Why did God create us

[Brian2]

No, there are not. There is no geological evidence for a flood. I can assure you of that. If there is why didn't you post it? Is it because you would almost certainly be laughed at?


And the Epic of Gilgamesh was the story that the Hebrews copied during the Babylonian captivity. You should really study the history of the Bible.

It is just Biblical history guided by naturalistic methodology that comes up with the idea that the flood was copied from Gilgamesh.

If you don't know of any larger than usual floods then you should do your homework.
How about this site: http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Carol 1.pdf
or this site: Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth | National Center for Science Education

These sites suggest about 3000 BC, when the deep flood deposits are dated to and which it seems is about the time of the Biblical flood.

 

[Brian2]

Noah was locked up in a boat with deadly levels of methane in it. Or if you are British, youthane. He could not have witnessed anything. Nor was that part of the myth. At this point you are just making **** up.

And God is supposedly omnipresent, and omniscient. He wouldn't need any witnesses.

God uses people to warn others of God's message.
I suppose Noah could have opened the window to let in some fresh air.
Do you think that the ark was really full? They would have needed room for food. Maybe there were less animals than you think.
It's hard to say too much without making **** up it seems.

 

[Sheldon]

Mere words .. he explained his thoughts on the subject, and as per usual, you just start taking about evidence.

And as usual there isn't any, though bizarrely you think a request for evidence unreasonable in a debate, quelle surprise.

That is no debate .. a sincere person would acknowledge that a flood could have happened, if the account in the Bible is not accurate.

another absolute gem. You either don't understand what @Subduction Zone said, or you don't understand what you just said. He certainly isn't remotely claiming the biblical flood myth is accurate. Just that it never happened, and this is a falsifiable claim, that has been thoroughly falsified by multiple scientific fields.

but we all know why you don't properly engage with people. You don't want to.

Ad hominem, that didn't long again did it.

 

[Sheldon]

Subduction Zone said: ↑
It is your claim, you need to provide evidence. If I was looking up local flood I would merely keep saying "that can't be the flood"

Why would you keep saying that?

He shouldnt need to ever say it. Sadly too many apologists don't seem to understand.

 

[F1fan]

No, the naturalistic methodology brought into the study of Biblical history suggests that.

And this is why it is the only reliable approach. There is no alternative methodology to naturalism because no others ONLY follow the facts.

There are alternatives, like religious apvroa ches, but as we see they are highly unreliable and rely on assumptions that are not consistent with reality.

We agree that it was not a global flood then.

Tell your religious friends.

Hundreds of years ago there was no reason to say the flood was not global but science has helped us understand the true nature of the flood and to realise that the translation and interpretation of the Bible is probably not true.
The whole thing has been intertwined with the YEC and their need for young fossils in the sedimentary rocks of the earth.

Yup, the religious assumptions of the West's tradition are all wrong.

No I'm looking at the facts of geology and of Biblical translation and showing they can be harmonised into a smaller local instead of a global flood.

The approach of rational humans is ONLY science and facts. The tradition of religious belief is irrelevant. All it tells us is how theism is a social phenomenon that can negatively influence otherwise intelligent people. There is no reason to believe anything in the Genesis stories are true. At best they are embellished stories, or simly inventions, of natural phenomenon that anncient humans could not explain with facts.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is just Biblical history guided by naturalistic methodology that comes up with the idea that the flood was copied from Gilgamesh.

If you don't know of any larger than usual floods then you should do your homework.
How about this site: http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Carol 1.pdf
or this site: Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth | National Center for Science Education

These sites suggest about 3000 BC, when the deep flood deposits are dated to and which it seems is about the time of the Biblical flood.

Okay, That is actually probably the flood most likely to have inspired the myth that the Hebrews copied. And you have the problem that Noah and family could have walked away. Many of the people in that area could have walked away once it started. There was no need for animals on that boat. It would have only killed a very very small percentage of the human population even if people did not walk away. The problems with that as the Flood of Noah requite changes to the story that make it pointless.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God uses people to warn others of God's message.
I suppose Noah could have opened the window to let in some fresh air.
Do you think that the ark was really full? They would have needed room for food. Maybe there were less animals than you think.
It's hard to say too much without making **** up it seems.

You don't get it. You have a story that is constantly self contradicting. That is one way of knowing that it is false..


When you can come up with a story that does not endlessly contradict itself get back to me. Until that time the Noah's Ark myth is busted.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He shouldnt need to ever say it. Sadly too many apologists don't seem to understand.

