Why did God create the world in the first place

[Random]

Who said I was?

RF-God. :flirt:

 

[Te Deum]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Fall.

IV. "YOU DID NOT ABANDON HIM TO THE POWER OF DEATH"

410 After his fall, man was not abandoned by God. On the contrary, God calls him and in a mysterious way heralds the coming victory over evil and his restoration from his fall.304 This passage in Genesis is called the Protoevangelium ("first gospel"): the first announcement of the Messiah and Redeemer, of a battle between the serpent and the Woman, and of the final victory of a descendant of hers.


411 The Christian tradition sees in this passage an announcement of the "New Adam" who, because he "became obedient unto death, even death on a cross", makes amends superabundantly for the disobedience, of Adam.305 Furthermore many Fathers and Doctors of the Church have seen the woman announced in the Protoevangelium as Mary, the mother of Christ, the "new Eve". Mary benefited first of all and uniquely from Christ's victory over sin: she was preserved from all stain of original sin and by a special grace of God committed no sin of any kind during her whole earthly life.306


412 But why did God not prevent the first man from sinning? St. Leo the Great responds, "Christ's inexpressible grace gave us blessings better than those the demon's envy had taken away."307 And St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, "There is nothing to prevent human nature's being raised up to something greater, even after sin; God permits evil in order to draw forth some greater good. Thus St. Paul says, 'Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more'; and the Exsultet sings, 'O happy fault,. . . which gained for us so great a Redeemer!'"308

304 Cf. Gen 3:9,15.
305 Cf. 1 Cor 15:21-22,45; Phil 2:8; Rom 5:19-20.
306 Cf. Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus: DS 2803; Council of Trent: DS 1573.
307 St. Leo the Great, Sermo 73,4: PL 54,396.
308 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh III,1,3, ad 3; cf. Rom 5:20.

 

[Starfish]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Fall.

That was interesting to me. Thanks for posting it. (I've noticed it's so difficult for me to understand the doctrines of other religions in written form. Probably because it usually written in a way that none of us speak. But that's beside the point.)

It saddens me when I hear that other religions decry Adam as a sinful person for his transgression of eating the fruit. I believe Adam was a great man, making a difficult choice in a difficult situation. There's so much we don't know yet. God placed him there, knowing exactly what would happen. God really is in control of this world. His plan is for our benefit.

 

[blackout]

Why did God create the world in the first place?

Why does anybody do anything?

 

[Te Deum]

That was interesting to me. Thanks for posting it. (I've noticed it's so difficult for me to understand the doctrines of other religions in written form. Probably because it usually written in a way that none of us speak. But that's beside the point.)

It saddens me when I hear that other religions decry Adam as a sinful person for his transgression of eating the fruit. I believe Adam was a great man, making a difficult choice in a difficult situation. There's so much we don't know yet. God placed him there, knowing exactly what would happen. God really is in control of this world. His plan is for our benefit.

I'm glad that you liked the excerpt from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I would also like to add that the Eastern Orthodox Church does view Adam/Eve as saints.

 

[Katzpur]

LDS is not a christian faith! the reason god started the world was because he was bored and did not care

It is as long as you're on RF!

 

[daniegrace]

This question "why did god create the world" is the whole reason i sought out this message board today.....
i always thought it was kind of odd that an all powerful god would create people just so we can worship him?
if he could create anything he/she/it wanted...why this place....dontcha think he could have come up with something better???
just asking

 

[Katzpur]

This question "why did god create the world" is the whole reason i sought out this message board today.....
i always thought it was kind of odd that an all powerful god would create people just so we can worship him?

Welcome, daniegrace. You'll find a lot of people here who don't think that's why He created us.

 

[trinity2359]

I always wondered why the earth is here, too. If the ultimate goal is heaven, why not just start there? Why bother with the whole earth with the pain and suffering? I think the LDS viewpoints offers a unique perspective. But I gotta humble myself and realize that we are here on earth and we gotta deal with that fact. Who can know the mind of God? Just follow Him and we'll get through.

 

[trinity2359]

I'm glad that you liked the excerpt from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I would also like to add that the Eastern Orthodox Church does view Adam/Eve as saints.

Really? I find that fascinating! How does the Roman Catholic Church handle them?

