Why do bad things happen when God exists?

[Sonofason]

I could try but everything I would posit would only be my own views of same. For example, for me, God is a name used to describe the All. The creator, the power that exists within the whole of the universe. God, IMO, set things in motion for the earth but in no way did things like made Adam and Eve, but rather set biological means in action that we could evolve from. There is no gender or human attributes to God. Even the name is arbitrary. I will address your other two questions later as I am running late now. I do hope you are asking as a means to have a really interesting discussion and not to disparage each other. Namaste.

It sounds to me that your view of God is somewhat if not totally pantheistic. And I really have no trouble with that. I personally believe the Bible is true, and I will continue to do so as long as I am capable of manipulating the interpretation of the words written in the Bible to fit what I know is true in science. Even still I do at times stray into the pantheistic side of religion. Often have I considered that everything is God. And that could very well be the truth of it. However the Bible, and the personal and loving God that is described in it seems to resonate with me better.

I am a musician. It's not my occupation, but a hobby. The point is I understand music pretty well. When I experience God, when I believe I experience God, something happens which I like to make an association with something that happens with music. You see, when two notes are played that are not in tune the sound is horrible. They clash with one another. The same is true when we are not in tune with God. However as the notes become very close to being in tune with each other, they begin to resonate with each other. The same is true when we are nearly in tune with God. We indeed can resonate with God, and we can feel the effect. Does God operate on some particular frequency? I have no idea, but experiencing God is surely a lot like two notes becoming closely tuned with one another.

According to the Bible; well, according to what God says of Himself in the Bible, God has no gender. Remember what He said when He made Adam and Eve. He said, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
(Genesis 1:26)

Then the Bible says, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." (Genesis 1:27)

Obviously, the use of the word "man" in these verses is referring to mankind. Mankind includes male and female genders, and apparently a whole spectrum of in between. The gender delineation in these verses are delineated with the words "male" and "female".

So Here we have God creating mankind in his image, and He creates them male and female. The usage of the words male and female in these verses, I believe suggests that the image of God includes the male and female gender. But then, maybe I'm wrong. The word God is not a name, yet people do seem to use it as such. God is not the name of God.

 

[Sonofason]

Oh, I accept that there might be at least one other person who has a more brilliant mind than me who chooses to believe as you do. But by the same token, there might be at least one other person who has a more brilliant mind than you (and I) who chooses to believe as I do (or indeed otherwise).

I have faith in (my conception of) God. And I don't think that I am particularly gullible or desperate. Indeed, I plough very much my own furrow, rather than following what others say I should believe and how others say I should live my life. But of course I could still be both gullible and desperate.

You should read what I said again. I suggested that you might lack gullibility and desperation. It appears that some people believe that if a person believes in God as I do, that person must be gullible and desperate. Perhaps you lack those qualities.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

You should read what I said again. I suggested that you might lack gullibility and desperation. It appears that some people believe that if a person believes in God as I do, that person must be gullible and desperate. Perhaps you lack those qualities.

You asked: 'Do you believe that faith in God requires gullibility and desperation?'
Wrt myself as a person of faith, I believe I answered. Are you asking me something else?

 

[Sonofason]

You asked: 'Do you believe that faith in God requires gullibility and desperation?'
Wrt myself as a person of faith, I believe I answered. Are you asking me something else?

No, your statement here clarifies for me your position and previous statement. Thanks.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Sharee'ah and God's Law are not the same thing.

Really. I agree, but what do you think is the difference.?

Who says what God's Law is? God of course!

So how do you know yourself, much less show to others, that it's the true Word of God? WHY should I or anyone believe what you say is the word of God with just your say-so? There are other religions saying the same thing, and none of them make any rational rational sense either..

 

[look3467]

Brilliant minds....or ...brilliant hearts?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
In chronological order: 1. Love 2. heart 3. soul 4. strength 5. mind.

One can have the most brilliant mind but if there is no heart towards God; that individual will have the hardest time accepting by simple faith the things of God.

