Why Do Bad Things Happen to Good People?

[Draupadi]

But you and the others here say that it is due to Satan and human beings' free will, caused by indoctrination, etc. are the causes of evil things and suffering. Now you deny that? Of course there are cases where people are coerced into doing bad things, but that is an exception.

I would rather be not made in God's image, have free will and suffer. It's a curse.

 

[Draupadi]

By the way angels and animals have free wills. Were they created in God's image too?

 

[Pegg]

But you and the others here say that it is due to Satan and human beings' free will, caused by indoctrination, etc. are the causes of evil things and suffering.

suffering and wickedness are the result of the actions of those who carry them out. Its not because they have free will that they do bad.

Its like saying that because I give you a knife, you are going to use it to kill everything you see. Is that reasonable? Should we assume that a person who has been given a knife will use it to kill someone?
Of course not.
Likewise, Free-will is not a reason to do bad things nor does free-will cause people to do bad things.

Can i ask you what you think of free-will when someone does good things? Is their-free will the cause of them doing good things?

 

[Pegg]

By the way angels and animals have free wills. Were they created in God's image too?

Angels are certainly made in Gods image. But animals are not. They do not actually have free will. Animals are programmed to live a particular life.

Birds are programed to migrate from one spot on earth to another. Fish are programmed to swim from one location to another and to do a particular job in the process. Cows are programmed to eat the same type of food every day for their entire life. Bee's are programmed to live their life collecting pollen from flowers and make honey.

Animals do not have a choice in these things because they have no freedom of will, they are not self-willed...they simply exist to perform a function which has been programmed into them by their creator. Would you like to live like that?

 

[Draupadi]

suffering and wickedness are the result of the actions of those who carry them out. Its not because they have free will that they do bad.

Its like saying that because I give you a knife, you are going to use it to kill everything you see. Is that reasonable? Should we assume that a person who has been given a knife will use it to kill someone?
Of course not.
Likewise, Free-will is not a reason to do bad things nor does free-will cause people to do bad things.

Can i ask you what you think of free-will when someone does good things? Is their-free will the cause of them doing good things?

If I a human being is given a knife and I misuse it or use it for good depends on my will. Isn't that free will? If it's not that it is God who made me do it. Then why blame me for stabbing a person? If God wanted I would have just used it to cut apples for my family, right?

 

[Pegg]

If I a human being is given a knife and I misuse it or use it for good depends on my will. Isn't that free will?

Yes. I is your will. You are able to do what you will with the knife. Thats right.

If it's not that it is God who made me do it. Then why blame me for stabbing a person? If God wanted I would have just used it to cut apples for my family, right?

Its 'your' will remember. God does not make us do anything. We get to choose what we do...thats what free-will means... it means we have the ability to make our own decisions.

There is nothing bad about having that ability. Im sure you like the fact that you can wake up in the morning and choose what you will eat, what you will wear and what you will do for the day. Free-will is not a bad thing.

 

[Big_TJ]

The concept of "free will" seems far-fetched - at least to me. If it is really "free will" then I should not be punished for what I choose to do. In other words, I shouldn't be only rewarded if I choose the same thing that others (whoever) would want me to choose, especially when the other options are not suitable.

Say, for example, that your child wants to go to college. However, you say to him "Honey, you can either study Engineering or Economics. BUT I will ONLY pay for your education IF you choose to do Engineering!" If the child really wants to go to college, does he really have a choice about what he will study???

 

[Pegg]

The concept of "free will" seems far-fetched - at least to me. If it is really "free will" then I should not be punished for what I choose to do. In other words, I shouldn't be only rewarded if I choose the same thing that others (whoever) would want me to choose, especially when the other options are not suitable.

free-will does not mean 'free for all'

you have the freedom to drive on the nations roads, but you are not free to do whatever you please on those roads, are you?

You are free to take an areoplane to a foreign country, but you are not free to do whatever you want on the plane, are you?

Our free-will comes with responsibility to adhere to the rules as with everything in life. We are free to do good as much as we like, but we are not free to do bad and nor should we be.

Say, for example, that your child wants to go to college. However, you say to him "Honey, you can either study Engineering or Economics. BUT I will ONLY pay for your education IF you choose to do Engineering!" If the child really wants to go to college, does he really have a choice about what he will study???

it seems the parent believes it would be bad for the child to study economics for some reason... perhaps the child should take that a sign that economics is not a good thing to do and engineering is the right choice.

As i said above, we have free-will to do right, we dont have free-will to do wrong.

 

[Draupadi]

If it's my will it is then free will. It is an opportunity given by God to do as we like. I don't have the right to abuse it for greater good but I still can do it. If that wasn't the case then why would God reward/punish us for our deeds? And God gave it to me. I don't know why your tune's suddenly changed? And I am saying this world will be better off without free will.

 

[Pegg]

If it's my will it is then free will. It is an opportunity given by God to do as we like. I don't have the right to abuse it for greater good but I still can do it.

yOu have to remember that we live in a world governed by man.

Mankind is self governed, self ruled. We have human governments and it is their responsibility to bring justice and deal with those who misuse freewill.

If you want God to deal with such things, you need a world ruled by God. We know that world is very near... but for now, while human rulership remains, it is up to them to fix the problems of wickedness and deal with the violence and crime and injustices.

