Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
And those who don't, as well.
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Why do people believe in religion?
- Thread starter Diederick
- Start date
linwood
Well-Known Member
I think the answer to your OP is that for many people the answer to the above quoted question is a resounding "YES"!
TheSunscientist
Bassist
There are a lot of reasons for religious beliefs.
Culture is a factor- Islam and Judaism hold a cultural element to them as well as a religious one. Many people who practice a religion will have been brought up in the culture of that religion.
Comfort when thinking about death/afterlife- the thought of an afterlife is a comfort and makes death and dealing with the death of family a lot easier. Churches/mosques/synagogues etc. can be a source of external help to someone.
Philosophical reasons- it's pretty much human nature to question why we're here, what happiness is etc. Religious beliefs can be of great help in explaining these kind of questions.
Social cohesion- organised religion can be a potent tool in social cohesion. Organised events and religious festivals allow a community to come together and for people to socialise/get to know each other, and for the purpose of routine- in many cultures events such as political elections or harvests were typically preceded by religious festivals.
Psychological- it is proven in scientific study that religious belief can be psychologically useful. Typically religious people have been proven to live longer, and suffer from less illness.
Culture is a factor- Islam and Judaism hold a cultural element to them as well as a religious one. Many people who practice a religion will have been brought up in the culture of that religion.
Comfort when thinking about death/afterlife- the thought of an afterlife is a comfort and makes death and dealing with the death of family a lot easier. Churches/mosques/synagogues etc. can be a source of external help to someone.
Philosophical reasons- it's pretty much human nature to question why we're here, what happiness is etc. Religious beliefs can be of great help in explaining these kind of questions.
Social cohesion- organised religion can be a potent tool in social cohesion. Organised events and religious festivals allow a community to come together and for people to socialise/get to know each other, and for the purpose of routine- in many cultures events such as political elections or harvests were typically preceded by religious festivals.
Psychological- it is proven in scientific study that religious belief can be psychologically useful. Typically religious people have been proven to live longer, and suffer from less illness.
Diederick
Active Member
You have begun to make so much more sense. I've quite misunderstood your viewpoint in the previous posts.
I care a lot for other people. It strikes me as bothersome that my post is labelled "hateful" by some folks, I really never had that intention; but like one of the four guys in The Four Horsemen said: "there's no easy, gentle way about telling someone they've wasted their lives on this [religion]." But I've already apologized for that. I don't hate religious people, I just think they can do better and be better. Surely not all religious people would be helped by being redeemed from it, but they generally don't visit this kind of forums.
If religion worked the best for everyone, I'd say let's all forget about reality and laod in with Jesus (or whichever figure to believe in, I like the Roman Gods, chiselled abs...). But it doesn't. And besides that, I simply can't stand people consciously pretending to understand less than they actually do or are capable of. It's such a waste of human potential. Perhaps I'm too "us" instead of "me and you", but that may be my vice. I care about other people and to me, religion seems to be much like a placebo, wholly depending on faith and praise of others to work its magic. But it is a placebo with a turnside, which placebo's aren't supposed to have - apart from fooling yourself. This explains why I'm not in favour of religion. I'd rather see the people who can mentally cope with such change, give up their fantasy and face reality with the rest of us so we can optimize the quality of life for as long as it lasts - seen the fact that it might - and if you'd ask me will - end when we stop breathing. Religion, as is, can't be called perfect. It doesn't work well enough for me, practically. And I think reality is the more practical alternative. Be it harder and less rosy.
I must seem like Ghandi gone Jihad...
No problem. I thought it was a dead give-away, Iwo Jima goes rainbow.
I guess this isn't that oversimplified at all.I think the answer to your OP is that for many people the answer to the above quoted question is a resounding "YES"!Originally Posted by Diederick
So to you it doesn't matter whether the interpretations you make are actually right, as long as they are right for you?
TheKnight
Guardian of Life
Nice post, but I must ask.
Why does it matter whether or not they "face reality"? If the outcome is the same, if you and that person are both working towards the same goal. Then why should either of you change what you believe?
This is, in a way, how Judaism sees things. There is a goal (a better world) that we must all strive to reach. If you believe one thing and I believe another, but we are both working towards that goal, then why should either of us change what we believe? What good does it do to face reality if the outcome is the same whether or not I believe in reality or fantasy?
I've always found it odd that the Rainbow is the symbol of the gay movement. I find it odd because it is also the symbol of The Noaic Covenant that God made with mankind.
"And the rainbow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.' "~Genesis 9:16
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I think some sort of religiosity may be hard-wired into our psyches.
Chimpanzees will sit for long periods, apparently transfixed, by a scenic vista. They'll do the same at a picturesque waterfall, often after initially tearing around in great excitement, to no apparent end.
What's going through their minds? If they had language and culture would they develop some religious mythology associated with Natural beauty?
