Why did God tempt Adam and Eve?

[Logos11]

All this well and good, and I could accept all of the above as a Baha'i, but it does not address the issue of 'Original Sin' and the 'Fall.'

Maybe your saying just accept it and believe, because of the above explanation?

And what exactly, is the issue of 'Original Sin' and the 'Fall' Please expound.

 

[shunyadragon]

And what exactly, is the issue of 'Original Sin' and the 'Fall' Please expound.

It described that humans were at some point in a fantasy world of Eden free of violence, death, pain and sin. Due to falling to temptation Adam and Eve cursed all their descendants with the burden of 'Original Sin,' pain, suffering, and death. This is a mythological fairy tale.

If the story is true, Adam and Eve as fallible human beings were set up to eventually fall to Temptation living in a garden with the ultimate 'cookie jar' and told do not eat of this tree, because . . .

 

[Logos11]

It described that humans were at some point in a fantasy world of Eden free of violence, death, pain and sin. Due to falling to temptation Adam and Eve cursed all their descendants with the burden of 'Original Sin,' pain, suffering, and death. This is a mythological fairy tale.

If the story is true, Adam and Eve as fallible human beings were set up to eventually fall to Temptation living in a garden with the ultimate 'cookie jar' and told do not eat of this tree, because . . .

Well if it pleases you to state it as they were 'set up' that's fine. However I prefer to say that they were tempted, and did not withstand temptation as free-moral agents. Now, any believer of the divinely revealed ancient records, known as the Holy Bible, would understand that God is omniscient and omnipotent; knowing the beginning from the end. This is known in Biblical terms as the 'foreknowledge' of God and the 'predestination' of God. 1 Peter 1:2 speaks of this as well as various other places. So it is established that nothing can 'surprise' God or happens by chance, but all occurs under the divine oversight and administration of Creator-God in accomplishing his thought and plan for all things created.

Now, I believe the Bible is a book that is designed in such a way that it is, a bit, encrypted. Everything is not always the way it may seem at first glance. "Father I thank thee that you have hidden these things from the wise and the prudent and revealed it unto babes such as would learn" The story of the Garden of Eden is often misunderstood by many. Now Paul, by all means, a New Testament prophet, was given by God the key and understanding to decrypt the ancient tale, and understood that the first man created by God was endued with divine wisdom (As seen in his naming of the animals and the assumed dominion over the earth) and glory, being made in the image and likeness of God. So in 1 Timothy 2:13-14, he says, "For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression"

Now, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" There is a reason why Paul expounds on the fact that the woman was created secondly. All the animals were created, male and female, separate creations. But man was different. God took a rib from Adam to create Eve. Did you know, that even in the human anatomy today, that the woman was one rib more than the man? With this different method, Eve was made of a different construct, a different vessel subject to different temptations. Why would the serpent tempt Eve and not Adam? Why is there no record in the Bible of the serpent tempting Adam? I am not saying he didn't, but it is not stated because if he did, it would not be relevant because he wouldn't succeed. The man could not be deceived, because he was made in the image and likeness of God, formed from the dust of the earth; the elements of his body welded together by the fingers of God. But the woman was different. She was formed different and given a lesser authority. So now if the man was not deceived, what could have possibly been a reason for the man partaking of the fruit? If not deception?

According to the Bible, there was a first Adam and a last Adam. 1 Corinthians 15:45 "The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." Romans 5:14 states that "Adam was a figure of him who was to come" The last Adam he is referring to here is Christ. He is called an 'Adam' because of his dominion over the powers of the earth and his perfect condition. So Adam, in type was a representation of Christ. So Adam, who was showing forth Christ in a type, became identified with his fallen Bride in sin and joined himself with his wife, in love, not willing to be separated from her in her punishment, bored her shame with her as Christ bored ours. "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." He was keeping his vows to his espoused Bride, in this great expression of love, a shadow of Christ and his Bride; his Church.

Now that the 'myth' was proven, identified and established through science and scriptural patterns. All in all, I would say that he allowed the 'Fall' so that he could make known himself to man, in a way that cannot be made known other than through experience. It's a great mystery of God's love, in redeeming fallen man. This is a holy order of God, because even in Hosea, he told his prophet to take a wife of the whoredoms and children of whoredoms. He could have just taught him about love and about himself, as a Saviour, but was putting him through an experience so that he may in the fullness comprehend, "the height and breadth of God's love" So the entire thing, is a mechanism and a method in which God makes known himself and his attributes to the human race, so that he may walk and have fellowship with them, because, "Can two walk together except they be agreed?" And in the end he will take his wife; his children; his Bride off to the marriage supper, and spend eternity with them, in love and fellowship. Cheers!
.