Blessings, AJ

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Brilliant minds....or ...brilliant hearts?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
In chronological order: 1. Love 2. heart 3. soul 4. strength 5. mind.

One can have the most brilliant mind but if there is no heart towards God; that individual will have the hardest time accepting by simple faith the things of God.

There is only one God worth believing in, and that's Truth. Believing in other gods based solely on ancient hearsay ignores your reason. A ship without a head at the controls (reason guiding faith), runs off course and eventually onto the rocks. And a ship without an engine (reason motivated by faith), is dead in the water. Life requires your mind and your heart working as a team. To turn one of them off is spiritual suicide.

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."--Thomas Jefferson

 

[serp777]

It sounds to me that your view of God is somewhat if not totally pantheistic. And I really have no trouble with that. I personally believe the Bible is true, and I will continue to do so as long as I am capable of manipulating the interpretation of the words written in the Bible to fit what I know is true in science. Even still I do at times stray into the pantheistic side of religion. Often have I considered that everything is God. And that could very well be the truth of it. However the Bible, and the personal and loving God that is described in it seems to resonate with me better.

I am a musician. It's not my occupation, but a hobby. The point is I understand music pretty well. When I experience God, when I believe I experience God, something happens which I like to make an association with something that happens with music. You see, when two notes are played that are not in tune the sound is horrible. They clash with one another. The same is true when we are not in tune with God. However as the notes become very close to being in tune with each other, they begin to resonate with each other. The same is true when we are nearly in tune with God. We indeed can resonate with God, and we can feel the effect. Does God operate on some particular frequency? I have no idea, but experiencing God is surely a lot like two notes becoming closely tuned with one another.

According to the Bible; well, according to what God says of Himself in the Bible, God has no gender. Remember what He said when He made Adam and Eve. He said, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
(Genesis 1:26)

Then the Bible says, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." (Genesis 1:27)

Obviously, the use of the word "man" in these verses is referring to mankind. Mankind includes male and female genders, and apparently a whole spectrum of in between. The gender delineation in these verses are delineated with the words "male" and "female".

So Here we have God creating mankind in his image, and He creates them male and female. The usage of the words male and female in these verses, I believe suggests that the image of God includes the male and female gender. But then, maybe I'm wrong. The word God is not a name, yet people do seem to use it as such. God is not the name of God.

When I experience God, when I believe I experience God, something happens which I like to make an association with something that happens with music. You see, when two notes are played that are not in tune the sound is horrible. They clash with one another. The same is true when we are not in tune with God. However as the notes become very close to being in tune with each other, they begin to resonate with each other. The same is true when we are nearly in tune with God. We indeed can resonate with God, and we can feel the effect. Does God operate on some particular frequency? I have no idea, but experiencing God is surely a lot like two notes becoming closely tuned with one another.

It could be Satan for all you know. You can't know if you've been deceived. Satan is the master deceiver and could alter your mind to affect how "keys sound" essentially.

The usage of the words male and female in these verses, I believe suggests that the image of God includes the male and female gender.

That doesn't make sense. The point of the different sexes are for humans to reproduce. God doesn't do any reproducing, so how or why would he have both genders?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Really. I agree, but what do you think is the difference.?

Wrt the running of a state, God does not require - indeed does not want - any more laws than would be required to set up and run a night-watchman state, as I have already suggested. Sharee'ah - and those who support it - seek to control just about everything, and what everyone thinks and does. In this sense, it is the work of Satan. By contrast, God wants freedom.

So how do you know yourself, much less show to others, that it's the true Word of God? WHY should I or anyone believe what you say is the word of God with just your say-so? There are other religions saying the same thing, and none of them make any rational rational sense either..

