with each label comes a lifetime of personal experiences and teachings, sometimes these views are taught to people from the very beginning of their lives and in other cases they are arrived at. But where a car mechanic is taught how to fix cars, a person brought up with or without religion is taught how to view other people, the world and the society to which they belong. What is right and what is wrong. What and how people should and shouldn't be punished based on their beliefs.

Religions have many path, not all Christians agree with all other Christians and not all Muslims agree or are taught the same as other Muslims. But equal for all religions is that they teach people what others before them believe to be true and just, based on traditions and interpretations, rather than facing the hard questions themselves of what is actually most likely to be true and just.

It just happens that some religious teachers within these religions prefer teaching unity and to some degree acceptance of other religious or non religious views, more than others do. But in the end they all follow the formula as those that encourage hate and non acceptance of other views than their own. Something based on personal interpretations of old texts rather than what life itself throws at them.

Certain things are taught to religious people, whether they like it or not, like there being only one true version of God and that it is their version, if they did not believe that, they wouldn't follow that religion. And since lots of cruelty can come from these texts depending on how they are interpreted and taught to others, which only belong to that particular group of religious people. Then it is fair to say that certain things spring from certain religions and not others. Meaning, that you would never find an atheist judging other people based on what is written in the Quran or the bible as if they were an authority on what is right and wrong. Just as you wouldn't find a muslim using the Christian bible as such either.

So just as people will judge atheists for their non belief, so will we judge each other for having chosen the wrong religion or one at all. But as we know, that doesn't mean that we for the most case, find all of a certain view to be wrong or evil. Simply that their wrong beliefs or lack there off in certain cases give them the possibility of holding certain views or do things that do not make sense in our world view. And you will find that even within people of same religion, Islamic terrorists will still harm those of the same religion, because to them, they are not true muslims. Their interpretations and former teachings are not inline with what you might believe true Islam is. But as I said, the method used to arrived at these teachings are the same, it's others personal opinions and interpretation of old texts, taught to others as if they were true, with little connection to life and reason itself, if you ask me.

I can only speak as an atheist myself, but I judge all religions the same. Im simply happy that most of the teachings and interpretations seems to prefer unity and acceptance of others rather than not.
 
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