Why Do Bad Things Happen to Good People?

[JayJayDee]

So eating of human excreta and not giving authority to women over men divine? I hardly think so.

Can I ask you to explain that first one????

And as for the second one, headship is God's arrangement. Headship is not dictatorship. (1 Cor 11:3) It is like any co-operation of individuals....if one person bears responsibility for the decisions, after consultation with the others, things tend to work out better. What is the old saying? "too many cooks spoil the broth".
Too may heads in a family create a monster.

A motor vehicle only has one driver for very good reasons. If there were two sets of controls, it would never result in a safe journey.

In the family, as in the congregation, women are created for a supportive role, not a leading one. This was so from the beginning. By making the man the head of his family, the buck stopped with him. It made him consider everyone in the family unit, not just himself, since he was responsible for the welfare of the unit as a whole.

The congregation operated on the same premise. Men were to take the lead in teaching in the congregation, whilst the women did a lot of teaching outside the congregation. Since all Christians were to be preachers of the good news, there were many who wanted to learn. In Bible times, when women were not the breadwinners, they had the time to teach those they had preached to, whereas the men were taking care of looking after their family's material welfare, putting bread on the table. Often having to provide for many mouths.

There is no denigration of women in God's word. Just because some men took Paul's words the wrong way, and saw it as an excuse to wield power, doesn't make his admonition wrong.
If everyone keeps to their assigned role, things works out very well for all family members.

 

[JayJayDee]

Prophet Ezekiel was asked to do so.

I am not familiar with the account, can you provide it? I know that some of God's prophets were asked to do some strange things at times, but they were highly symbolic and connected to the prophesy he had them deliver.

So why can't women be in charge so that they can also consider men as their helpers and co-operators? Slightly demeaning isn't it? And it's not Paul I am referring to. God has said in the OT that women are not to rule. A forum member pointed it out after I talked about Prophet Deborah.

It's about respecting God's arrangement. If he has placed women in a support role, then those who chafe under such a situation have no place in his arrangement for worship. Women are used extensively in the scriptures and there is no denigration regarding their gender. The prophetess Deborah is an example. God will not alter his ways of doing things for anyone. It is we who must make adjustments to bring our lives into line with him. He is God, so he gets to make the rules. :yes:

I have already explained why headship is not intended to be dictatorship, and was even in place before the fall, so if you cannot accept it, that is entirely up to you. Men are placed in positions of authority by God and I don't know of any woman who truly loves God who has a problem with that. It demonstrates a lack of humility actually. It is when genders roles are out of place that problems begin. I have great respect for God's ways and I have observed first hand that they make for peace.

 

[Draupadi]

OK when I will have Net on PC I will provide the verse. But I should say that one shouldn't go OTT with symbolism when plain direct stating of the facts will do. And you have basically repeated the same thing about God giving men authority over women. The reason is faith. I don't buy it but it's OK .

 

[JayJayDee]

But I should say that one shouldn't go OTT with symbolism when plain direct stating of the facts will do. And you have basically repeated the same thing about God giving men authority over women. The reason is faith. I don't buy it but it's OK .

This is why God gives us the choice to obey him or to reject him. Free will means that it is our own choices made by the dictates of of our own heart that determines our future.

God does not have to judge us....it is we who judge ourselves.

We either love God and humble ourselves before him or we love ourselves and want to dictate to God what we think he should do.

Your statement above......"But I should say that one shouldn't go OTT with symbolism when plain direct stating of the facts will do"....demonstrates what I mean. You are telling God that he shouldn't make symbolism because you believe that stating plain facts is your preference. Are you telling the Creator how to behave? Who are we as mere humans to tell God how to do anything?

 

[Draupadi]

When God (or anybody for the matter) does something illogical we should stand up. The more because He is God. Blind faith never worked for me.

Ask anyone around. Which is more clear symbolisms or plain facts? Does it befit a God to play like this with our mind?

 

[Draupadi]

Ezekiel 4 NIV

Here is the verse.

 

[JayJayDee]

When God (or anybody for the matter) does something illogical we should stand up. The more because He is God. Blind faith never worked for me.

Ask anyone around. Which is more clear symbolisms or plain facts? Does it befit a God to play like this with our mind?

Define illogical.

If something is logical to God, who are we humans to tell him he is being illogical, because we don't understand the significance of the action. He is God and he will do as he sees fit. He doesn't need our permission to do what he needs to do. His prophets did perform strange ritual at his request at times, but the symbolism was obviously important otherwise he would not have asked them to do it.

Ezekiel 4 is not about eating human excrement. It was cakes made using dried excrement for fuel to bake them. When Ezekiel protested that it he had never eaten unclean things, God made a concession to him to bake the cakes using dried cow dung instead. There was no eating of any excrement.

