Why did Adam fall?

[the_scarp]

The title of the post isn't very descriptive. My question is that, if God is all knowing and all powerful, then why did he let Satan into the Garden to allow Eve to be subverted, or why did he make the Tree of Knowledge even reachable. In short, why did God assign the blame to stupid and naive humans when he could have - should have - prevented it from the beginning? If he loves us so much, why punish us for something we couldn't have avoided?

I do not mean to sound rude or arrogant...it just bothers me is all.

 

[nutshell]

The title of the post isn't very descriptive. My question is that, if God is all knowing and all powerful, then why did he let Satan into the Garden to allow Eve to be subverted, or why did he make the Tree of Knowledge even reachable. In short, why did God assign the blame to stupid and naive humans when he could have - should have - prevented it from the beginning? If he loves us so much, why punish us for something we couldn't have avoided?

I do not mean to sound rude or arrogant...it just bothers me is all.

Adam fell that men might be and men are that they might have joy.

The human race wouldn't have existed without the Fall and neither would have joy.

 

[worshiper]

Adam fell that men might be and men are that they might have joy.

The human race wouldn't have existed without the Fall and neither would have joy.

i second the motion

be thankful that you are alive for if not for Adam and Eve, God knows what you might become

 

[Smoke]

I think it's likely that the story of the Fall was originally an enlightenment myth, starring the serpent as the good guy. Even in its present form, it's notable that the serpent tells the truth and God doesn't. Also, it's uncertain why God would want to prevent people from knowing good and evil, and doubtful whether people who didn't know good from evil should be punished for taking the fruit. God just doesn't come off very well in the story. It's highly unfortunate that religious thinkers like Paul, Augustine and Calvin relied so heavily on it in their theology.

 

[lilithu]

Why did Adam fall?

Gravity.

Seriously, Adam and Eve "fell" because the "fall" was inevitable with free will. If they truly had a choice, then sooner or later they had choose differently. And this was a good thing, as Nutshell has suggested. With the "fall" humanity claimed moral agency and took responsibility for themselves, and control of their own destiny.

My question is that, if God is all knowing and all powerful, then why did he let Satan into the Garden to allow Eve to be subverted, or why did he make the Tree of Knowledge even reachable. In short, why did God assign the blame to stupid and naive humans when he could have - should have - prevented it from the beginning? If he loves us so much, why punish us for something we couldn't have avoided?

That's a different question isn't it? Why did God let Adam fall? I don't think that God should have prevented it from happening, for the reasons already given. And I don't think that God really "blamed" us. The story is told from the human perspective. And even tho the "fall" was inevitable and ultimately good, with loss of innocence there is always grief. The story reflects that grief.

Your question seems to assume that we now live in "original sin" etc., etc. I don't buy it. The "fall" was a good thing. It was when we started to create ourselves. And in that respect, we really did become like gods.

 

[FatMan]

I've always believed that the "fall" of Adam was meant to be illustrative that we a human. That we err. And that we are not the perfect model that a deity would be.

 

[the_scarp]

Well, it's not an issue of original sin, so much as it is the fact that being human means we are sinful by nature (according to most) and therefore need the salvation of Jesus Christ. Seems unfair to me to sentence decent people to an eternal torturous damnation just because they don't believe in Jesus as their savior.

(sort of a different tack, but the only way I could lead into it)

 

[wizanda]

Rotten fruit on the floor, snakes aren't good at climbing trees...
= Alcohol...
= They got drunk blame the snake...

= God catches them being dirty rather then pure.:angel2:

 

[sojourner]

The title of the post isn't very descriptive. My question is that, if God is all knowing and all powerful, then why did he let Satan into the Garden to allow Eve to be subverted, or why did he make the Tree of Knowledge even reachable. In short, why did God assign the blame to stupid and naive humans when he could have - should have - prevented it from the beginning? If he loves us so much, why punish us for something we couldn't have avoided?

I do not mean to sound rude or arrogant...it just bothers me is all.

Read the passage. It wasn't Satan in the garden, it was a serpent. In ancient myth, the serpent was a symbol for wisdom and healing (that's why the Caduseus is the symbol of the medical profession). It was also common in ancient myth for the god of wisdom to show up on earth and secretly impart knowledge to his beloved humans. For this, he was punished by the heavenly court.

The fall was a "fall up." In order for us to realize our divine nature, we had to become self-aware.

 

[sojourner]

I think it's likely that the story of the Fall was originally an enlightenment myth, starring the serpent as the good guy. Even in its present form, it's notable that the serpent tells the truth and God doesn't. Also, it's uncertain why God would want to prevent people from knowing good and evil, and doubtful whether people who didn't know good from evil should be punished for taking the fruit. God just doesn't come off very well in the story. It's highly unfortunate that religious thinkers like Paul, Augustine and Calvin relied so heavily on it in their theology.

I agree. Although I would opine that God wanted to prevent people from knowing good and evil since it would (as the serpent says) make humanity "like God." Here, the writer shows a basic tenet of "the way things are:" There is a basic distinction between divinity and humanity that cannot be blurred.