Chimpanzees will sit for long periods, apparently transfixed, by a scenic vista. They'll do the same at a picturesque waterfall, often after initially tearing around in great excitement, to no apparent end.
What's going through their minds? If they had language and culture would they develop some religious mythology associated with Natural beauty?
richardlowellt
Well-Known Member
It would be itneresting to isolate a human from any know form of God from youth up and see what happens.[/QUOTE]
In the near future when science has answered all the unanswerable questions, created life, extended our lives so that we can achieve life spans lasting indefinitely, then no Gods will be needed, ancient superstitions will slowly fade, and God for the masses will be no more. Oh, I'm sure there will be the hangers on, spouting fire and brimstone , but they will be looked on as mentally deficient, there may even be a special place for them where they can continue their delusions and let the rest of mankind move on into the future.
In the near future when science has answered all the unanswerable questions, created life, extended our lives so that we can achieve life spans lasting indefinitely, then no Gods will be needed, ancient superstitions will slowly fade, and God for the masses will be no more. Oh, I'm sure there will be the hangers on, spouting fire and brimstone , but they will be looked on as mentally deficient, there may even be a special place for them where they can continue their delusions and let the rest of mankind move on into the future.
richardlowellt
Well-Known Member
richardlowellt
Well-Known Member
I've always found it odd that the Rainbow is the symbol of the gay movement. I find it odd because it is also the symbol of The Noaic Covenant that God made with mankind.
"And the rainbow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.' "~Genesis 9:16[/QUOTE]
I FIND IT ODD THAT ANYONE WOULD USE A RAINBOW AS A SYMBOL FOR ANYTHING GIVEN ITS THIS GODS APOLOGY FOR BEING SUCH A DEMON GOD IN SLAUGHTERING MILLIONS OF MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN AFTER LOSING HIS TEMPER. ARN'T WE ALL GLAD THAT THIS MYTHICAL STORY NEVER REALLY HAPPENED!
"And the rainbow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.' "~Genesis 9:16[/QUOTE]
I FIND IT ODD THAT ANYONE WOULD USE A RAINBOW AS A SYMBOL FOR ANYTHING GIVEN ITS THIS GODS APOLOGY FOR BEING SUCH A DEMON GOD IN SLAUGHTERING MILLIONS OF MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN AFTER LOSING HIS TEMPER. ARN'T WE ALL GLAD THAT THIS MYTHICAL STORY NEVER REALLY HAPPENED!
And you have never heard an argument where you know both parties are right or both are wrong, but you could not persuade either one to see the argument though the other persons eye, because both subjects are too stupid to change perspective from their own to that of the other?
Scott C.
Just one guy
True religion is the set consisting of all truth and no error. True science is the set consisting of all physical truth and no error. Science is therefore a subset of religion. True science belongs to true religion and one can't contradict the other. The physical proves the physical and the spiritual proves the spiritual. Both follow the same fundamental process. If you choose to believe only in what can be demonstrated by scientific means to the physical senses, then you reject the greater part of truth.
Diederick
Active Member
A good point. However; not facing reality to aid in this forward motion, but rather religion, in some ways brings unfortunate side-effects. People do silly things for religion, sometimes that involves shaking and lurching all over the church floor; rather innocently. But sometimes it makes other people unhappy, for example by hanging them, stoning them, throwing them off cliffs, cutting off body parts, or just by downright hatred. Commonly these people do not deserve it, from a secular perspective. In fact, child rapists tend to go unpunished in some religious settings.
This makes me a little uncomfortable and I would like it to stop.
So essentially, I'm okay with religion as long as it doesn't bother people; with urging them to join the club, or repent by extortion, or tell people they are bad because of some religious conviction - and everything worse than that. But I would like them to acknowledge, if they can, that it is not real, that it is just a tool to stay motivated.
The rainbow is used as a symbol of diversity. Seen that homosexuals are one of the few minorities that are still really threatened the gay movement (which is not an organization, just a group of people with similar intention) adopted it to be their flag.
I'm sure it has many different meanings to different people and in different religions.
Diederick
Active Member
I've had the same mind experiment, but the outcome is, of course, variable. I don't think the kid would come up with a religion, just a Deity. Another possibility is that the kid grows up without even thinking of a big sugardaddy in the sky. That last possibility would probably happen when the kid grows up in this world, but simply without all religions.
Well, people are rather stubborn. Most questions are already answered by science, and we can all give our own thought to the different theories surrounding physical cosmology, quantum mechanics and Abiogenesis, but the rest is pretty clear. Gods were never needed, unless it was for the purpose of control.
I don't let non-existent beings claim parts of my world. God may have claimed it before, but we (gay people) have claimed it back for our agenda. Now I don't think we'll find religious people (who are not gay) waving a rainbow flag any time soon. We've successfully owned the thing.
I'm glad there probably is no God.
Anti-thesisofreason
Explorer
Because your vision of a better world and my vision of a better world are probably ultimately different from one another and everything would go along much nicer if everyone believed and followed MY vision of a better world.
