Why do Gentiles assume they should follow the ten commandments?

[Harmonious]

One is led to believe that one can not study without a rabbi, this is the whole intent.

Oddly enough, despite yourself, you are exactly right.

Anyone can sit down and read, but to truly understand Torah tradition, one needs a teacher.

Remember, when Moses had to assemble the congregation every seven years to read the Torah to the little children [and parents] he had to have a rabbi stand by and explain every word "orally" to them

Moses didn't, but in the great Yeshivot in Babylonia, they had someone who DID explain things like that. However, the fellow I'm discussing was known as a Meturgaman, or Translator.

While Torah was always taught to any Jews willing to learn, if you want to know the history of who were the stewards in charge of passing on Tradition...

Moses received the Torah from Sinai and transmitted it to Joshua; Joshua to the Elders; the Elders to the Prophets; and the Prophets transmitted it to the Men of the Great Assembly. (from Ethics of the Fathers, 1:1)

 

[waitasec]

Anyone can sit down and read, but to truly understand Torah tradition, one needs a teacher.

i find that odd.
it's as if god cannot speak for himself.

 

[Harmonious]

i find that odd.
it's as if god cannot speak for himself.

Heavens, no.

Torah is meant to be a tradition of family, of history, and of community. Many things were written in shorthand so that people would be forced to learn from each other.

A Jew cannot live a comfortable life as a hermit. The only way for us to really learn and understand, and even LIVE is if we are with other people.

We're not meant to "figure it out all on our own." We are meant to share.

 

[waitasec]

Heavens, no.

Torah is meant to be a tradition of family, of history, and of community. Many things were written in shorthand so that people would be forced to learn from each other.

A Jew cannot live a comfortable life as a hermit. The only way for us to really learn and understand, and even LIVE is if we are with other people.

We're not meant to "figure it out all on our own." We are meant to share.

wow...and i mean that in the nicest sense.
i am of the opinion that judaism being a very old tradition has had the opportunity to embrace all angles....or most of 'em.

it's a solid tradition indeed, and an odd one too

 

[Harmonious]

wow...and i mean that in the nicest sense.
i am of the opinion that judaism being a very old tradition has had the opportunity to embrace all angles....or most of 'em.

it's a solid tradition indeed, and an odd one too

Cool.

 

[roberto]

Oddly enough, despite yourself, you are exactly right.)

See, even a broken clock/watch can be right twice a day.

Anyone can sit down and read, but to truly understand Torah tradition, one needs a teacher..)

Yeh, no need to explain, I come from a system that spews exactly that. Ortodox is the flipside of xtianity.

if you want to know the history of who were the stewards in charge of passing on Tradition...

Moses received the Torah from Sinai and transmitted it to Joshua; Joshua to the Elders; the Elders to the Prophets; and the Prophets transmitted it to the Men of the Great Assembly. (from Ethics of the Fathers, 1:1)

Yeh, and Ahaz used it[oraltorah] as toiletpaper:

Melachim II - II Kings - Chapter 22
8. And Hilkiah the high priest said to Shaphan the scribe, "I have found the Scroll of the Law in the house of the Lord," and Hilkiah gave the scroll to Shaphan, and he read it. ?.
I have found the Scroll of the Law: It was hidden under a layer of stones where they had concealed it when Ahaz burned the Torah.
10. And Shaphan the scribe told the king, saying, "Hilkiah the priest gave me a scroll," And Shaphan read it before the king. ?.
11. And it was when the king heard the words of the scroll of the Law, that he rent his garments.
13. "Go, inquire of the Lord on my behalf and on the behalf of the people and on behalf of all of Judah concerning the words of this scroll which has been found, for great is the Lord's wrath which is kindled against us, since our forefathers did not obey the words of this scroll, to do according to all that is written concerning us."
17. Because they have forsaken Me and have burned incense to pagan deities, in order to provoke Me with all the deeds of their hands, My wrath is kindled against this place, and it shall not be quenched.'
Talmud - Mas. Sanhedrin 103b
Ahaz caused the [sacrificial] service to cease, and sealed the Torah, as it is written, Bind up the
testimony, seal the law among my disciples.21

Shabbat shalom to all of yous in the one tribed Kingdom.
.

 

[sojourner]

Yeh, no need to explain, I come from a system that spews exactly that. Ortodox is the flipside of xtianity.

Xy is far more communally-oriented than most folks give it credit for. Even Xy needs its teachers to explain the nuances of the Tradition.

 

[Levite]

Oh so now "our" little tiff turned out ok ?

I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

 

[roberto]

Xy is far more communally-oriented than most folks give it credit for. Even Xy needs its teachers to explain the nuances of the Tradition.

I 100% agree with you.
One instance where they fail though is to explain the 2 days in the grave of jes_s.

 

[roberto]

I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

No problem, i shall keep it to myself as others reading here do understand what I meant.

 

[sojourner]

I 100% agree with you.
One instance where they fail though is to explain the 2 days in the grave of jes_s.

I've had it explained just fine to me...

 

[sojourner]

No problem, i shall keep it to myself as others reading here do understand what I meant.

