Why did the Jews reject their Messiah when he DID come?

[sooda]

Unless I Googled it, I would have no idea who Cyrus Scofield is.
Remember, no book was considered biblical canon after the restoration of
the temple after Babylon - not even Maccabees.
Daniel was written during Babylonian times. It certainly has been pushed
and shoved around somewhat since then - but its basic text is sound. And
Daniel has a vision of the Messiah coming to his temple while it still stands,
and it is this Messiah which would be "cut off" by Rome. Such texts offended
many Jews who felt the Messiah should be the liberator of its enemies, not
its victim.

No, according to most scholars, Daniel was never in Babylon at all. The book was written during the Maccabean war. Daniel is not considered a prophet.. Its a history and the reason it was written was to encourage the Jews who were suffering under Antiochus.. You really should learn some history.. You have been completely deceived by Scofield.

The Temple was restored after the Babylonian exile. Historically that is true. David Koresh tried to claim Daniel was prophesy .. Lots of bad theology brought to you by Scofield and the Dallas Theological Seminary.

 

[PruePhillip]

No Daniel was never in Babylon at all. The book was written during the Maccabean war. Daniel is not considered a prophet.. Its a history and the reason it was written was to encourage the Jews who were suffering under Antiochus.. You really should learn some history.. You have been completely deceived by Scofield.

The Temple was restored after the Babylonian exile. Historically that is true. David Koresh tried to claim Daniel was prophesy .. Lots of bad theology brought to you by Scofield and the Dallas Theological Seminary.

I think Daniel used the word "Nebuchadnezzar", not "Antiochus"
I doubt Babylonian captivity was a metaphor for marauding Greeks.
And who do YOU think "cut off" the Messiah?

 

[sooda]

I think Daniel used the word "Nebuchadnezzar", not "Antiochus"
I doubt Babylonian captivity was a metaphor for marauding Greeks.
And who do YOU think "cut off" the Messiah?

The Babylonian exile was real enough, but "Daniel" was never in Babylon.

"After the 62 weeks, Messiah will be cut off but not for Himself; and the holy city shall be destroyed (by) the people of the coming prince and its end shall be in haste unto the end of war and its determined desolation." Daniel 9:26

The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD (that's 62 weeks from the beginning of the war) and Masada fell in 74 AD.

The people of the prince of the 70th week of Daniel 9 is pointing to Messiah causing Titus and his army to desolate, not an end times antichrist.

 

[PruePhillip]

The Babylonian exile was real enough, but "Daniel" was never in Babylon.

"After the 62 weeks, Messiah will be cut off but not for Himself; and the holy city shall be destroyed (by) the people of the coming prince and its end shall be in haste unto the end of war and its determined desolation." Daniel 9:26

The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD (that's 62 weeks from the beginning of the war) and Masada fell in 74 AD.

The people of the prince of the 70th week of Daniel 9 is pointing to Messiah causing Titus and his army to desolate, not an end times antichrist.

People make too much of the AD70 thing. It's main claim to fame was the destruction of the temple.
But it was only the first of three such wars - there's Kitos and Bar Kochbar wars, if I spelt them right.
The people of the prince destroyed the holy city and the Messiah.
Forget that seventy weeks rubbish - it's too vague, contradictory and symbolic to make sense of.
But for sure, the enemy which destroyed the Messiah also destroyed the temple - they didn't just
profane it, they brought it fully to the ground. Not even Babylonians did that.

 

[sooda]

People make too much of the AD70 thing. It's main claim to fame was the destruction of the temple.
But it was only the first of three such wars - there's Kitos and Bar Kochbar wars, if I spelt them right.
The people of the prince destroyed the holy city and the Messiah.
Forget that seventy weeks rubbish - it's too vague, contradictory and symbolic to make sense of.
But for sure, the enemy which destroyed the Messiah also destroyed the temple - they didn't just
profane it, they brought it fully to the ground. Not even Babylonians did that.

Antiochus defiled the Jewish temple.

 

[PruePhillip]

Antiochus defiled the Jewish temple.

And all the Jews had to do was ceremoniously clean it.
Rome burned and then pulled down the temple - and built over the top
of it. This is what Daniel alluded to when he said "while the temple still
stands" (if I recall the wording.)

 

[sooda]

And all the Jews had to do was ceremoniously clean it.
Rome burned and then pulled down the temple - and built over the top
of it. This is what Daniel alluded to when he said "while the temple still
stands" (if I recall the wording.)

You may want to read up on what Antiochus did... He did more than defile the Temple. What did Rome build over the Temple?

 

[PruePhillip]

You may want to read up on what Antiochus did... He did more than defile the Temple. What did Rome build over the Temple?

Rome built a whole city over Jerusalem. I think they put a Roman temple on the
mount - but can't remember.

 

[sooda]

Rome built a whole city over Jerusalem. I think they put a Roman temple on the
mount - but can't remember.

They didn't build over Temple Mount.. When Omar arrived it was the city dump.The Christian population didn't care about the Temple site and the Jews had been expelled from the city much earlier.