 

[Francine]

Really? I find that fascinating! How does the Roman Catholic Church handle them?

The oldest human being invoked in the Roman Catholic Litany of Saints is Abel.

 

[Starfish]

I always wondered why the earth is here, too. If the ultimate goal is heaven, why not just start there? Why bother with the whole earth with the pain and suffering? I think the LDS viewpoints offers a unique perspective. But I gotta humble myself and realize that we are here on earth and we gotta deal with that fact. Who can know the mind of God? Just follow Him and we'll get through.

Good question. But it sounds kind of like handing someone a diploma without sending them to school. It's not just the end result that's important, but also what we needed to learn and gain along the way.
I don't believe we'll arrive in heaven and just sit. We'll have a lot to do there and most of us need the experience and training we're getting here, to do it.

 

[Francine]

I don't believe we'll arrive in heaven and just sit. We'll have a lot to do there and most of us need the experience and training we're getting here, to do it.

Because all we did in the pre-existence is just sit.

 

[kadzbiz]

..... if he really was so loving why not just not create the world in the 1st place ....??

Perhaps it was an experiment.

Here's a brief version of an LDS answer: Before God created this world, we were all in a pre-existant world with him. ......

I just can't accept this idea at all. It's up there with the crazy idea of Xenu IMO.

 

[Te Deum]

Really? I find that fascinating! How does the Roman Catholic Church handle them?

Here is the information from the Catechism on the fall as well as on the Old Testament saints. The first section is an excerpt from the section on the Fall of Mankind into sin; I highly suggest reading the entire section.

Man's first sin

397 Man, tempted by the devil, let his trust in his Creator die in his heart and, abusing his freedom, disobeyed God's command. This is what man's first sin consisted of.278 All subsequent sin would be disobedience toward God and lack of trust in his goodness.


398 In that sin man preferred himself to God and by that very act scorned him. He chose himself over and against God, against the requirements of his creaturely status and therefore against his own good. Constituted in a state of holiness, man was destined to be fully "divinized" by God in glory. Seduced by the devil, he wanted to "be like God", but "without God, before God, and not in accordance with God".279


399 Scripture portrays the tragic consequences of this first disobedience. Adam and Eve immediately lose the grace of original holiness.280 They become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image - that of a God jealous of his prerogatives.281


400 The harmony in which they had found themselves, thanks to original justice, is now destroyed: the control of the soul's spiritual faculties over the body is shattered; the union of man and woman becomes subject to tensions, their relations henceforth marked by lust and domination.282 Harmony with creation is broken: visible creation has become alien and hostile to man.283 Because of man, creation is now subject "to its bondage to decay".284 Finally, the consequence explicitly foretold for this disobedience will come true: man will "return to the ground",285 for out of it he was taken. Death makes its entrance into human history.286


401 After that first sin, the world is virtually inundated by sin There is Cain's murder of his brother Abel and the universal corruption which follows in the wake of sin. Likewise, sin frequently manifests itself in the history of Israel, especially as infidelity to the God of the Covenant and as transgression of the Law of Moses. And even after Christ's atonement, sin raises its head in countless ways among Christians.287 Scripture and the Church's Tradition continually recall the presence and universality of sin in man's history:

What Revelation makes known to us is confirmed by our own experience. For when man looks into his own heart he finds that he is drawn towards what is wrong and sunk in many evils which cannot come from his good creator. Often refusing to acknowledge God as his source, man has also upset the relationship which should link him to his last end, and at the same time he has broken the right order that should reign within himself as well as between himself and other men and all creatures.288
The consequences of Adam's sin for humanity

402 All men are implicated in Adam's sin, as St. Paul affirms: "By one man's disobedience many (that is, all men) were made sinners": "sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned."289 The Apostle contrasts the universality of sin and death with the universality of salvation in Christ. "Then as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men."290


403 Following St. Paul, the Church has always taught that the overwhelming misery which oppresses men and their inclination towards evil and death cannot be understood apart from their connection with Adam's sin and the fact that he has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all born afflicted, a sin which is the "death of the soul".291 Because of this certainty of faith, the Church baptizes for the remission of sins even tiny infants who have not committed personal sin.292


404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam "as one body of one man".293 By this "unity of the human race" all men are implicated in Adam's sin, as all are implicated in Christ's justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" - a state and not an act.


