call-u-twice
Member
If all according Advaita Vedanta there is no seperation between us and the whole when we come to realization why did we become separated in the first place and is not this illusion also bart of Brahman?
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Why did we become separated?
- Thread starter call-u-twice
- Start date
Maya3
Well-Known Member
That is the question isn't it
We feel separated because we identify with our bodies instead of who we truly are?
The illusion will dissolve when you remember that you are part of everything.
Maya
aewbarnes
Andy Barnes
Brahman requires duality in order to express itself as for something to be expressed, there has to be witness to that expression. so there needs to be differentiation. This and that. An awareness of sorts of this differentiation is a necessary part of survival, on all levels of being. The chemical 'knows' it is a certain type so that it can act and react as it's nature dictates and so it is up the levels of consciousness.
We are able to recognise and contemplate this fact and so come slowly to also see our illusory seperation on the more subtle, non-mundane level and so begin the journey back to the realiseation of the at-one-ment that has always been.
We are able to recognise and contemplate this fact and so come slowly to also see our illusory seperation on the more subtle, non-mundane level and so begin the journey back to the realiseation of the at-one-ment that has always been.
What I am wrestling with, and cannot for the life of me understand, is why Brahman needs to "experience" or express itself. Brahman is beyond all expression and attributes. If we ourselves are Brahman, why do we choose or need to experience our own creation? And what is the purpose of creation and māyā? Recreation and play of Brahman as Shankaracharya said? I can't get my head around this. For that reason, and I know I'm no scholar, Advaita makes no sense to me.
Spirit throws itself out into the world in an act of outpouring, an involution down the chain to the most simple state of being, into forgetfulness, into slumber. Evolution is the return back to the Source, in ever-awakening stages until full remembrance. It is the movements of Spirit. Why? Because.
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chinu
chinu
Because at that first place, "We ourself" (god) decided to realize the sepration.
And at same time, "We ourself" (god) decided to realize the oneness after spending some time in sepration.
Who planned this game ?
We ourself, or God, at that first place.
Thus.. Don't worry you will realize the oneness, but.. for the mean time.. you are in sepration.
Yes this illusion also bart of brahman.
aewbarnes
Andy Barnes
I would say that your struggle is healthy and is perhaps an important part of our journey towards moksha/nibbana. It is in the very nature of Brahman to be unknowable until we reach enlightenment and this need for differentiation is one of many questions that I, for one, have yet to understand. I can simply take the counsel of the sages of times gone past and keep searching within for my own experience of some answers. I do know that to date, my own experiences thru meditation, observation of life and study have to date rarely contradict the wisdom in the Vedas and also in most of the Buddhist tripitaka. Blind adherence to any spiritual or philosophical tradition does no-one any good so I always keep in mind Buddhas injunction to only pay heed to that which we have gone out and proved for ourselves. at the same time, however, I never dismiss that which I haven't experienced as this may come in time. It works for me.
Maya3
Well-Known Member
It´s the eternal question. It´s hard to know why.
Maybe there is no reason, maybe if the right conditions are there we start to manifest. It´s really hard to know what is going on.
But I see no better explanation to what we are than Science and Advaita. I know that I´m here so something must have happened to have gotten me here.
Maya
chinu
chinu
It changes the view of things that you see all around you, and it gives the ability to stay away from this dustbin (body) after death, and before death too.
Well, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one.
This is true. I keep this quotation from the Buddha in mind:
Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.
I don't know why I dwell on it, perhaps it's my ocpd. I should take my own advice in my thread about Information Overload. Maybe how Advaita, creation and māyā work is really of no consequence viz. seeking liberation or enlightenment unless one is on the path of jnana yoga rather than bhakti yoga. Lord Buddha did say that to contemplate these things are obstacles to achieving enlightenment, counterintuitive as it may sound. Even Sri Krishna said in B.G. chapter 10, in modern terms "don't worry how I do it, just consider My power":
39. Of all beings I am the seed, O Arjuna. Whatever exists in this world, living or non-living, none of them can be, if I were not.
40. O great warrior! There is no end to my divine manifestations. What I have expounded forms only a few of them by way of examples.
41. Whatever there is endowed with extraordinary glory, attractiveness and vigour, know all that to be born of a fragment of My power.
42. But then, of what avail is this detailed understanding of my manifestations to you, O Arjuna! Supporting this mighty universe with but one single fragment of My self, I remain unchanged and transcendent.
I think the important point you raised is to not try to understand. This does not mean that understandings don't open to you on your path, but that to try to penetrate it with the mind is to place that mind in the position of God. It is like trying to fly with your feet. Higher mind informs lower mind. The quest is not to understand, but to find higher mind.
Greetings chinu!
I was wondering, if we did choose to realize separation at first, then is it wrong to prefer "oneness" over "separation"? In other words, there's no particular reason to proclaim that "oneness" is more true than "separation" and visa-versa. I do see the value in shifting perspectives between both, however. Perhaps that is the purpose of the game?
And not long after I posted that, I was jumping around on the 'net and came across what I posted here: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/vedanta-dir/145208-now-makes-sense-me-if-i.html As I was reading it, it hit me like Indra's vajra, out of the blue.
chinu
chinu
One cannot choose oneness after stepping into separation, Because.. both sepraration and re-oneness where decided.. before all this beganed, ..or before the separation, ..or at first.
It is the brain that thinks we are seperate. So the brains are the "we" here. Brahman is just fine. Bramhan simply IS. Pure Innocence . That is Bramhan.
Why does the heart beat?
Why do we bat our eyelids?
Why do birds fly?
Why does the earth go around the Sun?
Why does the Sun set?
Why is the moon so pretty?
Why do we breathe?
Why do we exchange thoughts?
Why are we made of cells?
Why is the ocean water constantly moving and splashing ? Waves, high-tide and low tide.
Why is the tiniest part of the Universe a very similar fractal to the entire Bramhānḍa?
fractals fractals fractals
Now we cannot hold Bramhan' in custody and interrogate Him can we?
Bramhan! Answer me. Why are You ... we ....eṛṛ... You-we like this ??
____________
ameyAtmA
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NobodyYouKnow
Misanthropist
I'm just sticking my head in and saying 'yeah, that', like only I would. :yes:
I am just so predictable. lol