 

[Faithofchristian]

No God did not temp Adam and Eve.
It was the serpent,Satan who tempted Eve.

God for warned Adam way before Eve came to be, "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shalt not eat of it, for in the day that you eat thereof you shalt surely die" Genesis 2:16-17.

How many times did Adam pass by the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
It was only until Eve came to be, that the serpent,Satan deceived Eve into taking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Let's say you and your friend having loyalty to each other, but then one day your friend betrays that loyalty of yours.

What would you do?

It would be on that friend to show me that I could ever trust his loyalty again, As I once had or vice Versa.

Here's how it goes, Your choice is to pick which one will you give your loyalty too.
God or serpent,Satan ?

God choose to give you eternal life, for your obedience to Him.

Satan choose to give you eternal damnation in hell, for your obedience to him.

The two trees in the garden of Eden, were for Adam and Eve to make their choice as to God or serpent,Satan as to who they will be in obedience to.

As it turned out, Eve chosen to obye Satan and then she talk Adam into obeying Satan also.

Everyone is being tested of their loyalty of trust towards each other. Until one or the other betrays that loyalty.

Loyalty is easy to come by, but keeping that loyalty of trust is another question.

Even in marriage both have trust of loyalty towards each other, until one or the other breaks that trust of loyalty.

As with Adam and Eve, God had trust of loyalty, Until Adam and Eve broke that trust of loyalty.

As with you and your friend, Until you or your friend breaks that trust of loyalty.

As with the same in a Marriage, Until one or the other breaks that trust of loyalty.

 

[shunyadragon]

Well if it pleases you to state it as they were 'set up' that's fine. However I prefer to say that they were tempted, and did not withstand temptation as free-moral agents. Now, any believer of the divinely revealed ancient records, known as the Holy Bible, would understand that God is omniscient and omnipotent; knowing the beginning from the end. This is known in Biblical terms as the 'foreknowledge' of God and the 'predestination' of God. 1 Peter 1:2 speaks of this as well as various other places. So it is established that nothing can 'surprise' God or happens by chance, but all occurs under the divine oversight and administration of Creator-God in accomplishing his thought and plan for all things created.

Now, I believe the Bible is a book that is designed in such a way that it is, a bit, encrypted. Everything is not always the way it may seem at first glance. "Father I thank thee that you have hidden these things from the wise and the prudent and revealed it unto babes such as would learn" The story of the Garden of Eden is often misunderstood by many. Now Paul, by all means, a New Testament prophet, was given by God the key and understanding to decrypt the ancient tale, and understood that the first man created by God was endued with divine wisdom (As seen in his naming of the animals and the assumed dominion over the earth) and glory, being made in the image and likeness of God. So in 1 Timothy 2:13-14, he says, "For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression"

Now, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" There is a reason why Paul expounds on the fact that the woman was created secondly. All the animals were created, male and female, separate creations. But man was different. God took a rib from Adam to create Eve. Did you know, that even in the human anatomy today, that the woman was one rib more than the man? With this different method, Eve was made of a different construct, a different vessel subject to different temptations. Why would the serpent tempt Eve and not Adam? Why is there no record in the Bible of the serpent tempting Adam? I am not saying he didn't, but it is not stated because if he did, it would not be relevant because he wouldn't succeed. The man could not be deceived, because he was made in the image and likeness of God, formed from the dust of the earth; the elements of his body welded together by the fingers of God. But the woman was different. She was formed different and given a lesser authority. So now if the man was not deceived, what could have possibly been a reason for the man partaking of the fruit? If not deception?

According to the Bible, there was a first Adam and a last Adam. 1 Corinthians 15:45 "The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." Romans 5:14 states that "Adam was a figure of him who was to come" The last Adam he is referring to here is Christ. He is called an 'Adam' because of his dominion over the powers of the earth and his perfect condition. So Adam, in type was a representation of Christ. So Adam, who was showing forth Christ in a type, became identified with his fallen Bride in sin and joined himself with his wife, in love, not willing to be separated from her in her punishment, bored her shame with her as Christ bored ours. "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." He was keeping his vows to his espoused Bride, in this great expression of love, a shadow of Christ and his Bride; his Church.

