Why Didn't the Universe Always Exist?

[Pogo]

Look at our star system. Take a point above the Earth and draw a line through the north pole along the spin axis so it comes out the south pole to below the globe. Now this line can be extended in both directions north and south respectively. Fwiw, in the north direction, the North Star would sit almost directly on this line, but it won't always stay north.

This is at best true from the perspective of our arbitrary definition of direction on earth which is convenient in a historical sense. There is no actual direction on a sphere beyond what is defined for convenience. To extrapolate from this to some universal direction is a total misunderstanding of the mathematics of a sphere. We could for example base our directions on the current magnetic poles which are close to what we call North and South but have moved significantly in my lifetime and even reversed in the past. Analogies are useful for leading one to concepts some times, but they are not reality just as common sense is often mistaken.

 

[Pogo]

No .. I have a methodical approach to both science and philosophy.
I question all .. not blindly follow.

Fine I commend you, and when you can demonstrate your philosophy to me beyond your subjective understanding I will consider it in a scientific sense.

 

[Pogo]

Ahem, there was no Earth BB beginning.

Which means what? Are you understanding that in the limits of our understanding of our current universe beginning is largely an unanswerable question at the limit of our math. or do you claim to have more knowledge? If so communicate it in a way that we can evaluate it for ourselves without just accepting your subjective understanding.

 

[Pogo]

Then we don't exist, so this is what nothing looks like!

Quit with the massaging of colloquial word meanings, it is no way to communicate.

Yeah, Right.

 

[Yerda]

How convenient .. and what is "the very start" ?

Nobody knows or has any idea about how we could know. My guess is the universe is eternal.

 

[YoursTrue]

This is at best true from the perspective of our arbitrary definition of direction on earth which is convenient in a historical sense. There is no actual direction on a sphere beyond what is defined for convenience. To extrapolate from this to some universal direction is a total misunderstanding of the mathematics of a sphere. We could for example base our directions on the current magnetic poles which are close to what we call North and South but have moved significantly in my lifetime and even reversed in the past. Analogies are useful for leading one to concepts some times, but they are not reality just as common sense is often mistaken.

Etc and etc. and the beat goes on...

 

[Pogo]

So what does this god you don't believe in look like, describe it? Perhaps I would not believe it exists too?

When asked if I can define a god, I generally imagine it as the snarky kid in the back of the god HS who likes playing with the idea of creating universes like ours just to see what these silly creations will believe.
It fulfills all of the criteria of a god but beyond that, I see no reason to believe it exists.
Can you actually do better?

oh, it probably has a mullet.

 

[Pogo]

To explain the world we live in is another story.

We are waiting for yours for how long now? Yes we know you think there is some other answer, but you never present it. LOL why am I even responding to you?

 

[YoursTrue]

Which means what? Are you understanding that in the limits of our understanding of our current universe beginning is largely an unanswerable question at the limit of our math. or do you claim to have more knowledge? If so communicate it in a way that we can evaluate it for ourselves without just accepting your subjective understanding.

So you know? Who could even understand your philosophical language much less figure what the universe physically came from and how it happened scientifically, of course.

 

[Pogo]

So you know? Who could even understand your philosophical language much less figure what the universe physically came from and how it happened scientifically, of course.

Huh?

 

[YoursTrue]

We are waiting for yours for how long now? Yes we know you think there is some other answer, but you never present it. LOL why am I even responding to you?

Answering your question there...Because you want to.

 

[YoursTrue]

Huh?

Righto...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That makes no sense at all to an atheist like me. The verb create is not relevant to the BB as such. There are other ways to phrase such a question.

Ok. I will rephrase it. What or who caused the BB, and why?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That is not a proper question. First it assumes agency by using the word "created". Second why assume that it had to have a start? One possibility is that that the universe simply is. And it is eternal with a beginning. That idea is not self contradictory. Your question cannot be properly answered as asked. It is an example of an improperly asked question.

So I will rephrase it. What or who caused the BB and why?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Of course, but most scientists believe otherwise.

Do they now? I am not so sure about that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So I will rephrase it. What or who caused the BB and why?

We don't know yet. It could have been a god but there is no evidence either way on it. There does not appear to be any need for a god.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

This is at best true from the perspective of our arbitrary definition of direction on earth which is convenient in a historical sense. There is no actual direction on a sphere beyond what is defined for convenience. To extrapolate from this to some universal direction is a total misunderstanding of the mathematics of a sphere. We could for example base our directions on the current magnetic poles which are close to what we call North and South but have moved significantly in my lifetime and even reversed in the past. Analogies are useful for leading one to concepts some times, but they are not reality just as common sense is often mistaken.

So your point is? The concept of direction does not imply a specific place in the direction unless specified, it is just that, a direction, and yes, names of the direction can be arbitrary.

 

[Pogo]

So your point is? The concept of direction does not imply a specific place in the direction unless specified, it is just that, a direction, and yes, names of the direction can be arbitrary.

Yeah basically, your assumptions of the significance of a direction of south beyond the arbitrarily defined point on a sphere is meaningless.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Which means what? Are you understanding that in the limits of our understanding of our current universe beginning is largely an unanswerable question at the limit of our math. or do you claim to have more knowledge? If so communicate it in a way that we can evaluate it for ourselves without just accepting your subjective understanding.

The question is, what or who caused the BB, if there even was one, and why?

Yes, so far as I understand it, the universe is eternal, it was never created, but everything in it is a creation, such as galaxies, stars, planets, people, atoms, electron, etc.. All these creations have beginnings and endings, eternally.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yeah basically, your assumptions of the significance of a direction of south beyond the arbitrarily defined point on a sphere is meaningless.

Because you are a devotee of the BB belief system, which has existence existing due to nothing that is known.