Why do people leave Christianity?

[halbhh]

suggests to me that you are just determined to go on believing whatever it is you want to believe, and you will not stop until you find a way to justify that belief.

It's very good when you have a judgement to put onto other people, to instead examine yourself about that very thing.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I did (and still do) burrow into Islam.

I should have added that I have nothing in particular against Christianity (no bad experiences or anything like that), or most other religions apart from the obvious bits.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I was on the ex Christian sub and lot of people there seem to have only surface level knowledge of Christianity meaning they were either mislead by false teachers or they never truly understood the doctrine. Why do you think some people, when they don't understand something, they keep digging until it makes sense? While others use it as an excuse to leave the religion altogether?

When I come across something I don't get, it makes me search harder for the truth, it doesn't make me turn my back on God.

I grew up Christian and explored becoming a Christian in my early twenties. I even became a born again Christian for a short period. Although I eventually chose the Baha’i Faith in my mid 20s I still feel strongly connected to Christianity and consider myself Christian at heart. Being a Baha’i empowers me to follow a less mainstream more inclusive version of Christian theology that resonates.

 

[filthyrottendirty]

I grew up Christian and explored becoming a Christian in my early twenties. I even became a born again Christian for a short period. Although I eventually chose the Baha’i Faith in my mid 20s I still feel strongly connected to Christianity and consider myself Christian at heart. Being a Baha’i empowers me to follow a less mainstream more inclusive version of Christian theology that resonates.

I should have clarified I don't even consider myself Christian lol. I follow Christ but mainstream Christianity has been compromised and filled with satanic lies.

 

[sealchan]

I was on the ex Christian sub and lot of people there seem to have only surface level knowledge of Christianity meaning they were either mislead by false teachers or they never truly understood the doctrine. Why do you think some people, when they don't understand something, they keep digging until it makes sense? While others use it as an excuse to leave the religion altogether?

When I come across something I don't get, it makes me search harder for the truth, it doesn't make me turn my back on God.

Perhaps it is because God turns His back on them...or the church misrepresents him....
Vatican says it will not bless same-sex unions, calling homosexuality a 'sin' and a 'choice'

Vatican says it will not bless same-sex unions, calling homosexuality a 'sin' and a 'choice' - CNN

The various churches dont seem to grow or grow fast enough. It is wilfull ignorance to believe that homosexuality is a choice. Wilfull ignorance at an institutional level is truly a moral corruption that speaks to the evil in the heart of that institution. Covering up child molestation is another example.

Does the good the church do outweigh the evil? It might if the church, as an institution were repentant and honest with its members.

 

[JustGeorge]

There is no God of Christianity, there is just the God Christians believe in.
The God Christians believe in is the one true God. Christians don't own that God, they just "believe" they do.

There have been many Manifestations of God and Jesus was "one" of them, but not the only one, as Christians believe.

I disagree, @Trailblazer .

The God I'm referring to is the God of the Abrahamic religions(not just Christianity, but you're right, some of them do want to lay claim to him). Yahweh, Jehovah, etc. I don't believe he is the one true God. I think he's just one manifestation of that absolute, along with the myriad of other Gods that have presented themselves over time.

I think he has attempted to present himself as the one true God, but that doesn't make me feel its true. I could go to an isolated village somewhere, and tell them all I'm the president of the US, but that wouldn't make it true. It doesn't mean I couldn't say it, though. And it doesn't mean the people I said it to might not believe it, and act on it.

To me, the Absolute God is formless, and without attributes. I believe that God has manifested as the different deities you have seen in different cultures at different times, relating to people and times as they need him/her/it to. However, I do believe one can obtain the formless God through worship of any of these(Jehovah included).

I don't think Jesus was God, either. Just a man. A very enlightened man, but mortal nonetheless.

(Please note these are all my personal beliefs, and I'm not trying to push them on anyone.)

 

[SigurdReginson]

I really believe that they want an excuse to ditch God and do whatever they want.