I hear many voices inside my head. Some advise and guide and support me, and others mock and persecute and incite to violence. The former I take to be the Voices of God, the latter the voices of Satan. That is how I know. Why should you or anyone believe what I say? Well, listen to the content of what I have to say. If you agree/believe, you agree/believe, and if you don't, you don't. It's your choice.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Wrt the running of a state, God does not require - indeed does not want - any more laws than would be required to set up and run a night-watchman state, as I have already suggested. Sharee'ah - and those who support it - seek to control just about everything, and what everyone thinks and does. In this sense, it is the work of Satan. By contrast, God wants freedom.

I suggest that for controlling/legislating human interactions, we need nothing more than the Golden Rule: "Honoring the EQUAL rights of ALL to life, liberty, property and self-defense, to be free from violation through force or fraud." And that's logically deducible by itself, and applicable to everyone. All else is individually determined virtues, and they could be the focus of religions or spiritual groups, but strictly voluntary as long as they don't violate the overriding Golden Rule's protection of individual rights/freedoms. You'd be rejecting parts of Islam that are incompatible with the Golden Rule, at least those parts which are beyond workable modification by interpretation.

I hear many voices inside my head. Some advise and guide and support me, and others mock and persecute and incite to violence. The former I take to be the Voices of God, the latter the voices of Satan. That is how I know. Why should you or anyone believe what I say? Well, listen to the content of what I have to say. If you agree/believe, you agree/believe, and if you don't, you don't. It's your choice.

It's compatible with what I just wrote, but religious hierarchies will resist mightily against giving up any of their power. But I like it as an ultimate goal, stipulating a very few involuntary limits to freedom applicable to all, while encouraging a voluntary search for paths to virtuous behavior. I imagine the ones most resistant to virtue would be the ones also resisting the loss of power on both sides of the wall of separation between church and state. It won't control evil, but it would give us a rational front of cooperation against it that would keep us from turning on ourselves--which is exactly what evil wants.

As long as I've been at this, I'm surprised to learn that I've still room to learn more and grow.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

I suggest that for controlling/legislating human interactions, we need nothing more than the Golden Rule: "Honoring the EQUAL rights of ALL to life, liberty, property and self-defense, to be free from violation through force or fraud." And that's logically deducible by itself, and applicable to everyone. All else is individually determined virtues, and they could be the focus of religions or spiritual groups, but strictly voluntary as long as they don't violate the overriding Golden Rule's protection of individual rights/freedoms.

I think we're saying the same thing here. This is, to my mind, what underpins a night-watchman state.

It's compatible with what I just wrote, but religious hierarchies will resist mightily against giving up any of their power. But I like it as an ultimate goal, stipulating a very few involuntary limits to freedom applicable to all, while encouraging a voluntary search for paths to virtuous behavior. I imagine the ones most resistant to virtue would be the ones also resisting the loss of power on both sides of the wall of separation between church and state.

I completely agree.

 

[Sonofason]

It could be Satan for all you know. You can't know if you've been deceived. Satan is the master deceiver and could alter your mind to affect how "keys sound" essentially.


That doesn't make sense. The point of the different sexes are for humans to reproduce. God doesn't do any reproducing, so how or why would he have both genders?

Haven't you been paying attention to the news, Gender no longer exists.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I think we're saying the same thing here. This is, to my mind, what underpins a night-watchman state.

Nightwatchman as in just watching for future reference vis a vis a Hereafter, or watching with the intent of intervening in this universe--which must necessarily nullify our free will?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Nightwatchman as in just watching for future reference vis a vis a Hereafter, or watching with the intent of intervening in this universe--which must necessarily nullify our free will?

I'm sorry, I don't really understand your question - can you rephrase it?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I'm sorry, I don't really understand your question - can you rephrase it?

Do you mean a nightwatchman God and intervenes in the affairs of men, or does God just watch?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

If there is God and He is good, then why does “bad” exist? What is the reason for God to create all that is bad? Why couldn’t God create a world that has only bliss and happiness? Why has God made suffering? Why has God made problems? Why has God made poverty? Why do we suffer? Why do we fall sick? Why has God made death? If God is such a good God and if He is the creator of the universe, then why has He created this whole concept of suffering? Why has He let people become terrorists? Why has He let people create pain? And this is not just about people. Look at the animal world. Why has He created it in such a way that the tiger kills the deer, the cat eats the mouse, and the dog chases the cat? Why has God made the world like this?