 

[Draupadi]

Oh yeah Dee my bad, it is a fuel:sorry1:. Again I can't help wonder why not tell Ezekiel straightforward the problem with Israel instead of going through these unnecessary symbols? What is the purpose? By the way I will give your definition of logical. ANYTHING that God does. But it doesn't suit me. What things you don't understand? When there is glaring evidence of His bad deeds you somehow sugarcoat it. But you and some others have failed to explain to us here why good people suffer UNDER ALL POWERFUL GOD WHO CAN CHOOSE TO FORESEE OUR FREE WILL WITHOUT INTERFERING IT. And back to the same place we have tread before.

 

[JayJayDee]

Oh yeah Dee my bad, it is a fuel:sorry1:.

We all make mistakes.

Again I can't help wonder why not tell Ezekiel straightforward the problem with Israel instead of going through these unnecessary symbols? What is the purpose?

It is not for us to tell God what, or how to do what he sees fit. Do you profess equality with God? Are your thoughts higher than his thoughts, or your ways better than his? (Isa 55:8, 9)I ask you this because compared to God we are infants in knowledge and experience. We have been alive 5 minutes and God has existed forever.
If the symbols given by means of his prophets were unnecessary, then why would he have them performed?

Ours is not to question "why?". We are to obey our Maker as one who knows all things and who is in the process of settling a universal issue....in universal time....on universal ground.

By the way I will give your definition of logical. ANYTHING that God does. But it doesn't suit me.

It doesn't have to suit you. It has to suit God. You either fit in with his purpose or you place yourself outside of it. It's that simple really. Right from day one, it has always been about man's obedience to his Creator and in not exercising the gift of free will in a selfish way.

What things you don't understand? When there is glaring evidence of His bad deeds you somehow sugarcoat it.

Tell me about these "bad deeds" and we might be able to make sense of them for you.

But you and some others have failed to explain to us here why good people suffer UNDER ALL POWERFUL GOD WHO CAN CHOOSE TO FORESEE OUR FREE WILL WITHOUT INTERFERING IT. And back to the same place we have tread before

There is a very reasonable explanation for all things, if you can put your pride in its place and humbly ask for the answers with the right attitude, God will provide them. (James 4:6, 10)

He will allow all of us to think and reason as we please, but only if we seek him with a humble spirit will he allow himself to be 'discovered' by us.

Sin is a barrier between us and our Creator, but God, by means of his son, allows us to approach him and to gain what we seek, whilst he contends with his adversary.
Sin can also cause us to demonstrate arrogance and an unwillingness to accept the explanation that God provides. That too is our choice. :sad:

The first rebel was not human, therefore the prime target of God's object lesson is not someone who lives in our timeframe or who is governed by our physical limitations. If God is to provide precedents in a legal case over his sovereign right to set limits for his human creation, and to limit the knowledge he has decided to give to them, then we are all involved....both humans and angels abused the gift of free will and have used it selfishly with disastrous consequences.

The devil made slanderous accusations about God's motives and his allowing his earthly children to be shielded from evil. This was in effect calling the Creator a lousy father who lied to his children about the only restriction he set for them.

He also said that humans were basically selfish and that they only served God because he gave them everything, in effect shielding them from anything bad if they were faithful to him. He said that if he was allowed to making the going hard by taking away God's protective "hedge" and allowing calamity to befall them, that humans would curse God and leave him. (Job 1 & 2)

What has history shown?

When humans fail to learn from the lessons of the past, we all know that it leads them to repeat the same mistakes..over and over. Humans have proven beyond a shadow of doubt that they cannot rule themselves successfully without God. Look at the state of the world and see what God sees. No matter how smart he thinks he is, the base nature of fallen humanity always takes over. "Man dominates man to his injury" Solomon said...how true.

Soon now, we believe that the time will come for the issues to be settled once for all time. God will reestablish his sovereignty over the earth by means of his kingdom in the capable hands of his Christ and those chosen to assist him as kings and priests. (Rev 20:6) Things will go back to the way they were in Eden and God's purpose, temporarily derailed by rebellion will be reinstated, never to be challenged again.

Will it be worth all that we have gone through? Compared to an eternity of peace and happiness that can never be interrupted by rebellion again? You bet! (Isa 65:17-19)

 

[Draupadi]

His bad deeds? The suffering of good people for nothing. You can explain away all people's sufferings. And why do you ask me to feel inferior to a God of a book that is full of errors? I highly doubt that it is from God. Now you may ask what errors? That will need another thread so let's stop it here.

 

[Aupmanyav]

No. It is from Allah. I wonder you doubt it! It is a test.

 

[Maldini]

Several different types of stuff happens to several different things. Bad things happening to good people is not anything special.

 

[Draupadi]

And it is actually insulting that some people consider that it happens to good people because they are bad. And it actually demeans God that He needs to test us with calamities. I see these things as extremely random stuff which has got nothing to do with the above things.