To be a professional apologist one has to be willing to lie for Jesus at the drop of a hat. Unfortunately that causes many followers to use the same sort of arguments. They are usually not openly lying, but when they follow people that do openly lie it does look quite a bit as if they are.

You might have noticed a slight lack of respect for liar for Jesus, oops, I mean Christian apologists, on my part.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Not according to the Bible.

I have already said .. the OT is not accurate .. it is an ancient scripture that has been "revised" numerous times.
I assume you know that the OT is not a "Christian scripture" .. it is a Jewish one.
Furthermore, Genesis was written before Moses time.

If you are not familiar with the Qur'an then why not?
I thought that you "know it all" .. know that the Quran is just
been "copied" from the Bible.

Well, it is not so. It confirms the Bible, but not on every minute detail.

For example, in the OT, it is Isaac that Abraham was supposed to sacrifice [ Abraham saw in a dream], whereas in the Qur'an, it is Ishmael.
In the OT, usury is only forbidden to Jews, and not Christians/goy .. whereas in the Qur'an it is forbidden to demand usury from anybody.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have already said .. the OT is not accurate .. it is an ancient scripture that has been "revised" numerous times.

If you are not familiar with the Qur'an then why not?
I thought that you "know it all" .. know that the Quran is just
been "copied" from the Bible.

Well, it is not so. It confirms the Bible, but not on every minute detail.

For example, in the OT, it is Isaac that Abraham was supposed to sacrifice [ Abraham saw in a dream, whereas in the Qur'an, it is Ishmael.
In the OT, usury is only forbidden to Jews, and not Christians/goy .. whereas in the Qur'an it is forbidden to demand usury from anybody.

Okay, it is not accurate. Then why do you hang on to the mythical parts of it?

And no, I made no claims about the Quran. I do not know very much about the Quran besides it being a claimed holy book,. It does not appear to be the "word of God" but then no other holy book merits that title either. You made a claim about it that was refuted . That was all. That your claim was refuted did not refute the Quran. It was not even an attempt to refute the Quran on my part.

I do know a bit about the Bible. I grew up with it. I studied it. I have not done so for the Quran.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Okay, it is not accurate. Then why do you hang on to the mythical parts of it?

And no, I made no claims about the Quran. I do not know very much about the Quran besides it being a claimed holy book,.

OK .. if you are interested, here is a wiki article -> Noah in Islam - Wikipedia

 

[Subduction Zone]

OK .. if you are interested, here is a wiki article -> Noah in Islam - Wikipedia

Interesting It appears that the Quran tries to put some blame on Noah for this evil act:

"Noah's frustration at the defiance of his people led him to ask God to not leave even one sinner upon earth."

Also since according to the myth one of Noah's sons was a disbeliever and climbed a mountain to escape the flood and was still drowned. That tells us that in the Islamic tradition that it was a global flood. You see water tends to quickly flow out to the sea. It does not pile up like a heap of sand. To cover even a low mountain would take a flood that would be observable over the entire Earth and there is no evidence of such a flood.

This is an event that would have left clear evidence behind. We find evidence of much smaller and older floods. A younger more powerful one would have "overwritten" those older records. This is an example of a lack of evidence for being evidence against an event. Sometimes people misuse an adage and claim "A lack of evidence is not evidence against". That is incorrect. The correct saying is "A lack of evidence is not necessarily evidence against". The qualifier is very important. If you were told that the city hall in your town was blown up and you drove downtown and there was not one sign of an explosion, either damage, police cars, EMT's etc. then you would have very strong evidence against the original claim. There was no evidence for an event that would have clearly left evidence. The Flood is the same sort of event.

 

[muhammad_isa]

To cover even a low mountain would take a flood that would be observable over the entire Earth..

That would depend on the geography of the area..
I believe that it was somewhere in Mesopotamia.
[Modern day Iraq, Kuwait, Turkey and Syria.]

I believe that constant heavy rain flooding rivers and an area which is surrounded by mountains could be badly flooded, covering most of the area.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That would depend on the geography of the area..
I believe that it was somewhere in Mesopotamia.
[Modern day Iraq, Kuwait, Turkey and Syria.]

I believe that constant heavy rain flooding rivers and an area which is surrounded by mountains could be badly flooded, covering most of the area.