We can go on asking questions as to why God has created the world like this, but the question that we need to ask ourselves is that should we question this way? Should we question His authority – Why He has done this? What He has done? Do we know better about what He has done, or does the Creator know better about what He has done? So from our limited intelligence and viewpoints, is it right to comment on or question and be judgmental about what God has created and why God has created so?

Why are we questioning what God has done? Why do we doubt God’s intentions? Why do we question God’s plan for our life? Why do we question what God has created on Earth? Should we not spend time pondering upon these rather than questioning what God has done? This is the question I ask myself today.

AiR

I'd say it's in our God given curiosity to ask all these questions of him. God wants us to, and to discover the answers for ourselves

Just as we expect our own children to question us, they don't always understand why we don't grant their every wish either!

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Do you mean a nightwatchman God and intervenes in the affairs of men, or does God just watch?

Ah, I see.
I wasn't referring to God. I was referring to a night-watchman state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night-watchman_state.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Ah, I see.
I wasn't referring to God. I was referring to a night-watchman state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night-watchman_state.

On that I couldn't agree more either. I guess the last remaining thorn is this: "Why should you or anyone believe what I say? Well, listen to the content of what I have to say. If you agree/believe, you agree/believe, and if you don't, you don't. It's your choice."

That agrees in spirit with what I've often said myself: "Out of the mouths of babes or the Devil himself, the Truth is the Truth". I guess that includes voices in the head, whether they were voices my own mind generated, or came from an external unknown (supernatural?) source. If I couldn't tell the difference I would have to assume the former; because if the latter, that would be a supernatural source undermining my free will by negating the natural, rational foundation for the universe we use as a stage on which to exercise that free will.

And dare I say that there is a third possible, more worrisome cause for such voices; but I can't believe that's the case here because all the rest of your thinking is so obviously rational--if I do say so myself. Could it be that you're straining overly hard to hold on to your Islamic heritage? I know my transition from Christianity was a traumatic experience, and I strained to hold on to certain beliefs, like prophesy and fate, for decades before I finally was able to give them up.

BTW, I believe that the Devil or Satan are just symbolic names we give to the personification of our temptation to do evil. As such, the Devil only tells us one lie, "Your vanity is justified". IOW, our ego rationalizes the value of our rights to outweigh the value of the rights of others.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

If I couldn't tell the difference I would have to assume the former; because if the latter, that would be a supernatural source undermining my free will by negating the natural, rational foundation for the universe we use as a stage on which to exercise that free will.

That is because you assume that God gave us free will and set in motion the creation of the universe (?), and then 'stood back' and 'allowed things to play out'. I see God's Role in the creation of the universe and everything that has happened since somewhat differently.

And dare I say that there is a third possible, more worrisome cause for such voices

I have considered that possibility. And I still do.

Could it be that you're straining overly hard to hold on to your Islamic heritage? I know my transition from Christianity was a traumatic experience, and I strained to hold on to certain beliefs, like prophesy and fate, for decades before I finally was able to give them up.

Well, I wasn't born a Muslim.

BTW, I believe that the Devil or Satan are just symbolic names we give to the personification of our temptation to do evil.

Respectfully, I disagree.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

That is because you assume that God gave us free will and set in motion the creation of the universe (?), and then 'stood back' and 'allowed things to play out'. I see God's Role in the creation of the universe and everything that has happened since somewhat differently.

Mine delineates a (the?) purpose for God creating the universe. Does yours, and if so, what is it?

I have considered that possibility. And I still do.

How can you not move past it before you take on other issues regarding reality?

Well, I wasn't born a Muslim.

Well then, what were you and what caused you to change?

Respectfully, I disagree.

I'm sure, but you still have a mighty grip on reality in spite of those aural apparitions hounding you. Again, can you move forward until you've settled that critical issue?