 

[PruePhillip]

They didn't build over Temple Mount.. When Omar arrived it was the city dump.The Christian population didn't care about the Temple site and the Jews had been expelled from the city much earlier.

That makes sense. I think the rock over the Dome of the Rock points to the exact point of the Holiest
of Holies. If you believe that stuff.
One researcher in Biblical Archaeology claimed to identify the pole positions for the ark, cut into the
rock. But of course, if the Exodus account was written in Greek times, and from imagination .....

 

[sooda]

That makes sense. I think the rock over the Dome of the Rock points to the exact point of the Holiest
of Holies. If you believe that stuff.
One researcher in Biblical Archaeology claimed to identify the pole positions for the ark, cut into the
rock. But of course, if the Exodus account was written in Greek times, and from imagination .....

Ron Wyatt wasn't an archaeologist.. He was a con man.

 

[PruePhillip]

Ron Wyatt wasn't an archaeologist.. He was a con man.

Not sure who Ron Wyatt is.
Is he the one who wrote about the ark? I think the Muslims believe the Dome
sits over the old Temple, and preserves some of the rock.

 

[sooda]

Not sure who Ron Wyatt is.
Is he the one who wrote about the ark? I think the Muslims believe the Dome
sits over the old Temple, and preserves some of the rock.

Yes, Muslims believe they built the Al Aksa Mosque where the temple had stood.. The History of the Temple in Jerusalem lasted off and on for 400 years. The Muslim Mosque is 1300 years old.

Wyatt is the one who claims he found the ark of the covenant and the pharaoh's chariot wheels.

 

[sooda]

Not sure who Ron Wyatt is.
Is he the one who wrote about the ark? I think the Muslims believe the Dome
sits over the old Temple, and preserves some of the rock.

Yes, Muslims believe they built the Al Aksa Mosque where the temple had stood.. The History of the Temple in Jerusalem lasted off and on for 400 years. The Muslim Mosque is 1300 years old.

Wyatt is the one who claims he found the ark of the covenant and the pharaoh's chariot wheels.

 

[sooda]

Not sure who Ron Wyatt is.
Is he the one who wrote about the ark? I think the Muslims believe the Dome
sits over the old Temple, and preserves some of the rock.

Yes, Muslims believe they built the Al Aksa Mosque where the temple had stood.. The History of the Temple in Jerusalem lasted off and on for 400 years. The Muslim Mosque is 1300 years old.

Wyatt is the one who claims he found the ark of the covenant and the pharaoh's chariot wheels.

 

[sooda]

Not sure who Ron Wyatt is.
Is he the one who wrote about the ark? I think the Muslims believe the Dome
sits over the old Temple, and preserves some of the rock.

Yes, Muslims believe they built the Al Aksa Mosque where the temple had stood.. The History of the Temple in Jerusalem lasted off and on for 400 years. The Muslim Mosque is 1300 years old.

Wyatt is the one who claims he found the ark of the covenant and the pharaoh's chariot wheels.

 

[PruePhillip]

Yes, Muslims believe they built the Al Aksa Mosque where the temple had stood.. The History of the Temple in Jerusalem lasted off and on for 400 years. The Muslim Mosque is 1300 years old.

Wyatt is the one who claims he found the ark of the covenant and the pharaoh's chariot wheels.

Okay. That's obviously nonsense.
The Ark was carried on two long poles. It had to be born by men, not beast of burden
as David discovered.
When the Ark was placed in the Holiest of Holies the poles were intact.
There is some evidence of channels cut into the rock where the Holiest is thought
to have been. These could have been where the Ark was laid.

BTW the bible routinely condemned the Jews. It detailed the exile of the ten tribes
and the destruction of the first temple. It detailed the Philistine capture of the Ark.
It doesn't mention the loss of the Ark.

the bible doesn't say "Babylon took away the Ark" nor does it say "The priests hid
the Ark."
That suggests to me that the authors of the bible are mum about the whereabouts
of the Ark. And it suggests, Raiders of the Ark style, that it could turn up one day -
maybe when the temple mount is in Jewish hands again.

More fantastic things have happened, ie the return of the Jews to Israel.

 

[roger1440]

First up, the way your question is phased makes it impossible to answer. Judging from your posts Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. I have a question for you and any Jew, Christian or anyone who took the time to read the about this prophecy. Define the Jewish Messiah.

 

[sooda]

First up, the way your question is phased makes it impossible to answer. Judging from your posts Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. I have a question for you and any Jew, Christian or anyone who took the time to read the about this prophecy. Define the Jewish Messiah.

A litter is two poles carried by two men.. or it could be trash or a bunch of baby kittens.

The Messiah was expected to be an anointed king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews.

 

[roger1440]

A litter is two poles carried by two men.. or it could be trash or a bunch of baby kittens.

The Messiah was expected to be an anointed king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews.

“…who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews.” Doesn’t the Bible say if the Jews obey God’s teaching, God will define them from their enemies. Could it be the Messiah doesn’t “vanquish the enemies of the Jews”, he makes it known to the Jews God’s teaching will “vanquish the enemies of the Jews”?