 

[Pegg]

Oh yeah Dee my bad, it is a fuel:sorry1:. Again I can't help wonder why not tell Ezekiel straightforward the problem with Israel instead of going through these unnecessary symbols? What is the purpose? By the way I will give your definition of logical. ANYTHING that God does. But it doesn't suit me. What things you don't understand? When there is glaring evidence of His bad deeds you somehow sugarcoat it. But you and some others have failed to explain to us here why good people suffer UNDER ALL POWERFUL GOD WHO CAN CHOOSE TO FORESEE OUR FREE WILL WITHOUT INTERFERING IT. And back to the same place we have tread before.

HI Draupadi,

the answer to this is very simple and is shown to us in the book of Job in the bible as Jaydee has pointed out in her last post.

You know that God has challenged Gods right to rule mankind and to set our laws for us. And what did God do when he was challenged in that way? He allowed time for that issue of his rulership to be settled....he stood back and allowed mankind to rule themselves. And from that rulership, we see that bad things happen as a consequence.

But Satan did not only challenge God. He also challenged you and I and every other person on the planet who has ever lived. He has accused mankind of being a disloyal and selfish creature and the book of Job shows that Satan claims that if God is not protecting us from all bad things and if he is not providing abundantly for us, we will curse God and reject him because we are only serving God for selfish reasons.

Job 1:6 Now the day came when the sons of the true God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and Satan also entered among them.
7 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where have you come from?” Satan answered Jehovah: “From roving about on the earth and from walking about in it.” 8 And Jehovah said to Satan: “Have you taken note of my servant Job? There is no one like him on the earth. He is an upright man of integrity, fearing God and shunning what is bad.” 9 At that Satan answered Jehovah: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God? 10 Have you not put up a protective hedge around him and his house and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his livestock has spread out in the land. 11 But, for a change, stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your very face.” 12 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! Everything that he has is in your hand. Only do not lay your hand on the man himself!” So Satan went out from the presence of Jehovah.


So, in the same way he allowed time for the question to be answered with regard to his rulership, he has also allowed time for this question to be answered. He has removed his protective care from each of us...he has not interfered when we've made a bad decision, he has allowed us to go through the consequences of trials because he wants this question to be put to rest. Satan brings the trials on us and God helps us to cope them them... but soon we know that Satan will be destroyed and we will once again have God protective care surrounding us.
Until then, we must continue to answer Satans question about our motives and our loyalty by sticking with our Creator no matter what trials we may suffer through.

 

[Draupadi]

Why create Satan? What is the point of establishing God's rulership through suffering when He can give us all Heaven where we all will freely accept His sovereignty? And why create people with free will at all if they will turn out bad, if they ultimately end up dying?

 

[Pegg]

Why create Satan? What is the point of establishing God's rulership through suffering when He can give us all Heaven where we all will freely accept His sovereignty? And why create people with free will at all if they will turn out bad, if they ultimately end up dying?

Satan was not always bad....just as a murderer is not born a murderer, they choose to become such.

Gods rulership was already established. The Garden of Eden was the reality of Gods rulership over mankind...that paradise was the standard set by his rulership. There was no hardship in paradise, no crime, no violence, no hunger, no thirst...Gods rulership was perfect. But they turned away from it and chose to be independent and rule themselves....and what we have today with all its suffering is the result of what happens when people disobey God and make their own rules and standards. If you want to go back to Gods rulership, you have to put faith in his son and praying for his kingdom.

 

[Draupadi]

Why give free will in the first place when God only needs good people for His kingdom and the rest will be dead?

 

[Pegg]

Why give free will in the first place when God only needs good people for His kingdom and the rest will be dead?

Do you mean he needs people for 'heaven'?

If so, we should be asking why he created mankind as phyical beings on earth rather then spirit beings in heaven.

According to the bible, mankind are made for earth, not heaven.

Psalms 115:16 As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah,
But the earth he has given to the sons of men.

And the bible says again and again that man will live on earth forever:

Psalm 37:29 The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.

Isaiah 45:18 For this is what Jehovah says, The Creator of the heavens, the true God, The One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it, Who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.

Matthew 5:5 “Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth


The heavens are not for mankind. And i think its logical that if we were made fro the heavens, we would have been created there in the first place. As it is, we have been created to remain on earth.
And we can be part of Gods kingdom on earth simply by submitting to Gods authority. He will always rule from heaven, and we will always be subjects of his kingdom from our earthly location.

 

[Draupadi]

Yes I was talking about the Kingdom of God. The good ones will only live there and the bad ones will be dead. So create only good people and don't create free will. In this way there will be no suffering.

 

[Pegg]

Yes I was talking about the Kingdom of God. The good ones will only live there and the bad ones will be dead. So create only good people and don't create free will. In this way there will be no suffering.

but everyone has the ability to be good. People choose to do wicked acts...its not part of our nature to do wicked acts. If God takes freewill away from us, then we will not be 'like' him. He created us 'in his image'...that requires that we have the ability to live and act of our own conscious decisions.

You must realise that free-will is not the reason why people do bad things.

People carry out wicked acts for many reasons...some are trained to do such acts, some are forced to, some simply want to because they will derive some benefit from doing so, some are ignorant. There are many reasons and non of them have anything to do with the way we are made.