That really wasn't my case at all. What bothered me was how god was portrayed in the old testament vs. the loving and just Jesus I had come to know in the new trstament. I couldn't reconcile the things I felt were wrong that he was supposed to have done and accept those things as "good" simply because he's god (like what he commanded to happen to the Medianites, for what, revenge?). In looking deeper into the bible, I began to find other things that didn't sit right with me, and that's where the dominoes began to fall. God wasn't the problem, it was the religion.

When I left christianity, I left it for other similar monotheistic religions because I still wanted that close relationship to a loving and just god. Ultimately, though, I found that I was using that attachment to god as a crutch, and it was holding me back. In finally letting go, I've been able to become a much better version of myself.

Instead of becoming the passenger in my life with god as the driver, I became the driver.

I never left my faith so I could "do what I want," though. I made my way out because I love the truth, and I have to follow where that leads, even if it takes me to places I never expected to go.

Even though I've been out of the faith for years, too, I haven't sought after too many behaviors many of my former christian friends would find as "sinful." If anything, being the driver in my life has given me more of an understanding and appreciation in how the consequences of my actions influence my life, and the lives of others. In strengthening myself, I've been able to be a much more useful and positive influence to the people I've interacted with in life.

People aren't 2 dimensional caricatures who's lives can be dismissed in a couple sentences. We all have unique and different perspectives and motivations that take us through our own individual twists and turns in life. It isn't a black and white, good and bad, and hot and cold existence. Viewing it through that lens will give you an inaccurate representation of life. If the truth matters to us, we adjust our views when better information comes along.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In my opinion.

There are several types of converts. One are the most educated ones like scholars in religion, and there are many. Not most, but many.

Then you get uneducated converts. Yet of course, you get people who convert for social matters like partying a bit, a new girlfriend or boy friend, marriage, get-with it-crew etc. Nothing technical discussed here.

There are also people who genuinely found leaving is the only option with greatest difficulty due to reason.

Well. Thats what I feel. Thus, I dont know if anything could be generalised.

What appears to be most astounding is that most of the disciples, those that first except the past Messengers, are usually uneducated and a Spiritual bond is the key.

Personally, I see that is the only lasting bond, and the only bond that makes a person a scholar.

The point being made here is, that any Christain Scholar that has not embraced Muhammad, can be seen as void of spiritual enlightenment, as the Essence of the Bible is also Found in Muhammad and the Quran, wheras an uneducated person who has embrace Muhammad in the Spirit of Faith and practiced the Faith, has found the Essence of both the Bible and Quran.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't think Jesus was God, either. Just a man. A very enlightened man, but mortal nonetheless

I see that is exactly why there are seen to be many God's.

God does not descend into creation. As such God sends Messengers who are men that walk amongst us. There have been thousands of such men and each gives us a Message of the vastness of God.

Over time, if we choose not to put these stories together, to see the big picture as one, then we will see the many God's.

If we choose to put these stories together, we start finding the connections and we start finding our oneness in our own humanity.

All the best, regards Tony

 

[JustGeorge]

God does not descend into creation. As such God sends Messengers who are men that walk amongst us. There have been thousands of such men and each gives us a Message of the vastness of God.

There have been many messengers, though some bring different messages. And you're right, each brings us a bit of a different picture. But none are incorrect(I'm sure you know the blind men and the elephant story).

I do believe in different Gods(as a manifestation of the Absolute). And I believe there is a difference between the messengers and the Gods. Messengers, to me, have found a piece of truth to share. A deity is a direct manifestation of an aspect of God. You see these more so in the ancient cultures or in nature based religions.

Over time, if we choose not to put these stories together, to see the big picture as one, then we will see the many God's.

If we choose to put these stories together, we start finding the connections and we start finding our oneness in our own humanity.

All the best, regards Tony

Overall, I believe all to be a manifestation of the same divinity. However, some aspects appeal more to certain people, and at certain times. I'm the same 'me' if you were to wake me up at 6am, as if you were to visit when I was awake and happy at 1pm, but I guarantee you would like much better the calm and friendly person at 1pm as opposed to the unfriendly and temperamental person you'd encounter at 6am. (Unless, of course, you like shouting and snarling... I'm not a morning person.)

 

[Trailblazer]

I disagree, @Trailblazer .