 

[sojourner]

Eve was hit with a 1,2,3 punch. The areas we are tempted are: the pride of life, the lust of the eyes, and the lust of the flesh. And, she believed the first lie ever told her. The serpent said, "Yea, hath God said?" (as people say today about the Bible) She saw the fruit that it was lovely--lust of the eyes, she saw that it looked good to eat--lust of the flesh, and she was told she would be like God if she ate it--pride of life. It was a blitzkrieg assault by Satan that she withered under quickly. This is how he still operates today, with deception and temptation of the flesh--sex, drugs, gluttony, etc., of the eye--greed, covetousness, materialism, and pride of life--desire for power, fame, etc. God let this happen because He does not want robots who automatically worship and fellowship with Him. He wants to give us free choice to choose to love Him and love doing what is right and loving each other. However when people are tempted in the above ways, they fall into all kinds of vile, wicked and cruel behaviors in their lust for worldly things. Like Bob Dillen said, that you can follow God or the Devil but you can't follow both.

Actually, St. Dylan said, "It might be the devil, or it might be the Lord, but you gotta serve somebody."

 

[joeboonda]

Actually, St. Dylan said, "It might be the devil, or it might be the Lord, but you gotta serve somebody."

Yup. Didn't feel like looking it up, forgot exact wording, same point though.

 

[lilithu]

Read the passage. It wasn't Satan in the garden, it was a serpent. In ancient myth, the serpent was a symbol for wisdom and healing (that's why the Caduseus is the symbol of the medical profession).

Actually, the Caduceus is not a symbol for medicine. The Rod of Asclepius is and the two are often confused. (Caduceus = two snakes wrapped around a winged-rod; Rod of Asclepius = one snake wrapped around a rod.)

And many scholars believe that the one snake used to be a worm, the symbol then being a pictoral sign that this was a place where one would get treated for parasitic worms. ("Doctors" used to de-worm you by cutting a slit in the skin and then wrapping the long parasite around a stick as he gently pulled it out of you.)

It was also common in ancient myth for the god of wisdom to show up on earth and secretly impart knowledge to his beloved humans. For this, he was punished by the heavenly court.

The fall was a "fall up." In order for us to realize our divine nature, we had to become self-aware.

Yay!! I'm so glad to see we're in agreement here! :angel2:

 

[doppelganger]

Actually, St. Dylan said, "It might be the devil, or it might be the Lord, but you gotta serve somebody."

Ah, the Keith Green years . . .

 

[doppelganger]

Actually, the Caduceus is not a symbol for medicine. The Rod of Asclepius is and the two are often confused. (Caduceus = two snakes wrapped around a winged-rod; Rod of Asclepius = one snake wrapped around a rod.)

And the healing symbol for Israel was a serpent nailed to a pole. It eventually became an idol . . .


As usual, the serpent is both hero and villain (just as in the Fall).

 

[Katzpur]

Adam fell that men might be and men are that they might have joy.

The human race wouldn't have existed without the Fall and neither would have joy.

You don't believe this any more. Or did you forget?

 

[Quagmire]

Adam fell because he started walking on two legs instead of four, which isn't nearly as stable.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

The title of the post isn't very descriptive. My question is that, if God is all knowing and all powerful, then why did he let Satan into the Garden to allow Eve to be subverted, or why did he make the Tree of Knowledge even reachable. In short, why did God assign the blame to stupid and naive humans when he could have - should have - prevented it from the beginning? If he loves us so much, why punish us for something we couldn't have avoided?

I do not mean to sound rude or arrogant...it just bothers me is all.

These are great questions. Does anyone know if the answers are found in the Bible?

 

[joeboonda]

Well, its not the Tree of Knowledge, but the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. God is good, so good He gave us the choice to choose either good or evil. By disobeying God, believing the lie, "yea, hath God said?', and lusting after the fruit for it looked good to eat (lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh), and desiring to "be like God" (pride of life), another lie, man chose evil and fell. Now God lays before us life and death, choose good, choose to obey God and live forever, choose evil, sin, which leads to death, and live eternally separated from God forever. God lays it out for us, He tells us of the consequences of each, one way leads to life, the other to death. Although it is foolishness to choose sin and death, He still gives us the free choice, only with that choice comes consequences, good or bad. He then shows us we have all sinned and are hopelessly lost and thus He provides a way to reconcile back to Himself, freely...(any guesses on how He did that?)

 

[Smoke]

Well, its not the Tree of Knowledge, but the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. God is good, so good He gave us the choice to choose either good or evil. By disobeying God, believing the lie, "yea, hath God said?', and lusting after the fruit for it looked good to eat (lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh), and desiring to "be like God" (pride of life), another lie, man chose evil and fell.

But if they didn't know good and evil before they took the fruit, they didn't know they were choosing evil. They only knew after they ate the fruit. So how could they be accountable for taking it?