Why Do Muslims Not Accept Oneness?

[YmirGF]

One of the best descriptions of religions is "the art and practice of bridging the distance between all too finite and imperfect human existence with infinite, eternal principles".

"Oneness" as the OP means it is probably some personal conception of religion that heavily emphasizes the second end.

By its own criteria, Islam is oneness. That of course ends up making the internal disagreements that much more bitter.

I disagree, Luis, it's more about conformity, submission to conformity, than it is about any so-called spiritual oneness.

 

[Akivah]

I don't need to disagree, i accept what the Quran says, and have experienced Heaven/Oneness myself.... So just explaining the way things are, if you disagree that is your choice.

Agreed, and really can't understand why i meet so many Muslims who deny the previous revelations; they make a claim they believe in the prophets, yet then make all sorts of insulting claims about their texts being rubbish. = Hypocrisy

It's nice to see you being consistent. You not only believe you are an authority on Judaism, but other religions as well.

 

[YmirGF]

It's nice to see you being consistent. You not only believe you are an authority on Judaism, but other religions as well.

The infinite arrogance of Oneness, perhaps?

 

[wizanda]

Unless you claim to be enlightened like the Buddha, of course.

Buddha didn't claim to be enlightened, he just helped show the way, and thus by leading the people to understanding, it was understood he was.

Another idea might be to just toss them all into the dust and try to come up with something much, much better that is more relevant to our times and is designed to evolve as we do. Radical idea, I know.

Already thinking about how to achieve it globally, just need to iron out a few points within religious disharmony.....Thinking we could establish Oneness as a universal religion, that was already there, we just didn't realize that is what all the ancestors have been leading us to.

I'd suggest you are misreading it due to your own confirmation bias.

3:84 We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was vouchsafed unto Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.

Think because of this verse, they assume anywhere it says not to make distinctions, it is only applying to the Jewish/Christian religions.... Yet then elsewhere, it also says that Allah has sent messengers to every nation.

 

[YmirGF]

Buddha didn't claim to be enlightened, he just helped show the way, and thus by leading the people to understanding, it was understood he was.

Already thinking about how to achieve it globally, just need to iron out a few points within religious disharmony.....Thinking we could establish Oneness as a universal religion, that was already there, we just didn't realize that is what all the ancestors have been leading us to.


Think because of this verse, they assume anywhere it says not to make distinctions, it is only applying to the Jewish/Christian religions.... Yet then elsewhere, it also says that Allah has sent messengers to every nation.

What you don't seem to appreciate, Wizzy, is that this is part of the well crafted ploy to insert Muhammad into an existing "prophetic" chain... hundreds of years after the fact. It is based on the presumption that THEY taught exactly what Muhammad was teaching. Any variations or deviations from Muhammad's words or actions clearly show areas that were corrupted since Muhammad and the Qur'an CANNOT be wrong. Got it? The amusing part is that we have no idea how the people highlighted in the passage would have reacted to Muhammad's slant on things. It's like if you were to claim that Jesus said and taught exactly what you are saying and that anyone who disagreed with you is also, by proxy, disagreeing with Jesus. Meanwhile, we have no idea what Jesus really would think and have to say about your claim.

 

[wizanda]

Meanwhile, we have no idea what Jesus really would think and have to say about your claim.

Well that is the question, i believe when we remove the lies, edits, corruption by looking at the bigger picture, we're left with an understanding of what they possibly did say....

Then by sticking to the evidence within each individual theological perspective, we can assess the beliefs accordingly...

Tho on spending years talking with religious people, there seems to be some comprehension problems, with many not differentiating their own theology in the process.

Think the difference is, if we take all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle, we can see how things fit together, whereas each religion only taking one piece of a larger puzzle, only has that perspective.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The sense Im getting is a "me vs them" feeling. Its not objective but more focused on the negative nature of the Bible (talking about Pau)) and seeing people, text, who/whatever missing the oneness you see. It disrupts the unity that you are talking about; contradiction.

Sorry, sometimes i think you have a deep understanding of the ancestors, and Heaven... Then sometimes I'm not sure.... Tho the Force is strong in you.

It depends on if you base this deep understanding on your definition of it or accept people see this deep understanding/oneness in differ views, languages, religions, and people. I dont believe in heaven. Oneness, to me, is a full connection with my ancesters, spirits, and full wisdom in mind and spirit. It is not metaphysical but a direct connection with people and the natural living world from the sun and moon to the rocks and sea. I have no other language (that is not a full essay) other than saying gratitude, wisdom, insight, and awareness. If Muslims dont see it that way, I dont deny them that they dont see it at all. Likewise with other faiths.

Its learning all of you guys spiritual and metaphysical terminology: spirit of the sun; oneness:spirit of god;consciousness;and so forth that blocks my understanding.

We are not aliens to each other.

My opinions are based on the text, and not their leaders interpretations, yet my own...Like in most religions, find what the original author instructed, is not what the masses follow

Makes sense

Moses created the Torah, and then Rabbinic literature has heavily influenced it...Yet as an X-Catholic you would think you should know this information.....Did you ever read the whole Bible?