The God I'm referring to is the God of the Abrahamic religions(not just Christianity, but you're right, some of them do want to lay claim to him). Yahweh, Jehovah, etc. I don't believe he is the one true God. I think he's just one manifestation of that absolute, along with the myriad of other Gods that have presented themselves over time.

I don't believe that God has a name so I do not believe that Yahweh, Jehovah, etc. is the one true God. I believe that those names are just what some people chose to call God back when the Old Testament was written.

I do not believe that there is more than one God because to me that is illogical, but we all have different perspectives of what the word "God" means and what He has for attributes. Since I believe that God is All-Powerful, All-Knowing and All-Wise I see no need for more than one God, and it would create many problems if there was more than ONE God with those attributes.

 

[Trailblazer]

To be clear, I believe that God has presented Himself in many ways over time, but it was the same God each time, showing up in different attire with a different message, a message that suited the needs of humanity in those times.

I agree with all of the above, except one thing, so I would restate it as follows:

To me, the Absolute God is formless, and without attributes. I believe that God has manifested as the different Messengers you have seen in different cultures at different times, relating to people and times as they need him/her/it to

I have a problem with the Baha'i belief that God has certain attributes such as loving, just, forgiving, merciful, etc. because I don't believe we can know these things about God, since God is unknowable Baha'u'llah said that God is above all His attributes which to me means we cannot assign attributes to God.

 

[Deeje]

Now why should one keep digging until something makes sense? What if ultimately it doesn't make sense? At what point is it acceptable to abandon the digging because you realise it is fruitless?

I believe that is the point where God leaves you.....people may think that they have left God by leaving Christianity, but some find God by leaving Christendom...the two should never be confused.
There is one truth and it is up to us to find it....only then will God come into our lives. (John 6:44; 65)

At Matthew 13:3-9, Jesus gave a striking illustration that tells us exactly who we are in God's eyes....all of us will fit into one of these categories....

"....“Look! A sower went out to sow. 4 As he was sowing, some seeds fell alongside the road, and the birds came and ate them up. 5 Others fell on rocky ground where there was not much soil, and they immediately sprang up because the soil was not deep. 6 But when the sun rose, they were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Others fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them. 8 Still others fell on the fine soil, and they began to yield fruit, this one 100 times more, that one 60, the other 30. 9 Let the one who has ears listen.”

So which "soil" are we? God knows but perhaps we can fool ourselves?

2 Chronicles 15:2...
"...Jehovah is with you as long as you remain with him; and if you search for him, he will let himself be found by you, but if you abandon him, he will abandon you."

That is the reality.....

 

[Trailblazer]

So which "soil" are we? God knows but perhaps we can fool ourselves?

That's right, and Baha'u'llah explained why we cannot fool God and why we can fool ourselves.

“Consider, moreover, how frequently doth man become forgetful of his own self, whilst God remaineth, through His all-encompassing knowledge, aware of His creature, and continueth to shed upon him the manifest radiance of His glory. It is evident, therefore, that, in such circumstances, He is closer to him than his own self. He will, indeed, so remain for ever, for, whereas the one true God knoweth all things, perceiveth all things, and comprehendeth all things, mortal man is prone to err, and is ignorant of the mysteries that lie enfolded within him….” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 186

 

[Trailblazer]

2 Chronicles 15:2...
"...Jehovah is with you as long as you remain with him; and if you search for him, he will let himself be found by you, but if you abandon him, he will abandon you."

That is the reality.....

You are batting 1000 today Deeje.... This verifies that the Bible is the Word of God that is repeated in every age.
Baha'u'llah wrote something very similar, referring to how God will forget those who have ignored His Presence and rejected His signs in His Day.