So you must drop your silly views of the world and take up my silly views of the world so we can achieve my . . . er . . . OUR now common goals for a better world. :drool:
jtartar
Well-Known Member
Diederick,
Much of what you have said is true, but one more reason ought to be mentioned.
The reason that all peoples, educated or ignorant, having association with other peoples or not, have religion in their ranks, IS, God put within man, when He created man, the desire to find, and learn about his maker. This is called Christian Existentialism. Mankind has a desire to worship something greater than himself!!
The Bible tells us exactly what faith is at Heb 11:1. The Bible also tells us that all people DO NOT have faith, 2Thes 3:2, that to please God we must have faith, Heb 11:6.
Anyone without faith has only this life to hope in. Faithful people have the hope of bing resurrected, if we die, into a paradise earth, with the opportunity to live forever, in peacefulness and happiness. It would therefore behoove everyone to study God's word and try to acquire faith. This is not just any faith, what saves a person is the faith in the Ransom Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, who died for every man who puts faith in his name, and obeys his commandments, John 14:21, John 1:29, Matt 20:28, Acts 4:12.
Incorrect, true religion is the constant search for truth as is true science. Two paths that must eventually lead to the one reality and that reality is, that the singularity, from which all things came into existence and to which all things must return, will be resurrected and burst forth in a later period of time and space to become a new universe.
Whether you call that singularity God, who said that he is calling all creation back to himself before creating a new heavens and earth=Universe, or whether you call it the primordial Atom of origin that becomes a living universal body in which intellectual mind developes, a mind that is capable of comprehending the mind that it is, and that each following universal body in the generations of the eternal cosmos must first bring to fruition the information in the seed from which it developed, before then preparing the seed for the generational body that will rise from the great and seemingly bottomless Abyss into which it must descend as it returns to it's origin.
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eclectic23
eclectic23
i believe that if you asked your questions with a little less bias you would probably get some pretty good answers here. i find that most people that are here have alot of questions, just like you. most people are here on rf because they dont follow religion blindly, but look for the input of others. the days of blind worship are dying. people are here to make their own paths and think for themselves. your talking to the wrong people when you claim ignorance of reality. is it ignorant to believe that you are the best thing that has happened in this universe? that there is nothing else to offer? you cant say that because nobody knows. you cant say that its all nonsence till you have done the research. there are so many different religions out there, old and new, mixing and sharing ideas. incorporating science in their beliefs. i think that alot of what you said is true, but not as common as you believe. when you see for yourself that religion is moving toward a more free thinking society you might flex on some of your views.
Don't worry mate, I know that religion is moving in a direction that will eventually align itself with the scientic veiw which will also then include the evolution of God who was in the beginning of this world which was the previous universal body that had become formless and void. And I, the developing Mind=Spirit within this body, have evolved and continue to grow (Evolve) on the spiritual food that others have prepared: food that I did not plant nor labour in the feilds of its growth, but food that I can freely harvest.
The nights and days of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that precedes the next creative day. The 6 days of creation as revealed in Genesis, are the 6 generations of this universe which evolved from lesser heavenly bodies.
Origen, who was well versed in the writings of Enoch, was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.
Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.
I longed to hear someone express the words I couldn't speak
Reveal to me the mysteries of life and her secrets
So I saught the men of science who claim god's body has no mind
They say the universe is living but will die one day in time
So then then men of piousness, with them I sat me down
But they claim God has no body those men in flowing gowns
Then finally In silent dream with he who is I Am
We floated on life's living stream with a pen held in my hand
'twas then the veil began to tear in the temple that is me
And in it's inner sanctuary, we saw the one that we will be. By S-word
I wrote that little poem when I was about 23, which would be 45 years ago now; that was when I was corrosponding with the Herbert W Armstrong movement, who put out a magazine called "The Plain Truth" an anti-evolution and pro-creationist magazine. Even then we were arguing about the Big Bang theory relative to the beginning of the creation through a process of evolution. No computers in those days, she was all corrosponding by mail, so don't think for one monent that the attempt to unify evolution with designed creation is a new thing.
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"True"? Yes, science is based on examining the universe that is presumably physical, otherwise any kind of objective inquiry into how the universe operates is doomed to failure. But science never insists on being without errors. That's the whole point of science: to observe the world and challenge previous assumptions as long as the evidence warrants it.
Not at all. The two have vastly different approaches to epistemology.
Science is based on observation, evidence, and inference; but religion doesn't have the built in mechanisms science does in filtering out unsubstantiated information. Science is repeateable or predictable, self correcting and amendable to new info' that may actually supplant a previous theory. How is religion anything like that?
There are hundreds of thousands of religions, and few actually accept the exact same revelation, doctrine, holy writ, etc. as religions other than theirs. Religions tend to be very provincial while science is applicable to anyone anywhere. Science is universal. There's nothing to even suggest science is anything like a subset of religion.