I have read the full bible. A Jew told me here why should I expect that their Torah would be the same five books of the Christian Bible? Then it dawned on me, they have a different religion.

Older Catholicism and many churches still do not teach from the Bible. We learned through the sacraments, priests, saints, and Eucharist. I knew one lady who was surprised she could actually read her bible because for 40some odd years she was told not to.

Muhammad said all the messages, Abrahamic books are one, that is the whole point.... I'm just saying, why don't Muslims do that?

Why assume "some" dont? Thats my point.

 

[wizanda]

The sense Im getting is a "me vs them" feeling.

Nope, grown out of that ages ago.... Sorry for including the we statement, won't happen again.

Its not objective but more focused on the negative nature of the Bible (talking about Pau)) and seeing people, text, who/whatever missing the oneness you see. It disrupts the unity that you are talking about; contradiction.

Speaking about Heaven, Oneness, Spirituality is in someways a different topic to religion, so agree it is a contradiction.....

As for only seeing the negatives, didn't start that way, until i read it, and then realized how sinister it is.

So being alarmed that a whole world has been deceived, as prophesied, with it all fitting as predicted, does distract from the message of Oneness, yet it exists, and whilst i can, it is nobler to explain it to people whilst possible.

Why assume "some" dont? Thats my point.

Because you know how I'm one of the old members on here, like 12 years ago or so, been online meeting all religions in chat rooms, forums, etc, as my day job... So met loads, asked loads, and found most do (90%).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Don't mean to sound off, but thank you for acknowledging what you said and rewording it.

I haven't been on that long on RF, so I can see why you'd get that impression. In another view, outside of RF (unless you meet many Muslims in your immediate area?) I haven't met a Muslim who was not in touch with Oneness as so they define it. I see oneness connection with the mind and spirits. Abrahamics see Oneness in connection with God. Hinduism (from what I understand) see it in connection with Consciousness. All of these objectively speaking have their right place (they aren't totally off the mark like saying a car is a cat) in descibing Oneness regardless of how they call it.

From impression, it seems like your experiences and views of Muslims here is telling Muslims, as a whole, what they believe or don't believe and what they see and don't see according to their sacred text.

It's alright to have opinions. Have you thought off oneness as accepting your opposites positions in how they see Oneness even if it doesn't reflect how you see it?

I was talking to Quin about having multiple religions. I said that's like desccribing a whole pie by it's pieces. You are talking about the whole pie. Many religions are talking the pieces. Yet, even though they talk about each part of the whole (part of Oneness), by those pieces they (I don't know how for some) see the whole pie. I understand Abrahamics to an extend because their "pie" is God--the origin of All teachings no matter if it's Paul, Moses, or Muhammad all go back go God/the Creator.

In other words, they are seeing Oneness. Their method and definition of doing so may be foriegn or wrong; and that does not mean they are objectively wrong. That's why we have opinions.

So being alarmed that a whole world has been deceived, as prophesied, with it all fitting as predicted, does distract from the message of Oneness, yet it exists, and whilst i can, it is nobler to explain it to people whilst possible.

Well, all of us are distracted to one extent or another. Whether by our own religions, bias, experiences, worldviews, etc.. it still shapes how we view things... it takes unity out (even in part). What happens is we see unity in pieces and still claim we are one. It's alright to seek diversity; however, to say our distractions somehow make us ignorant to us finding solutions in our given faiths and/or moral is beyond my understanding.

Anyway,

I hope I'm not here for 12 years. What do you guys talk about when your aniverary comes up and you still talking about if God exists?

 

[Useless2015]

Heaven isn't full of the prophets, and messengers of God arguing over which book is best....

They're not busy trying to show how other messengers books are wrong, and corrupt or they're following the wrong God....

So why are Muslims, if they're trying to claim they follow Oneness (Tawheed)?

Do you think it would be possible for Muslims to accept Oneness is that God sent messengers to every nation, and that all messages are one; yet with the Quran as a criterion (a way in which to judge another source by) of what not to accept?

You see if Muslims accepted what the Quran is stating, that if Muslims understood where the errors were in the different religions, and could explain it humbly, and with evidence, then that would be a conduit for peace in the world i.e. Islam (submit to peace).

There are multiple statements within the Quran, that imply that was what was meant, that the true religion given by Muhammad, isn't another separatist religion, yet one to unify that which was broken.

I think all muslims would agree on the fact that Islaam is not a seperate religion. Even ISIS consider Christians as people who believe in the same God. So you are not saying anything new here.



Abu Hurairah narrated: Allah's messenger (pbuh) said, My similitude, in comparison with the other Prophets before me, is that of a man who has built a house nicely and beautifully, except for a place of one brick in a corner. The people go round about it and wonder at its beauty, but say: `Would that this brick be put in its place!' So I am that brick, and I am the last of the Prophets. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 4, Hadith No. 735)

 

[muhammad_isa]

Instead due to human ego, we've got a world on the brink of collapse...

Mmm .. the life of this world is a difficult test .. it's easy to say that you believe in God and righteousness, but not one of us is without sin.