“We perceive none, however, amongst the people of the earth who, sincerely yearning for the Truth, seeketh the guidance of the divine Manifestations concerning the abstruse matters of his Faith. All are dwellers in the land of oblivion, and all are followers of the people of wickedness and rebellion. God will verily do unto them that which they themselves are doing, and will forget them even as they have ignored His Presence in His day. Such is His decree unto those that have denied Him, and such will it be unto them that have rejected His signs.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp.256-257

 

[Deeje]

That really wasn't my case at all. What bothered me was how god was portrayed in the old testament vs. the loving and just Jesus I had come to know in the new trstament. I couldn't reconcile the things I felt were wrong that he was supposed to have done and accept those things as "good" simply because he's god (like what he commanded to happen to the Medianites, for what, revenge?). In looking deeper into the bible, I began to find other things that didn't sit right with me, and that's where the dominoes began to fall. God wasn't the problem, it was the religion.

Thank you for sharing your story....

I too wondered about those stories, but when I realized what circumstances they occurred in, I understood why God took the actions that he did under those circumstances.

For example.....when Israel was in the throes of being liberated from their harsh slavery in Egypt, God brought 10 plagues that afflicted the Egyptians. Each time the plague was halted by God when Pharaoh promised to let his people go....and then he reneged and refused to honor his word. This happened 10 times....but from the very first action that God took, Pharaoh could have prevented what happened to his own people.....pride prevented him from following through...after all, Pharaoh was considered a god, and to become subservient to what they considered to be an inferior god wasn't a good look. Each of those plagues however was designed to humiliate one of Egypt's many gods, none of whom came to their rescue.
The final plague was to strike Pharaoh right where it hurt him the most.....his firstborn son and heir was executed by Jehovah along with all the other firstborns.....this son would have become Egypt's next King and deity.

God saved his own people, but he did so by providing explicit instructions on how to avoid that calamity themselves. Had they not followed through on those instructions, they too would have lost their firstborn. The Passover was then celebrated from that time onward to commemorate that event. It also provided a lesson in obedience. Israel had the example of Noah in that regard as well. Had Noah failed to carry out all the instructions that he had been given, he would not have survived the flood either. (Matthew 24:37-39)

Do you understand the reasoning behind God's actions in demonstrating in a very powerful way, his own superior godship compared to the false gods worshipped by the Egyptians? Who was behind those false gods? Wasn't it God's arch enemy....the "wannabe" god in Eden?

In other instances, God did the same thing in showing the superiority of his godship by humiliating the gods in whose name these people came against Israel. In each instance he showed their gods up to be completely inept...and in turn showing the devil to be inferior and useless as a god.

When Jesus came, the Jews were dispersed all over the place, and they were dominated by Gentile nations. His people were under the influence of apostates and he showed them up to be what they truly were. (Matthew 23) There was no longer a physical territory to protect because Israel's soil was occupied by another nation. Jesus was careful to steer his apostles and disciples away from conflict with the Romans.

It was now time to gather the rulers who would aid Christ in the administration of his Kingdom, which would be established in heaven, but ruling over subjects on earth. The time for demonstrations of power were now confined to more positive things....like healing the sick, teaching about the benefits of the coming Kingdom, peacemaking, neutrality in political matters, and how to love each other and in time to embrace people they once considered enemies.....this was a new message...and a new arrangement because the death of Christ was going to change the entire landscape....and institute a new covenant....one that had been prophesied in Jeremiah. (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Instead of becoming the passenger in my life with god as the driver, I became the driver.

And if you look back to the events in Eden, the first humans fell for the same lie.....we are not designed to be the drivers in our own lives. God put us here on planet Earth for a reason....and it was not to please ourselves. We were to be the permanent caretakers of God's creation, and having been endowed with God's qualities, we would take care of everything with the same care and loving attention as God himself would....forever. Doesn't nature itself teach you about God's qualities and his desire for perfection and beauty. But the rebellion in Eden needed to be dealt with in such a way as to created precedents for all time to come.....that way there would never be a need to challenge God's rightful Sovereignty over his material creation ever again.

Even though I've been out of the faith for years, too, I haven't sought after too many behaviors many of my former christian friends would find as "sinful." If anything, being the driver in my life has given me more of an understanding and appreciation in how the consequences of my actions influence my life, and the lives of others. In strengthening myself, I've been able to be a much more useful and positive influence to the people I've interacted with in life.