No, trust me. Water does not stack up. Try it. And freezing it would be cheating.

Have you ever been in a mountainous area? It does not sound like it. Mountainous areas do not flood except for the valleys. They drain very very quickly. A mountain river stream may flood, but those valleys tend to be very narrow. Climb up ten feet and you are safe. Water in a mountain stream can flow very very fast.

You can flood a low lying stream. But that again would be very limited in area. There was a flood in the Tigris Euphrates system that probably was the inspiration for the myth. or legend if you prefer. But again that would only affect some of the people in that valley. Some may have drowned but most probably just went uphill.

 

[Bird123]

I believe it is possible that God who has unlimited power, who can be everywhere simultaneously and is immortal would at some stage become bored.

All this knowledge in an empty void God decided to create the universe and all its contents, without it God would return to an empty void of suffering.

Because of the Joy his many creations bring he loves them deeply and created a storied universe with life on multiple planets in many universes and Dimensions and gave them free will.

Free will enables them to act independently of God and thus entertain thee.

I say Thee because surely God has No genitalia as breeding is not necessary when you create with thought, why would God have a body, hands to grasp are not required, legs to walk, just a thought and he can move.

the different races of different planets in different dimensions have Bodies designed to be vehicles that can physically react and manipulate their world.

It makes no sense that we would be cast in Gods image.

Man’s Ego is so great even though we acknowledge Gods power we imagine God as looking Human despite the fact we know he does need a vehicle to traverse our Planet.

Why did God create us? God created us because God knows what every parent knows. Children make life Grand!!

God did not create us for God. God created us for us. This physical universe was created for us as well. It's time-based causal nature is perfect for learning.

We are Spiritual Beings in our true natures. We are in God's image in that God is a Spiritual Being as well. We are all eternal. The physical really has nothing to do with this.

Bored?? Eternity is a very long time. On the other hand, Eternity does have Purpose.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[muhammad_isa]

You can flood a low lying stream. But that again would be very limited in area. There was a flood in the Tigris Euphrates system that probably was the inspiration for the myth. or legend if you prefer. But again that would only affect some of the people in that valley. Some may have drowned but most probably just went uphill.

That's just a guess..
I wouldn't want to be in extremely heavy rain without good shelter.
..particularly if it went on for days and days..

Anyhow, I believe it .. just like I believe that Pharaoh was drowned as he followed Moses across a river.
I believe in miracles and more.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's just a guess..
I wouldn't want to be in extremely heavy rain without good shelter.
..particularly if it went on for days and days..

Anyhow, I believe it .. just like I believe that Pharaoh was drowned as he followed Moses across a river.
I believe in miracles and more.

No, it is not a guess. I can tell that you have never been up in the mountains, much less studied a topo map of them.

Also the atmosphere can only hold so much water. I have also lived where it rains for forty days straight at times. When you go out you don't get terribly wet. You can have short intense storms. My brother was in the Houston area when they had a hurricane so bad that they were told over the public media not to call in unless it was an emergency. And since the water in their house did not quite come up to their knees it was not an "emergency".

There may be a factual basis for some of the stories in the first five books in the OT, but they are all legendary at best. You can believe in miracles or Hogwarts, but you need to consider what those supposed miracles tell us about your version of God. If you believe the myths of Genesis you believe in an evil, vain, and incompetent God. Why would you have that belief? Why believe that God is fine with unjustified genocide? Why believe in a God that is incompetent? Why believe in a God that is vain?

 

[muhammad_isa]

No, it is not a guess. I can tell that you have never been up in the mountains, much less studied a topo map of them.

Almighty God can do what He wants.
If He can create a universe, causing a serious flood is "nothing".

 

[Aupmanyav]

Well, India and Pakistan are facing serious flood problems at present. In some regions nothing less than Noah's flood, 'no patch of land is to be seen'.

Noah's Ark

 

[Subduction Zone]

Almighty God can do what He wants.
If He can create a universe, causing a serious flood is "nothing".

The problem is that you are also saying that he is dishonest. If there was a flood there would be evidence. To change thing, to cover them up as if they never happened, is the same as lying.

Worse yet it is not just the geological evidence that tells us that there was no flood. There is evidence from all of the sciences that it did not happen. If you want a refuted myth you cannot take one that has been more thoroughly debunked than the Noah's Ark myth.

If God can do anything why didn't he just kill the bad people? There was no need for a fake miracle and then to hide it in shame after the fact.