I've been following this thread and I've got to agree with Levite and Harmonious.

 

[roberto]

I've been following this thread and I've got to agree with Levite and Harmonious.

Yes, it's because you belong to the same flock. No problem.
Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd; I know my own, and my own know me --

 

[-Peacemaker-]

In case no one has mentioned it, unlike much of the Mosaic law, it could be said that the 10 commandments are self-evident truths. I think our Jewish friends posing this question will agree with the claim that God gave us a conscience. Believe it or not, some of us gentiles are actually trying to be decent people.

 

[sojourner]

Believe it or not, some of us gentiles are actually trying to be decent people.

I love this line!

 

[Shermana]

In case no one has mentioned it, unlike much of the Mosaic law, it could be said that the 10 commandments are self-evident truths. I think our Jewish friends posing this question will agree with the claim that God gave us a conscience. Believe it or not, some of us gentiles are actually trying to be decent people.

So you think the Sabbath is a self-evident truth? I would agree. Or did you mean to say 9 of the 10 commandments? Even then, I don't think the commandment to not covet is a self-evident truth, would you not covet if it weren't for the commandment? Even Paul needed the commandment to avoid coveting. I'd think many people would seek their neighbor's wives if they weren't forbidden as well.

 

[Levite]

In case no one has mentioned it, unlike much of the Mosaic law, it could be said that the 10 commandments are self-evident truths. I think our Jewish friends posing this question will agree with the claim that God gave us a conscience. Believe it or not, some of us gentiles are actually trying to be decent people.

Absolutely. I could not agree more with this, for the most part. A few of the ten commandments might not be so self-evident, but not murdering, stealing, committing adultery ought to be pretty self-evident, and one might hope that honoring one's parents and not giving false testimony would also be fairly self-evident.

In general, part of the reason that we're okay with the idea that the Torah is meant for Jews only is precisely because non-Jews have consciences, and reason, and are able to create just societies based on their own truths and discoveries. And in the end, just societies is what God really wants.

 

[roberto]

Absolutely. I could not agree more with this, for the most part. A few of the ten commandments might not be so self-evident, but not murdering, stealing, committing adultery ought to be pretty self-evident, and one might hope that honoring one's parents and not giving false testimony would also be fairly self-evident.

In general, part of the reason that we're okay with the idea that the Torah is meant for Jews only is precisely because non-Jews have consciences, and reason, and are able to create just societies based on their own truths and discoveries. And in the end, just societies is what God really wants.

What YHVH really wants is obedience to His laws.

Not obedience to the laws of a god created by Christianity NOR obedience to the laws of a god created by Judaism for Gentiles.

Deu 6:4
(HOT+) שׁמעH8085 ישׂראלH3478 יהוהH3068 אלהינוH430 יהוהH3068 אחד׃H259
(cjb) "Sh'ma, Yisra'el! ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI echad [Hear, Isra'el! ADONAI our God, ADONAI is one]
Not two or three, but ONE with one set of rues/instructions.
.

 

[Levite]

What YHVH really wants is obedience to His laws.

Not obedience to the laws of a god created by Christianity NOR obedience to the laws of a god created by Judaism for Gentiles.

I suggest a re-examination of the prophetic literature, such as the fifth chapter of Amos:
ההפכים ללענה משפט וצדקה לארץ הניחו׃ דרשו־טוב ואל־רע למען תחיו ויהי־כן ה' אלקי־צבאות אתכם כאשר אמרתם׃ שנאו־רע ואהבו טוב והציגו בשער משפט אולי יחנן ה' אלקי־צבאות שארית יוסף׃ שנאתי מאסתי חגיכם ולא אריח בעצרתיכם׃ כי אם־תעלו־לי עלות ומנחתיכם לא ארצה ושלם מריאיכם לא אביט׃
הסר מעלי המון שריך וזמרת נבליך לא אשמע: ויגל כמים משפט וצדקה כנחל איתן:
Am. 5:7, 14-15, 21-25
"You, who have turned the law to wormwood, flinging justice to the ground! ... Pusue good deeds and not evil, that you may live; in this way will YHVH the God of Legions will be with you, as you said. Hate what is evil and love what is good, and so bring forth law within your gates: perhaps then the God of Legions will be merciful to the remnant of Joseph's people. ...I hate, I scorn your festival rites! I find no savor in your days of assembly! When you offer to me offerings and gifts, I do not want them! I will not even look at your choice offerings-of-wellbeing! Get the clamor of your songs away from me: when you sing your scoundrelhood, I will not hear you! Rather, let law crest up like water in flood, justice like an arroyo in spate!"

No one's arguing that God appreciates monotheism, and absolutely expects it from the Jewish People. But God wants justice from all of us. All the theology and ritual practice in the world can't replace caring for the poor, feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, and protecting the vulnerable. God likes the respect due to Him. But He loves justice.

 

[roberto]

I suggest a re-examination of the prophetic literature, such as .....

And I suggest a re-examination of the prophetic literature, such as :

Hos 2:23 I will sow her to me in the earth;
and I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy;
and I will tell those who were not my people, ‘You are my people;’
and they will say, ‘My God!’"