God never said he was going to save just "good" people. We have to be "good" but we also have to be obedient to God's commands. The commandments of greatest value Jesus said were "to love God with our whole heart, mind and strength....and to love our neighbor as ourselves"....
To fulfill the second requirement without the first, makes it redundant. Our first obligation is to our Creator who has the right to tell us how to live the life he gave to us. We can love him only if we really know him and understand why he has done things the way he has throughout our existence here.....there is a goal, and that is to return to us to what we lost in the beginning....everlasting life in paradise on earth......but not everyone will make the right choices so as to benefit from the object lesson to which we have all been subjected. Our own free willed choices dictate our future according to the scriptures.

If the truth matters to us, we adjust our views when better information comes along.

Sometimes that "better information" was there with us all along, but someone presented a distorted version of it and we failed to see the value of it....even being repelled by it.

Bible study was the only solution for me.....thorough, deep and open minded study that doesn't take things at face value, but looks at the deeper nuances and circumstances of the time period to help to evaluate WHY God did something the way he did. This does not them force us to jump to wrong conclusions about what we read....but to dig deeper and see what God will reveal to us if we include him in our searches. Genuine seekers find....that has been my experience.

 

[paarsurrey]

I really believe that they want an excuse to ditch God and do whatever they want. And you are right.....so many who ditch the faith have limited knowledge in the first place. They make their decisions on half baked notions and when the answers to their questions are not forthcoming, they quit.



I am like you...if I can't find the answer to my questions, I will keep digging until I do....all the while asking for God's help to solve the puzzle. He has never let me down. I have answers to all my questions by deep personal study and prayer. No one can tell me that there is no God.....he is the most important person in my life who guides and directs every decision I make.

Finding out the big picture was the biggest revelation for me. Everything fits.....everything....the Bible is one story from Genesis to Revelation.

Deeje said : " I am like you...if I can't find the answer to my questions, I will keep digging until I do ....all the while asking for God's help to solve the puzzle."

It is the fault of the "Pauline-Christianity", I understand. Paul (together with his associates and the Church) crafted faulty creeds that:

1. Jesus s/o Mary died a cursed death on the Cross (with no reliable eyewitness to narrate it)
2. to lift the burden of the sins of the sinful Christians including Paul and the disciples and or the Apostles
3. Jesus s/o Mary rose from the dead, (it is a false concept), as he did not die on the Cross to start with, (it was crafted to make Jesus God, which is not true).
4. And then Jesus s/o Mary secretly traveled to Galilee (a wrong pretext, if Jesus s/o Mary was God then he needed not to move about secretly)
5. and from Galilee Jesus s/o Mary ascended to the skies (another incorrect claim, if Jesus was God he would have ascended to skies right from Golgotha where he was put on the Cross)
6. (What facility is there in Galilee that made it easier for Jesus to ascend to sky from Galilee that was not available in Golgotha)
7. And Jesus sat on the right hand of God-the-Father and the spectators saw him seated (none mentioned by names with other verifiable antecedents of them)
8. (And none of them mentioned as to how long did they see Jesus in the sky and then he disappeared from the sky, and why can’t the Pauline-Christians see him now seated there.)

Right?
It is for these wrong creeds that Christians are becoming Atheists as we see in the Pew survey reports. Right?
Why not to correct these creeds so that people remain with Religion and believer of Jesus, please? Right?
Howsoever one digs into these creeds, these will remain wrong, please.
Kindly correct me with reasons if I am not correct, please. Right?

Regards

 

[Deeje]

You are batting 1000 today Deeje.... This verifies that the Bible is the Word of God that is repeated in every age.
Baha'u'llah wrote something very similar, referring to how God will forget those who have ignored His Presence and rejected His signs in His Day.

“We perceive none, however, amongst the people of the earth who, sincerely yearning for the Truth, seeketh the guidance of the divine Manifestations concerning the abstruse matters of his Faith. All are dwellers in the land of oblivion, and all are followers of the people of wickedness and rebellion. God will verily do unto them that which they themselves are doing, and will forget them even as they have ignored His Presence in His day. Such is His decree unto those that have denied Him, and such will it be unto them that have rejected His signs.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp.256-257

You do understand that Baha'u'llah was a late comer and that all these things were already in the Bible...? Whose ideas were they really?