405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the
character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ's grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.


406 The Church's teaching on the transmission of original sin was articulated more precisely in the fifth century, especially under the impulse of St. Augustine's reflections against Pelagianism, and in the sixteenth century, in opposition to the Protestant Reformation. Pelagius held that man could, by the natural power of free will and without the necessary help of God's grace, lead a morally good life; he thus reduced the influence of Adam's fault to bad example. The first Protestant reformers, on the contrary, taught that original sin has radically perverted man and destroyed his freedom; they identified the sin inherited by each man with the tendency to evil (concupiscentia), which would be insurmountable. The Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529)296 and at the Council of Trent (1546).297


Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 1 ARTICLE 1 PARAGRAPH 7

61 The patriarchs, prophets and certain other Old Testament figures have been and always will be honored as saints in all the Church's liturgical traditions.

In the Roman Catholic Church Adam is still considered a saint along with Eve and the prophets. However, he is also greatly remembered to be the cause of original sin - which he is. Although both Eastern Orthodox and Catholics view them as saints, there is a slight different angle with each approach.

Patron Saints Index: Adam

 

[blackout]

Why did God create the world in the first place?

Because Life is the most wonderful Creative endeavor there is.
God is Art, Artist, Canvas, Paint & Palate.

What does a creative sentient be-ing do ... if not create?
I would have to say "shut down".

 

[trinity2359]

Thanks Te Deum. I was curious, coming from an LDS background where Adam and Eve are revered for bringing the fall, and consequently, salvation to mankind. It is interesting to see that they don't have a monopoly on recognizing the faith of these two as not just the wretched persons who brought damnation to all our souls (i.e., a JW point of view).

 

[trinity2359]

Good question. But it sounds kind of like handing someone a diploma without sending them to school. It's not just the end result that's important, but also what we needed to learn and gain along the way.
I don't believe we'll arrive in heaven and just sit. We'll have a lot to do there and most of us need the experience and training we're getting here, to do it.

That was one thing I loved about LDS doctrine, is eternal progression. Not because I wanted to be god-like, but that I would always be learning something new and growing as an individual. I have way too many interests and too short of time to do all that I want to. And, as a Catholic, I still somehow doubt that God would want us praising him 24/7 in heaven (as if time exists there), he would want us doing more. What that is, we shall have to wait and see

 

[Katzpur]

That was one thing I loved about LDS doctrine, is eternal progression. Not because I wanted to be god-like, but that I would always be learning something new and growing as an individual.

You know, I think there are an awful lot of LDS who have any real desire to be godlike. I know that I have no desire to create worlds and be responsible for billions of souls struggling to figure out what their purpose of existance is, killing one another and fighting with one another over all sorts of inconsequential issues. Having raised two kids of my own, and loving them more than anything in the world, I've got to say that two was enough.

I have way too many interests and too short of time to do all that I want to. And, as a Catholic, I still somehow doubt that God would want us praising him 24/7 in heaven (as if time exists there), he would want us doing more. What that is, we shall have to wait and see

I, too, would be very disheartened to find that all God had in mind for me was to praise Him 24/7. Of course, I will be eternally grateful to Him for virtually everything He has ever given me, and particularly for the Atonement of His Son. But I can't fathom the idea that God would be so insecure that He would not want His Sons and daughters to become like Him. I can't think of a greater role model for any of us than God Himself, and if I were God, I can't think of any conceivable way my children could honor me than to want to become like me.

 

[Francine]

You know, I think there are an awful lot of LDS who have any real desire to be godlike. I know that I have no desire to create worlds and be responsible for billions of souls struggling to figure out what their purpose of existance is, killing one another and fighting with one another over all sorts of inconsequential issues. Having raised two kids of my own, and loving them more than anything in the world, I've got to say that two was enough.

"Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dur. And then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shone, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit. He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be.

In that hour of trial it was the love of his master that helped most to hold him firm; but also deep down in him lived still unconquered his plain hobbit-sense: he knew in the core of his heart that he was not large enough to bear such a burden, even if such visions were not a mere cheat to betray him. The one small garden of a free gardener was his need and due, not a garden swollen to the size of a realm; his own hands to use, not the hands of others to command." (Tolkien, Return of the King)