The Quran reminds us that "mankind is violent in his love of wealth", and this is probably what is behind most of the DIVISION amongst us. People are tribal by nature and don't always see that religion does not belong to us .. it belongs to God!

 

[Godobeyer]

Yes, accept what it says; think Muhammad had knowledge in advance of many people's understanding, so was clearly guided in someway.....

Since he doesn't list the problems in the Bible, yet states many of the things I've found wrong with years of study.

God list main problem in the Bible " corrupted by humans" .
and list some details , like He never had a son, He not suppose to be, Jesus (pbuh) did not killed ...etc

Firstly you can never say all, as you don't know the hearts of all....

I don't your heart too , But it's would be very interesting if you bring me an single Muslim claim that he DON'T believe in Moses , and Abrahim and Jesus messages/Books (pbut) !!!

Secondly on speaking with many Muslims, many have no respect for the previous revelations; most haven't even read the Bible, let alone any other religious texts.

Then when asked why they don't, they will say they're corrupted, and some of the things within it they personally don't like, so they think it is rubbish....

I've only ever seen one Muslim based on what i read within the Quran, who was a doctor of theology on the Islam channel, he could clearly explain where many religions that some might think are polytheistic, are not, and it is a misunderstanding of their texts.

So just to clarify 'to believe in the previous revelations', you have to know them, which means reading, and studying them....

To be able to share 'where the fake religions are in error', you need to spend time questioning where the errors are, and again know the text....

Thus imagine if Muslims had done this throughout the history of Islam, the world would already be at peace, and the whole world would be following Islam, as it would be one religion with all the books as One.....

Instead due to human ego, we've got a world on the brink of collapse.

This is long reply and defeat my English leve

 

[wizanda]

I don't your heart too , But it's would be very interesting if you bring me an single Muslim claim that he DON'T believe in Moses , and Abrahim and Jesus messages/Books (pbut) !!!

So have you studied the Bible, since you believe in them?

 

[Godobeyer]

So have you studied the Bible, since you believe in them?

Torah and Gospel mentioned in Quran

Yes I (and ALL Muslims) believe in them both sent by God , but I believe both corrupted by humans .

 

[muhammad_isa]

Torah and Gospel mentioned in Quran

Yes I (and ALL Muslims) believe in them both sent by God , but I believe both corrupted by humans .

While that is true, I think the problem with "the people of the book" is that they do not take what IS in the Bible seriously enough. The corruption is not so much in the Bible as in organised religion. That can be said of the Muslims as well.

 

[wizanda]

Have you thought off oneness as accepting your opposites positions in how they see Oneness even if it doesn't reflect how you see it?

Don't get me wrong, I've got a vast understanding of the different forms of oneness people accept, and am open to questioning all ideas....

My point is the Quran uses the Oneness of God, and that meaning God is one, and his messengers one....

Thus when that is equal to my own understanding; I'm just asking can't Islam expand to accepting the whole pie, as the Quran says prophets will accept, yet why not the masses?

It's like if the prophets, messengers of Allah, accept all books are one, and have thus been deemed worthy by God; you'd think they'd work it out for themselves, they need to be the same as the messengers, and not make distinctions.

I see oneness connection with the mind and spirits. Abrahamics see Oneness in connection with God. Hinduism (from what I understand) see it in connection with Consciousness. All of these objectively speaking have their right place (they aren't totally off the mark like saying a car is a cat) in descibing Oneness regardless of how they call it.

Oneness is all the things you put above and more, within putting them all together, and not making distinctions we start to see how they fit together, rather then trying to find reasons they're apart......

Heaven (Oneness) exists in the middle of all reality, in a place of pure consciousness.

When people come together, under any central focal point Oneness if felt, so within that we feel Oneness here.

Within Hinduism they accept that there are many streams that lead to the ocean of consciousness, they're all different paths, yet they all eventually lead to the ocean, that is Oneness.

What do you guys talk about when your aniverary comes up and you still talking about if God exists?

Those questions circulate regularly, as do certain other topics that are futile, which is where I've been trying to undo the deception, to help people comprehend that it is causing much division.

You also become more refined in your answers, and understanding over time, hopefully becoming an asset to many or you just become a horrible snarky troll.

 

[LuisDantas]

While that is true, I think the problem with "the people of the book" is that they do not take what IS in the Bible seriously enough. The corruption is not so much in the Bible as in organised religion. That can be said of the Muslims as well.

Personally I think it is the other way around.

Organized religion has a duty to transcend the inherent limitations of its own scriptures. A duty that it often and tragically falls short of fulfilling.

Taking scripture seriously enough means, in effect, daring not to be bound by its letter and deciding what one's personal understanding of it is, which practical situations should consider which parts of it, and taking personal responsibility for how wise that application might have been or failed to be.

In short, I think revealed religion is something of a self-imposed dead end, and inherently more flawed when compared to Dharmic religion.

In case anyone here is interested, I elaborate some on it on http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...-quran-be-considered-the-perfect-book.183543/ (and thanks for the like, Wizanda!)