 

[Trailblazer]

You do understand that Baha'u'llah was a late comer and that all these things were already in the Bible...? Whose ideas were they really?

Better late than never.
These ideas were God's ideas.

Yes, all the spiritual truths that Baha'u'llah revealed were in the Bible; He even said so in the Preamble to The Hidden Words.

Preamble

HE IS THE GLORY OF GLORIES

This is that which hath descended from the realm of glory, uttered by the tongue of power and might, and revealed unto the Prophets of old. We have taken the inner essence thereof and clothed it in the garment of brevity, as a token of grace unto the righteous, that they may stand faithful unto the Covenant of God, may fulfill in their lives His trust, and in the realm of spirit obtain the gem of Divine virtue.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 3

But we needed Baha'u'llah to bring these spiritual truths to remembrance:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

And we needed Baha'u'llah reveal what will be needed for humans to build the Kingdom of God on earth.

 

[Deeje]

I agree that the way Christianity was usually presented often betrayed an extremely superficial and polemical understanding of the tradition. Which in turn laid the groundwork for my later embracing of Christianity.

In my experience, it was the Christendom's lack of knowledge of the deeper things that confused me. I am a questioner and always have been....my many questions went unanswered, and "I dunno" was not good enough. So in leaving Christendom, I never left God or the Bible, having deep respect for both. I just wanted to feel as if God was present in more authentic ways that the architecture or the emotional appeals. I saw all of Christendom basically teaching the same sad lies under different banners. I agreed with all the reasons why Protestantism had rejected many of the more unscriptural Catholic doctrines, but it still retained the core beliefs that took it off the path of the truth in the beginning. I was looking for the God of Jesus Christ....but he was nowhere to be found in Christendom.

But I think Christians share a large portion of the blame. Surveys have shown that most American Christians are confused on even the basic fundamentals of Christian doctrine. My own country Australia is almost certainly no better.

Australia is one of the most secular nations on the planet.....unlike America people don't even pretend to be Christians here. To rock up to someone's door to talk about Jesus Christ is often met with blank stares of disbelief....or a response like "what do you want?" Then when they realize you want to talk about religion...its a case of talk to the hand and shut the door. To make a conversation relevant, we have to talk about what concerns them on a daily basis, not religion.

Americans I find are mostly "Christian" in name only, and mainly for appearances, otherwise the televangelists would be out of a job. I don't think Jesus would have a bar of that stuff.....or the money demanded to finance their opulent lifestyle. Jesus advocated a modest lifestyle and some actual legwork to interact with the people they shared the message with. Covid has put the brakes on that somewhat but the message is still out there....

For once I agree with you Deeje. I think there is a lot of more of that than many will admit.

That for many the real motivation to reject Christ is a distaste for some aspect of the moral law, usually in regards to sex.

True...the churches who water down God's word to keep their flocks will soon see that God's morality is not negotiable. God's standards are set in concrete and no one is going to dictate their own moral standards (or lack of them) to him.
His stance has always been...to 'hate the sin but not the sinner', in the hope of drawing them back to his righteous standards...especially when you see the results of ignoring them. Immorality has been the cause of marriage breakdowns and feelings of betrayal and mistrust. It feeds domestic violence and exposes children to fractured families and false ideas about what the role of a parent is supposed to be. We have gender for a specific purpose that is very obvious and now it is questioned....Why? What kind of nonsense is this?

The modern culture is increasingly opposed to the moral vision of the Gospel. Given that, I think it is harder to be a Christian these days than it was in the past. To be a serious Christian in the modern culture is to increasingly put yourself at odds with what is 'respectable' opinion. And it's only going to get more overt in the near future.

Things can only get worse as we see the erosion of all the standards that we once took for granted....no "mother or father" no gender identifying labels or things that set the sexes apart for their purpose here.
The world has indeed gone mad...and I believe this is the beginning of the end of life as we know it on this planet....God will step in and say...."ENOUGH!!"

It can't come quick enough for my liking.....I heard someone say once, that "when the living envy the dead, its time for the world to end"....I think that is why the Bible says it must come to that.