Now that the 'myth' was proven, identified and established through science and scriptural patterns. All in all, I would say that he allowed the 'Fall' so that he could make known himself to man, in a way that cannot be made known other than through experience. It's a great mystery of God's love, in redeeming fallen man. This is a holy order of God, because even in Hosea, he told his prophet to take a wife of the whoredoms and children of whoredoms. He could have just taught him about love and about himself, as a Saviour, but was putting him through an experience so that he may in the fullness comprehend, "the height and breadth of God's love" So the entire thing, is a mechanism and a method in which God makes known himself and his attributes to the human race, so that he may walk and have fellowship with them, because, "Can two walk together except they be agreed?" And in the end he will take his wife; his children; his Bride off to the marriage supper, and spend eternity with them, in love and fellowship. Cheers!
.

Well . . . all this describes why you believe and claim, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness," which is terribly weak considering the known history of the Bible.

You fail to address the problem of inherited guilt, blaming two fallible humans for ALL the suffering, pain and death. for ALL of humanity in history. When ultimately God would be the responsible party for ALL the suffering pain, violence and death in the history of humanity in this ridiculous myth for thousands of years.

There is also a problem with this claim; "Now that the 'myth' was proven, identified and established through science and scriptural patterns."

Nothing here is established through science. Even the linguistic and archaeological evidence demonstrates that Genesis and Exodus are late edited and redacted compilations from mixed sources after ~600 BCE,

Also the science of the history of humanity demonstrate that there never was a time in the past in the over one million years of human history that the world was a idealic place with no suffering, pain and death. Also absolutely no evidence for a Biblical flood.

Please explain where the science is to justify this.

 

[shunyadragon]

No God did not temp Adam and Eve.
It was the serpent,Satan who tempted Eve.

God is ultimately responsible for everything, not a lesser God Satan. Placing the tree and telling two fallible humans about is indeed God tempting them, and blaming two fallible humans for ALL the suffering, pain and death of human in human history, with the archaic belief in 'inherited guilt.'

 

[Faithofchristian]

Well . . . all this describes why you believe and claim, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness," which is terribly weak considering the known history of the Bible.

You fail to address the problem of inherited guilt, blaming two fallible humans for ALL the suffering, pain and death. for ALL of humanity in history. When ultimately God would be the responsible party for ALL the suffering pain, violence and death in the history of humanity in this ridiculous myth for thousands of years.

There is also a problem with this claim; "Now that the 'myth' was proven, identified and established through science and scriptural patterns."

Nothing here is established through science. Even the linguistic and archaeological evidence demonstrates that Genesis and Exodus are late edited and redacted compilations from mixed sources after ~600 BCE,

Also the science of the history of humanity demonstrate that there never was a time in the past in the over one million years of human history that the world was a idealic place with no suffering, pain and death. Also absolutely no evidence for a Biblical flood.

Please explain where the science is to justify this.

Your like alot of people, have to put the blame on someone else, for all your troubles that you brought on yourself. When it's you own fault what happens in your life.

And as for Adam and Eve, No one force them to partake of the for bidden tree, what they did was of their own choice.
The same with you, no one forces to do anything, you make your choice's in life. Because you make a bad choice now you want to put the blame on someone else.

 

[Faithofchristian]

God is ultimately responsible for everything, not a lesser God Satan. Placing the tree and telling two fallible humans about is indeed God tempting them, and blaming two fallible humans for ALL the suffering, pain and death of human in human history, with the archaic belief in 'inherited guilt.'

No that is where your wrong at.
God is not responsible to what you do in your life.
As adult take responsibility for your own life, stop trying to put the blame on someone else, for what you do in your life.

 

[shunyadragon]

No that is where your wrong at.
God is not responsible to what you do in your life.
As adult take responsibility for your own life, stop trying to put the blame on someone else, for what you do in your life.

I never said God was responsible for what I do with my life. That is not an issue in this thread. Again . . .

God is ultimately responsible for everything, not a lesser God Satan. Placing the tree and telling two fallible humans about is indeed God tempting them, and blaming two fallible humans for ALL the suffering, pain and death of human in human history, with the archaic belief in 'inherited guilt.'

Do not dodge the problem of the claim of 'inherited guilt.' It has nothing to do with the free will question.

 

[Logos11]

Well . . . all this describes why you believe and claim, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness," which is terribly weak considering the known history of the Bible.