If that wasn't the case then why would God reward/punish us for our deeds? And God gave it to me. I don't know why your tune's suddenly changed? And I am saying this world will be better off without free will.

the truth is, he doesnt punish or reward anyone in this life for their deeds. How often do you see God intervene when someone is about to murder someone? He doesnt do it. Its man's responsibility to do so because we are independent of God and his rulership.

If the world was being governed by God, such things would not happen and he would deal with them before a person even had the opportunity to carry out their wicked deed.

I havn't changed the tune on anything. We were created with free will and given laws to live by and in the Garden of Eden, God was ruling... having free will did not mean mankind were allowed to be lawless or do what we like.
We still have to abide by Gods laws.... but mankind do not abide by them because they are independent of Gods rulership...they are ruling themselves and making their own rules.

If you dont like the current situation, you are a perfect candidate for the kingdom of God because you and i both know that if God were ruling mankind, injustice and war and violence would cease. Why? Because those who want to live under Gods rulership would abide by the laws of God...and those laws do not allow for wicked acts.

 

[Draupadi]

God never intervened? But the Bible has loads of cases like that. And who gave the power to us to harm ourselves and others? God.

 

[Pegg]

God never intervened? But the Bible has loads of cases like that. And who gave the power to us to harm ourselves and others? God.

When God was ruling in Eden, he did intervene... he expelled the rebels and imposed the death sentence.

He also acted when he flooded the earth with water in the days of Noah. And we are guaranteed that he will act again when he removes mankinds governments and their various institutions. That will happen...and very soon.

At that time God will remove the wicked ones from the face of the earth. And the rest of mankind can live in peace and harmony and will free-will which they will not misuse.

 

[Draupadi]

Kind of weird that He will make us wait so many years until Christ comes back and let us suffer in the midst, nah?

 

[kjw47]

Kind of weird that He will make us wait so many years until Christ comes back and let us suffer in the midst, nah?

One needs to take in to account, the occurrences of Eden. When satan told Eve, they would become like God, knowing good and bad--he basically was saying if we knew both sides ourselves, we wouldn't need Gods guidance through life to find real happiness---this was a challenge to his universal sovereignty, in front of all creation( 2 mortals--millions upon millions of spirit beings)--- God is letting the issues raised against him be proven once and for all time, so it never happens again. Satan also raised issues against mortals concerning Job. these issues we are personally involved in as well--We can prove satan wrong, like Job did. It is almost done.

 

[Pegg]

Kind of weird that He will make us wait so many years until Christ comes back and let us suffer in the midst, nah?

Yes, he most certainly has waited as kjw47 stated...there is an issue raised which needed time to answer.

Imagine a very serious court case. Lawyers have to spend time gathering evidence, prosecutors have to spend time putting their evidence together in order to present it for inspection.

When Satan challenged the rightfulness of Gods rulership over mankind, time would be needed to answer that challenge. God would need to allow man time to rule himself independent of Gods authority to allow time to see if man is better off without God.

Jehovah has patiently allowed time to settle this issue. And im pretty sure that all generations of mankind since the time of Eden onward would all agree that man cannot successfully govern themselves. We have failed miserably to create a peaceful society, we have failed to feed earths billions of people, we have failed to care for the animals and environment, we have caused untold suffering to billions of people and for as long as man continues to rule this earth without Gods intervention, it will continue to get worse and worse.

Do you think there is enough evidence on the table that mans self-rule has been harmful? I do. And I also believe that we are living in the time when God will allow this challenge to finally face its end.

 

[Draupadi]

A really horrible way to teach us by an omnipotent Being who could have just instilled the knowledge in our hearts. So much suffering is simply not worth it .

 

[Pegg]

A really horrible way to teach us by an omnipotent Being who could have just instilled the knowledge in our hearts. So much suffering is simply not worth it .

you have to stop blaming God and start looking at where suffering comes from. It comes from people doing the wrong thing.

And a world where people do not adhere to Gods laws, and where his authority is not respected is a very pitiful place as we can see.

 

[Draupadi]

It is God who has given us the capabilities to harm others, and it is He who has the power to help us but prefers to remain mum. And all this for nothing when He had better things to do than toy with our lives. Oh I give up.

 

[Pegg]

It is God who has given us the capabilities to harm others, and it is He who has the power to help us but prefers to remain mum. And all this for nothing when He had better things to do than toy with our lives. Oh I give up.

he has given us laws and when followed, no harm comes to anyone.

Also think about it, he hasnt remained silent over the past 6,000 years. He has spoken and even acted on numerous occasions.

He destroyed the wicked people who ruined the earth in the days of noah.
He destroyed the wicked people who inhabited the cities of Sodom and gommorah. He gave Isreal his laws and by them he showed the world how good things can be when everyone lives by his laws... the reign of King Solomon were said to be the most prosperous and peaceful time for the nation of Isreal because they were all upholding God laws.

He even sent his son to teach the generation of that time how to properly serve God and about the kingdom that God was soon to establish over mankind. That kingdom will very soon act to remove the wicked ones from the earth once again... so God will not forever allow this situation to continue.

Whatever you do, do not give up.

 

[kjw47]

It is God who has given us the capabilities to harm others, and it is He who has the power to help us but prefers to remain mum. And all this for nothing when He had better things to do than toy with our lives. Oh I give up.

The majority of ones suffering is brought on by ones own bad choices--some from others---but those who love and trust God, know he is doing exactly what is needed--its called faith.