You fail to address the problem of inherited guilt, blaming two fallible humans for ALL the suffering, pain and death. for ALL of humanity in history. When ultimately God would be the responsible party for ALL the suffering pain, violence and death in the history of humanity in this ridiculous myth for thousands of years.

There is also a problem with this claim; "Now that the 'myth' was proven, identified and established through science and scriptural patterns."

Nothing here is established through science. Even the linguistic and archaeological evidence demonstrates that Genesis and Exodus are late edited and redacted compilations from mixed sources after ~600 BCE,

Also the science of the history of humanity demonstrate that there never was a time in the past in the over one million years of human history that the world was a idealic place with no suffering, pain and death. Also absolutely no evidence for a Biblical flood.

Please explain where the science is to justify this.

Son, I cannot sit and argue with those who refuse to lay aside their own unrefined opinions and just consider for a second that there may be something higher than their own thoughts. I have opened my mind and considered your thoughts and arguments, but it was simply the mind of a man never truly understanding the mind and ways of God. One desiring human explanations to comprehend divine things. I would explain my 'weak' claim and the issue of 'inherited guilt' , and the science in all this, but you would probably, in thy own understanding, try and discover a way to disprove truth. But truth is truth, and in the end, it will declare and vindicate itself. No hate, nor anger intended, simply my observation. I do hope your belief helps you accomplish and understand, all you will ever have need of in this life. God Bless!

 

[Kenny]

God is ultimately responsible for everything, not a lesser God Satan. Placing the tree and telling two fallible humans about is indeed God tempting them, and blaming two fallible humans for ALL the suffering, pain and death of human in human history, with the archaic belief in 'inherited guilt.'

That is your interpretation... to which there are many, including me, who disagree.

If God is responsible for everything then when one commits adultery, it is God's fault (which it isn't)

 

[Kenny]

I never said God was responsible for what I do with my life. That is not an issue in this thread. Again . . .

God is ultimately responsible for everything, not a lesser God Satan. Placing the tree and telling two fallible humans about is indeed God tempting them, and blaming two fallible humans for ALL the suffering, pain and death of human in human history, with the archaic belief in 'inherited guilt.'

Do not dodge the problem of the claim of 'inherited guilt.' It has nothing to do with the free will question.

Again, I disagree. Please show me where God tempted them. I though for sure it was whatever being was in the serpent.

 

[shunyadragon]

That is your interpretation... to which there are many, including me, who disagree.

If God is responsible for everything then when one commits adultery, it is God's fault (which it isn't)

No, you are clearly not reading the intent of my posts. God would be the ultimately responsible for the nature of our existence, and our human nature as it is, and as I said before, in a previous post and not the nature of human free will
It is bizzaro to blame two faulty fallible human beings for all the pain, suffering, death and sin of humanity as the 'inherited guilt of Original Sin.'

 

[shunyadragon]

Again, I disagree. Please show me where God tempted them. I though for sure it was whatever being was in the serpent.

God placed them in the Garden of Eden with the tree, which amounts to temptation, just like leaving the cookie jar on the table and telling young children not to touch it. The temptation remains as long as the tree and Adam and Eve are in the Garden. They are set up to eventually fail, simply because they are
Created by God as fallible human beings subject to temptation. Satan is just hanging around as the fall guy allowed by God.

I believe, and the evidence supports this, Genesis, the Creation narrative is an edited compilation based on older Babylonian and Canaanite/Ugarit myths, and the 'inherited guilt' concept is an archaic way explain evil and sin in ancient cultures like the Greeks, and the cultures Judaism evolved in. The concept of the flood is also in these cultures to explain natural disasters as the wrath of a vengeful God to punish sinful and disobedient tribes and cultures.

 

[DavidFirth]

Did God already know they would eat the fruit and listen to the serpent? Why put the fruit there in the first place or let the serpent into the garden?

Genesis 3:16 ►
New International Version
To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

This curse was given to you ladies for a crime you didn't commit. Why? Do you have Adam and Eve to thank or God?

We all are suffering from original sin...just read the news and you can see evidence for it.

Why did God want us to be so disordered, confused, and have such a fallen nature?

Why give Adam and Eve a test he knows they will fail , and then punish everyone for it?

Who are you to question the Almighty God?

It didn't work out so well for Job:

Job 40
2“Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?

Let him who accuses God answer him!”

3Then Job answered the Lord:

4“I am unworthy—how can I reply to you?

I put my hand over my mouth.

5I spoke once, but I have no answer—

twice, but I will say no more.”

6Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm:

7“Brace yourself like a man;

I will question you,

and you shall answer me.

8“Would you discredit my justice?

Would you condemn me to justify yourself?

9Do you have an arm like God’s,

and can your voice thunder like his?

10Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor,

and clothe yourself in honor and majesty.

11Unleash the fury of your wrath,

look at all who are proud and bring them low,

12look at all who are proud and humble them,

crush the wicked where they stand.

13Bury them all in the dust together;

shroud their faces in the grave.

14Then I myself will admit to you

that your own right hand can save you.

 

[shunyadragon]

Who are you to question the Almighty God?

It didn't work out so well for Job:

Job 40
2“Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?

Let him who accuses God answer him!”

3Then Job answered the Lord:

4“I am unworthy—how can I reply to you?

I put my hand over my mouth.

5I spoke once, but I have no answer—

twice, but I will say no more.”

6Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm:

7“Brace yourself like a man;

I will question you,

and you shall answer me.

8“Would you discredit my justice?

Would you condemn me to justify yourself?

9Do you have an arm like God’s,

and can your voice thunder like his?

10Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor,

and clothe yourself in honor and majesty.

11Unleash the fury of your wrath,

look at all who are proud and bring them low,

12look at all who are proud and humble them,

crush the wicked where they stand.

13Bury them all in the dust together;

shroud their faces in the grave.

14Then I myself will admit to you

that your own right hand can save you.

I do not question God, I just do not believe in archaic views plagued with mythical views of God.

 

[Kenny]

No, you are clearly not reading the intent of my posts. God would be the ultimately responsible for the nature of our existence, and our human nature as it is, and as I said before, in a previous post and not the nature of human free will

Ok... let me slow this down a little and make sure I understand...

I agree with the bold part...

but how "not the nature of human free will?

It is bizzaro to blame two faulty fallible human beings for all the pain, suffering, death and sin of humanity as the 'inherited guilt of Original Sin.'

I agree, in principle. The two are not at fault for all the pain and suffering, but they did open the door for all the pain in suffering... are we ok with that?

 

[DavidFirth]

I do not question God, I just do not believe in archaic views plagued with mythical views of God.

Really, that post was meant for PopeADope.

 

[Kenny]

God placed them in the Garden of Eden with the tree, which amounts to temptation, just like leaving the cookie jar on the table and telling young children not to touch it. The temptation remains as long as the tree and Adam and Eve are in the Garden. They are set up to eventually fail, simply because they arenCreated by God as fallible human beings subject to temptation. Satan is just hanging around as the fall guy allowed by God.

Ohhhhh... I got it. When I get married and my wife tells me that I should have no other woman and not touch another woman, then it is she that tempts me if I lay with another because she took me to the beach where a lot of woman are at.

Got it!

I believe, and the evidence supports this, Genesis, the Creation narrative is an edited compilation based on older Babylonian and Canaanite/Ugarit myths, and the 'inherited guilt' concept is an archaic way explain evil and sin in ancient cultures like the Greeks, and the cultures Judaism evolved in. The concept of the flood is also in these cultures to explain natural disasters as the wrath of a vengeful God to punish sinful and disobedient tribes and cultures.

That is an opinion. IMV there is a problem with that.

It Genesis is a myth, then all of the begats are made up and each story that was added was added as a fictional progressive story. I just don't hold to that viewpoint.

But you are welcome to believe it is, but let it be known that you certainly aren't speaking from a position of authority.

 

[shunyadragon]

Ohhhhh... I got it. When I get married and my wife tells me that I should have no other woman and not touch another woman, then it is she that tempts me if I lay with another because she took me to the beach where a lot of woman are at.

Got it!

No you do not got it! You were not placed in the Garden of Eden with the tree that if you succumbed to the temptation and ate of the tree you would condemn all humanity (inherited guilt) with suffering, pain and earth. In fact all the animal kingdom turns to violence.

This has absolutely nothing to with the present potential of humans to make decisions of right and wrong or good and evil, except as claimed the 'Fall' and Original Sin' puts you in the world cursed by Adam and Eve's Fall.

It Genesis is a myth, then all of the begats are made up and each story that was added was added as a fictional progressive story. I just don't hold to that viewpoint.

That is what the evidence indicates. In fact all those begats are problematic in the light of real historical and archaelogical evidence

But you are welcome to believe it is, but let it be known that you certainly aren't speaking from a position of authority.

Neither are you, unfortunately my view is supported by historical, archaeological, and paleontology of the history of humanity.